@Jack Cummins
I don't believe the oedipus complex literally,and I believe freud,as on many concepts,was too dogmatic.

With that said,and this is why I really enjoy reading his ideas,there is a related reality to what he was trying to describe.

My take is that he wrongly interpreted the phenomenon of the ambivalence of people towards authority figures.
Nothing to do with sexuality really,but power.

With all of freuds stuff I verify with my personal experience.

@Jack Cummins
What you say about klein is very interesting. I think a lot of "sane" people experience a schizoid anxious type of awareness and project "masked" personalities.

What's your reading of the oedipus complex?

The hypocrisy of a lot of civility is obvious.
Political civility is gaslighting.

However,that said,political groups and so called "rebels" will only use this article as an excuse to be dicks.

@Corvus
His book Totem and taboo,
And his new introduction to psychoanalysis are both extremely good.
Freud wrote a lot of stuff!
I think a lot of people don't engage with freud sometimes for the reasons you mentioned,but people should at least know the crux of his basic stuff and the crux of his cultural writings.

@Corvus
I must say that I do find freuds emphasis on sexuality incorrect.

But his notion of libido if interpreted as desire makes his thinking much more accurate.

I read somewhere that freud said people understand his theories too crudely.

And maybe he adjusted his thinking on literal sexuality as he progressed.

For me freud has many mistakes in his thinking,but he gets a lot of the basics correct.

With his mistakes I reinterpret his literal meanings to accord with my own experiences.

My saying freud is the most important thinker to grapple with is because he is right in so many things,yet wrong in a lot of things as well.

But he,unlike most thinkers,addresses the most important issues in a practical realist way.

@Kasperanza
When you say freud wasn't scientific,could you elucidate?

Because his ideas were obviously based on and backed by extensive hands on clinical practice with real clients.

@Jack Cummins
What about jung on religion do you find beneficial?

Projection is a very interesting concept,but I think it's used incorrectly.

Guilt,taboo,anxiety and the "super ego" are interesting pointers in freuds thought.

What about Klein do you find instructive?

I really like Jaques lacans analysis that the unconscious is structured like a language.

@Wayfarer
The second Essay of that collection is called "dreams and the occult".

@Wayfarer
Freuds book "new introduction to psychoanalysis" is seven essays. One of the essays contains talk about telepathy. It's free online.

@Wayfarer
In freuds later work he talks about telepathy.

In the modern day of science this is taboo. Witness the treatment of Rupert sheldrake.

@Noble Dust
I have heard of people with religious beliefs opposed to projection who experienced these things when in a very emotional situation, but not being able to experience these things as a practice.

Sleep paralysis is a very emotional experience and triggered due to trauma,sometimes from childhood.

In some situations belief matters not. But for sustained practice it does.

A lot of religious or materialistic atheists can't do this at will because of limiting beliefs.
Belief is key.

@Noble Dust
Well the belief that you can make it happen is all that is needed. Are you regarding belief as a metaphysics?

@Noble Dust
Well,the prime thing is you must be determined enough to believe and practice with intense desire.

Only if your metaphysics disbelieves in the possibility of projection could there be a problem.

@Noble Dust
I think if you just focus and have faith in your ability to project that will be enough. Unless you have some metaphysics or beliefs you are bringing to the table?

The practice is a combination of intense desire to communicate through projection and consistent effort.

You can visualise a task or verbalise a task or even just focus on breathing to accomplish a task. The task being projecting to a certain person or place.

The experience Is brilliant,communicating with a loved one from a distance is great.

It's like dreaming of something you really like,but doing it fully awake and by your will.

One caveat,is that not every time will be perfect,it takes practice. And sometimes you might have unpleasant experiences,even a little frightening.

@Noble Dust
One can just practice and experience the phenomenon,and vocalise the metaphysics later.

What kind of details are you interested in, the practical preparation or the actual experience?

@Jack Cummins
Cheers!

@Noble Dust
I've listened to Graham Nicholls on YouTube and munroe and others on YouTube and it seems they are talking about the same thing near enough.

As you said its when definitions and rigid metaphysics sets in that the issue gets a bit opaque.

I just bung out
the nonsense and get on with it to be honest.
Practice and meditation is key.

@Jack Cummins
It's a very good thread. Hopefully someone can link it for further discussion on this thread.

What's your take thoughts on the totem and the taboo?

What insights do you take from that book?

@Noble Dust
Yes,I've never really liked the term OOBE for the reasons you have stated.

I think when it gets into a community or organisation that's when I generally go my own way.

But the actual phenomenon is experiencable and there are many reports of people entering the dreams of others or conversing with each other from miles away,either by imagery and voice,or voice or feelings alone.

@Noble Dust
Its all astral projection.
The projection is out of the body but I'm still in the body.

