Nietzsches prime benefit is that he umasks the psychology of the priestly type.

This type being a malevolent duplicitous class whose aim
Is political power over the masses. By using general morality and law as a cover for their machievellian statecraft.

His best books are twilight of the idols,beyond good and evil and the genealogy of morality.

His will to power notes are also very good,but seem to be unedited or not fully completed for publication.

In the anti christ are many good insights,but his reading of Christianity,buddhism, and jesus are nonsense.

He gets way too shrill and distorts his good work.

Some bits of the antichrist are hilarious.

Nietzeche was an aristocratic Elitist who wanted some kind of new rule by purposely breed ubermensch.

Did he not know that this has always been the case anyway and royalty even now rules politics?

Nietzsche for all his great psychological insights and insight into language is very naive and idealistic.

@Olivier5
Glad to hear that!

I would say life is axiomatic. It is a given. And has always existed.

@Olivier5
You are assuming wrongfully that life comes from matter.

You are making an unnecessary distinction between life and concious thinking. Life is concious thinking.

Yet again another debate going nowhere.

Mainly because 180 is overemotional and dogmatic,and doesn't engage with any charity.

To be Frank,substance dualism is unassailable and self evident.

There is life and there is matter. They mix but neither can be derived from the other.

Confusion results from suggesting the mind is non physical...Of course mind is physical. Mind is desire,and desire is physical. But not everything physical is inorganic material.

Next time any materialists see a block of steel desire a sandwich call me...

Just Read "Moses and monotheism".

A tremendous read. The best book by freud I've read so far.

Shows how Judaism emphasises intellectuality,and what freud thinks have been and are the benefits of Jewish monotheism.

He claims the origin of religion,Law and modern culture is from the murder of a despotic father and regicide,and the subsequent guilt.

Freuds various psychological theories are cheekily used to explain the progression of history and culture.

The thing about this book is not the conclusions but the avenues for exploration and elucidation.

@Wayfarer
As 180 would do. :up:

@Kaveski
Be patient,try to get out and meet people in real life.

I would say be careful about opening yourself up emotionally online. There are many trolls and nasty people online. Also many impatient dogmatic people.

In general look after your health,nutrition,exercise.
And don't overthink or worry too much.

The fact your trying this hard will alert your Soul Family that you are calling them.

Good luck,and take care.

@NOS4A2
OK,so speaking can be powerful?

So spoken words do have effects.

@NOS4A2
Oration is speech.

If you consider oration powerful then?

The oration is speech. Speech is an act. Speech is powerful.

What are you thinking here?

Just finished "totem and taboo".

A very interesting four essays in this book. Freuds obsession with his concept of the oedipus complex is on full display here.

He spends most of the book trying to prove that religion,culture,history and politics are all the result of the oedipus complex and a murder of a dictatorial father by his sons to gain access to his women!

His research of anthropologists like frazer illustrates how racist,clueless and dirty minded those old academics were in studying other cultures.

Essay 3 is a corker. A great piece of psychology,though once again used as propoganda.

Every criticism freud has of indigenous tribes and neurotics also applies to freud!

Freud really knew his neurotics! That's because he was one!

Next up; moses and monotheism. Promises to be a great read. Was freuds last cultural work before he died.

@Jack Cummins

@SteveMinjares
One can become better under pressure by meditation and sports. Competitive but fair endeavours.

@SteveMinjares
Television has glamourised the so called psychopath and mythology has told us they feel no emotions.

This is pure fairytale. These people feel fear,in fact more than other people because they know that they have the potential to be caught.

What they are good at it projecting a dramatic scary persona and being greedy and manipulative.

Eventually with the right gang or circumstances they can be ruthless.

Yes,they really get things done in groups. Because in groups they are good at evading responsibility,manipulating and blaming others.

The majority of politicians and big businessmen are like this.

These people are "successful" through manipulating fear.

I've met them,and worked in psychiatric wards,so know from experience.

If you want an example of psychos observe hilary Clinton and trump in their behaviours and lies and watch them gloat over peoples misfortune,bully and boast.
Narcissism,bullying and psychopathy are the same.

@Manuel
Just a quick comment and I will probably post a fuller reply later.

The reluctance to say in daily life that one is certain is a sure sign of too much philosophy and overthinking.
,

Which one?
Religion is still very much alive.

Just finished reading freuds "new introductory lectures on psychoanalysis".

An excellent summary of freuds work.

All freuds value as a thinker and writer are on display here.
His value as a social critic is exceptional.

In the area of sexuality and women freud is a procrustean clown. A real idiot.

But as a critic of organised religion and culture he is way better than nietzsche and marx.

But freud the myth maker,the illusionist,the propagandist is on full display reading between his lines.

One must psychoanalyse the psychoanalyst...

@tim wood
Many facts are subjective.
Much of science is speculative nonsense, witness many worlds theory and the big bang.

@180 Proof
At this point your like a parrot of cliches and well worn out tropes.
Ranting is not truth or wisdom.

@tim wood
There is nothing to get.
You are a narrow minded bigot and pretentious.

@tim wood
Problem is what standard of evidence do you uphold?

All I see from you is impatience,defensiveness,pedantry and finally ad homineum.

Your analogies and badgering are terrible.

Fact is you can't refute 3017 and thus you resort to emotionality and nonsense.

@3017amen
Of course. No rush. In your own time.

@3017amen
It does help...But continue. This is very interesting!

@tim wood
I don't need your selective quotes. I have followed and read the whole debate.

I also have read numerous posts from all three of you.

Wishful thinking Tim.
You and 180 are habitually debating emotionally and selectively. You can't wish religious feelings and truths away Tim. Nor can you logic them away. Your and 180s failure illustrates this clearly. Instead of just being a critic give us YOUR worldview.

It's easy to pick holes in words Tim,why don't you be constructive instead?

@tim wood
I'm afraid your facts are fictions. Generated by wish fulfillment.

@3017amen
1)The existential psychology/philosophy of religion.
(Like William James varieties of religious experience)

2)Religion and continental philosophy.
(Their connections)

3)Platonism and religion.

@3017amen
Excellent! You should post your views to my thread or start some psychology and continental philosophy threads to get some decent discussions going!

@3017amen
It's not really my thread type. I'm asking because I couldn't quite understand what you said in that last paragraph.

I'm more a psychology thread type of guy!

@tim wood
I am my standard of truth and all who make sense.
You do not make sense on this issue.

Seems to me you have a habit of demanding proof after proof for non sequitur reasons. And yet,said proofs don't mean much to you.
What is your standard of truth tim? A moderator?!

I followed the debate myself,I don't need your interpretations tempered with emotionality.
You should calm down and stop being so trigger partisan.

@3017amen
Yes,that is what I saw in your opening debate post and its a pretty solid case,as standard logic breaks down at the practical ultimate level.

Could you clarify on the last paragraph of your post,platonism and structures/maths?

@tim wood
And? Is a moderator the standard for truth? I know what I see.
Lies! Just listen to your rhethoric!

@tim wood
Well,it's obvious to me. Difference is I keep level headed about you disagreeing with me. And I don't demonise people just for a disagreement.

@3017amen
If I read you correctly are you saying standard logic cannot prove things like conciousness and time which are obviously real,therefore the concept of God is like the reality of time and conciousness,and doesn't follow standard logic?

@tim wood
I have read posts on this forum for years before I joined,so I've read plenty of all three on this thread.

The recent debate was disappointing overall,but I blame

180 as he refused to engage because he knew he wasn't going to win. He's just too emotional and narrow minded.

If you two actually discussed properly with 3017 it would be good. I was looking forward to the debate.

Prove me wrong by debating with civility and style.

@3017amen
I think both guys are searching for truth and you show your the bigger man by giving them olive branches.

One is not a philosopher or psychologist If one doesn't engage in a genuine existential critique of religion. Angry rants don't count!

And if you search for truth you will find divinity. Even if you find the divine is the human soul.

@tim wood
I have watched the interactions closely,I trust my own judgement.
You are over emotional,as is 180.

Reread your post to 3017 about people of the lie and such like. That is some serious overemotional venting brother!

If you like rationality then what's with the vitriol and nonsense?

@3017amen
Ah,that keats quote is one of my favourites!

I don't mind the god bless as its the intention that counts.

My views on god are unusual.
Materialism,however or philosophy without spirituality is a dud!

And yes definately more moderates needed in religion and elsewhere. But politics and institutions I have no faith in!

To me religion/spirituality/philosophy is personal/existential.
As you say,all else is vanity and fumbling!

@Ross Campbell
Humans are creatures of desire and emotion.

Rationality is an idealisation of control. A method to try to
make nature "safe" and conceptual...

So I think the ideal of rationality is aspirational. But a false,unreachable and decadent aspiration.

@3017amen
I think you do a pretty good job on this forum.

There are very few existentialist religious people who post their views.

In fact,I do enjoy the angry atheist types getting all riled up with your calmness humour and your interesting observations.

I don't agree with all your views,but I appreciate your calm.

Your two main protagonists are essentially philosophical meatheads with anger issues.

From the outside its obvious who is closer to the truth,and it ain't those two!

@RoadWarrior9
Your first two are very similiar to what I have,except I'm not a recluse,but a Family man to the core.

I would have a third which is Courage. The courage to compete with oneself and to grow,nurture and be creative.

@waarala
It seems a lot of continental philosophers are interested in freud,whether affirmative or critical.

My interest is that his thinking is important to critique as of all the cultural thinkers who wrote,his ideas encompass
culture most fully and existentially.

For sure freud was a bourgeois propagandist and Elitist,but his influence is palpable through politics,culture and advertising,via the use of his work by his nephew Edward Bernays and others who updated and used these principles.

And in truth freud was not at all the discoverer of this type of psychology,but he was a cipher used to publicise this method.

The fact his work is neglected in mainstream culture nowadays is a testament that the powers that be don't want this narrative back out in the open again.Because these powers and the media use his psychological principles extensively.
@Joshs You may have some useful comments on this subject area.

Freud;
1) new introductory lectures on psychoanalysis.
2) totem and taboo.
3) moses and monotheism.

With these three books one has good ammunition and a great insight into the mindset of propagandists on the left and right,religious or secular.

Freuds nephew Edward bernays made a career disseminating capitalist and consumerist propoganda by mastering the principles of his uncles work.

Counter the evil of capitalism and communism!
Know thy enemy!

@Echarmion
That child understood that all regressions of intention and actions end in a will,a want to.

And though matter does not have will,it also ends as itself.
Translation; Will and matter/energy are eternal and dynamic.