Those who claim out of the body should clarify that they haven't left the body totally,their awareness has just extended and projected themselves in the form of an image. Just like remote viewing.
If you left your body you would die.

Hope that's clearer.

@Noble Dust
To be honest this leads to the notion of extended conciousness. Beyond the body.

Which is something I have experienced in a heightened fashion many many times.

@Noble Dust
I've never really looked at my astral projecting as an OBE,because that term normally refers to an experience of vibrating and seemingly happening to one whilst awake rather than consciously projecting.

But,on closer inspection through talking with you here,how much of a distinction is there really?

Mainly I don't consider a person actually leaves their body literally but just projects themselves from within the body.

@Noble Dust
We both practice meditation in numerous different ways.

In the period mentioned we both talked a lot about astral projection and practiced a lot.

Then after a while Wifey began to be able to project when she Focused and suceeded to OBE whilst awake.

I will also clarify,astral projection is also a kind of OBE,and if so we both were able to do this regularly.

@Noble Dust
My Wife's.

@Noble Dust
Walking is a great meditation.

As can be any activity if one focuses on it.

You could try to induce an OBE whilst walking.

I know of a successful OBE from focusing whilst sitting on a sofa.

@Noble Dust
Yep,my bad. Of course a lot of people might like the brink of sleep state and lying down meditating.

With that said,sitting or even moving meditation can help as well. Depends on the person really.

@Jack Cummins
I just read through your thread on "Freud the great philosophical adventure." A very interesting and relevent thread.

Do you or anyone know how to link that thread to this one?

@Noble Dust
There are meditation techniques to help induce OBEs,maybe Monroes book has some techniques he recommends.

@Joshs
You are right. I would say however the use of freud for woke discourse or critical race theory or feminism is something I generally deplore.

I prefer some of the continental thinkers who used freud from the frankfurt school,and best of all Jaques Lacan. He really added some great additions to freuds work.

Excellent insight on the translation!

@3017amen
Maslow is a very interesting thinker as well. Especially his "peak experiences".

Which kind of cognitive science?

I don't expect miracles from this thread but let those with ears to hear hear!

@Noble Dust
Have you ever imagined something in the day or day dreamt at length?

This phenomenon is related. Its about focusing on a certain facet of life that we need to.

Meditation throws up these visions and travels,as can entheogens.

These visions and episodes have a personal meaning.

@3017amen
It's nice to see a religious poster appreciate freuds thinking.

Psychology as per freud and James especially relates to the existential human being.

Childhood and traumatic experiences can have lasting psychological effects on some elements of perception and philosophy rarely addresses this.

Jung gets too platonic and abstract,but most of the neo-freudians had good things to add and good criticisms,especially Alfred adler.

@Jack Cummins
Those are very interesting symbolic dreams!

Yes,taking thinkers ideas literally is incorrect.
With imagination and tinkering one can take the good of freud and reject the bad.
I will be reading the totem and taboo soon. This book contains some tremendous insights and ideas,even though I disagree with freud in places on religion and a lot on sexuality,his basic ideas are exceptional.

Talking In general is wonderful therapy!

@baker
The state has never been democratic. Its always been champagne socialism.

Political double speak,the bread and butter of the media and politicians.

Freespeech,another rich man's euphemism and carrot.

@Jack Cummins
Yes,I take on board and agree with a lot of what you are saying here. I think he is the most important modern thinker to grapple with,as his work broaches religion,science,culture and biology.

As you mention there are problems with his understandings and several criticisms of him but I think too many throw out the baby with the bathwater.

I think the reason for the visceral reaction against him is that he exposes the depths of certain human psyches and that is too close to home or too frightening for many.

Most people have barely read him,and politically I think he has been marginalised nowadays because he expressed some extremely important truths.

Namely,man is Not a rational animal but in fact is a creature of desire...Of course philosophers and scientists will grumble because it undermines their whole "rationality narrative". Freud inadvertently pops the fairy tale of rationality.

@Noble Dust
I haven't had the specific experience you mentioned. But I do have a great interest in this phenomenon.
I think it is related to dreaming,especially lucid dreaming,remote viewing and being in the zone.

These constant debates on morality are interesting. They veer into the abstract and the ivory towers.
Morality is really a word for a code of conduct for self and other.

Nobody wants to be robbed or beaten against their will.
Therefore certain aspects of human desire are absolute.
So some morality is absolute.

Now whether people universally follow these rules is obviously not always. But no one disagrees that they themselves personally should be harmed against their will.

Lastly,people can agree with certain moral principles but in reality break them and lie about their motives. That's life in the real world outside of theories.

@baker
So if its that restricted its
not freespeech then is it.

@baker
Many countries claim freedom of speech and press and yet censor freespeech.
So I need a printing press to have free speech?

@baker
Not if you hold that your country has a free press.