Well, back then... — leo

Not to say there aren't misconceptions in what the OP said, and surely it doesn't help to use misconceptions in support of a speculative idea, but as a speculative idea I think it is worth exploring, rather than dismissing it right from the start as if we knew better, just because it seems to contradict "what we now know".

A speculative idea sometimes starts as an intuition, we don't really know where it's coming from, it's just floating there, we don't see how we could test it, but maybe if we discuss it and allow it to grow, something that we don't see yet will come out of it. The OP mentioned repeatedly that his mind works best through dialogue, that much of his thought is subconscious and only takes shape through dialogue, that was an invitation to help that idea grow, but instead he was simply met with resistance and with attempts to nip it in the bud. That's why paradigms take time to change, because ideas that contradict the prevalent one are resisted and rejected, instead of being allowed to flourish. A speculative idea is a bit like a flower seed, we have to water it and let it grow if we want to see the flower that it can become. — leo

the EU has said unequivocally that it is not open to renegotiation, that the deal that's been offered is the only one available. Johnson's threat of leaving 'deal or no deal' is only that - a threat, or a bluff. So he actually has no room to move, other than to get Parliament to agree with the existing deal, although he's bullshitted everyone to think otherwise. (Trump: 'that's my boy!') — Wayfarer

A wallower. — Wallows

I think, a lot of what goes on here is identity formation, where you seem to be constantly in dissonance or confusion that is protected/projected onto others. — Wallows

S, has nothing to teach. I suggest, learning from someone else if dialectics is your thing. — Wallows

Does anyone like you? If so, then they’re probably insufferable pricks as well. — Noah Te Stroete

S singles out my posts for some reason. He said I have a “God delusion.” I never argued for a particular god or implied that I know the nature of God. A delusion means having a false belief. This from someone who in other threads stated he had no beliefs about God one way or the other. Now he says it’s “delusion,” and says I don’t care about the truth. Weird. — Noah Te Stroete

I'm not the only one to have claimed that, I do have first-hand experience however. You can use my personal report as a starting point to conduct further inquiry and see whether there is a statistically significant percentage of former materialists who call their former self as narrow-minded, or you can simply dismiss it because you don't like the idea or because you don't care. — leo

I don't see how that addresses what I said, those "science failures" you mention were widely accepted as facts, as truth in their time, whereas someone who would have discussed ideas of 20th century physics back then would have been seen as fanciful or as a crank. And these "science failures" adhered to the "scientific method" just fine back then. — leo

You took the time to write all of this when you didn't have to lol — khaled

I used to be a materialist, and I see now how narrow-minded I was, so there's that. — leo

I used to be a materialist, and I see now how narrow-minded I was, so there's that. I don't know of many people who turned materialists later in life, sure there are examples of people who escaped indoctrination from organized religion and who find more peace of mind in materialism, but then these were more looking to escape certain people rather than a philosophy that doesn't see matter as primary. — leo

Also, the ideas of 20th century physics would have been called fanciful by materialists in the centuries before, and they may be called fanciful again in the next centuries, and maybe what you call fanciful now will be seen as reasonable in the future. Looking at the history and philosophy of science can help shatter some deeply-held beliefs, and lead one to be more open-minded. — leo

Still I think that people who believe in the primacy of consciousness over matter are usually less narrow-minded. — leo

There can definitely be benefits to church/religion-based social life, especially if you live in particular locations where that dominates the way that people interact socially. — Terrapin Station

It’s just that my life was very lonely and shitty when I was an atheist. :fear: — Noah Te Stroete

My point was that I was an atheist for a long time. — Noah Te Stroete

...but without a subjective experience by someone, there would be no notion, knowledge, or experience of this. It would have no meaning. It wouldn’t matter. — Noah Te Stroete

I will not respond to S. — Noah Te Stroete

That is why a consciousness is required to observe an inflation of a fluctuation in the quantum foam. Without an observer, there would be no Big Bang. This is one theory of how the universe began. A fluctuation in the quantum foam expanded and inflated into our universe. Just as wave functions require an observer to collapse, it would seem that an observer would be required for the fluctuation in the quantum foam to come into existence. — Noah Te Stroete

By “spirit,” I am giving a name to the basic substance. You can call it “energy,” “force,” or “potentiality,” if you like. “Spirit” just sounds like an amalgam of these ideas, and it jives with consciousness and the nature of qualia. — Noah Te Stroete

By “scientism” I am saying that you put faith in science to explain everything, including consciousness. — Noah Te Stroete

I have thought about this for years. — Noah Te Stroete

What would matter even look like without it being perceived? It takes an observer to make the amorphous and undifferentiated become form and differentiated. — Noah Te Stroete

The world existed long before us and our machines.
— S

No kidding. — Noah Te Stroete

Do you even know what you’re talking about? I was the biggest atheist there was for half of my life. I even wrote a book about it, and you are free to Google me. A divine consciousness is an elegant way to explain reality. You’re just biased. Your love of scientism shows throughout. — Noah Te Stroete

The machines, computers, and sensors are made through human intentionality. They require a conscious mind in design, execution, and interpretation. — Noah Te Stroete

If you’re talking about machines, then my response would be that it takes a conscious mind to interpret the results. — Noah Te Stroete

The observer has to be conscious. — Noah Te Stroete

I think you’re close-minded, hard-headed, unfeeling, unoriginal, and unimaginative. — Noah Te Stroete

Do you have a specific question or concern? Much of my thought is subconscious and only takes shape through dialogue. — Noah Te Stroete

Quantum mechanics shows that subatomic particles cannot be pinned down to a specific location and momentum until it is observed. — Noah Te Stroete

It takes an observing mind in order for the elements of matter to take shape on its most fundamental scale. Hence, in order for the universe to begin (the Big Bang) something conscious had to observe the singularity in order for it to BECOME something. — Noah Te Stroete

Feel free to criticize/critique. — Noah Te Stroete

Michael and S. I got nothing to say to you, but just wanted to tag you so you might see my fucked up post above.

You're welcome — Hanover

What is philosophy for you? An intellectual challenge? A vocation? A schema? A mystery? — Pantagruel

Jeremy Corbyn (Labour): "Boris Johnson has won the support of fewer than 100,000 unrepresentative Conservative Party members by promising tax cuts for the richest, presenting himself as the bankers' friend, and pushing for a damaging no-deal Brexit. But he hasn't won the support of our country."

Jo Swinson (Lib Dems): "Boris Johnson has finally got his hands on the keys to Number 10, but he has shown time and time again that he isn't fit to be the prime minister of our country. Whether it is throwing people under the bus or writing a lie on the side of one: Britain deserves better than Boris Johnson."

Caroline Lucas (Green Party, no comment from leaders): "Around 100,000 Tory party members have inflicted on us a prime minister with a record of bigotry, racism, lying and incompetence. This is not democracy This is not in our name."

Anna Soubry (The Independent Group for Change): "It's a very bleak day for our country. It's as stark as that. He's called the great charlatan for good reason. And he is absolutely shameless in his ability to shift his position."

Nicola Sturgeon (SNP): "I congratulate Boris Johnson on his election as Tory leader and I will do everything possible to ensure that he respects Scotland's views and interests. However, I have profound concerns about the prospect of his premiership and it would be hypocritical not to be frank about these."

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru): "During the most serious political crisis in decades, a clown is set to become prime minister. But this is no joke. People will soon realise, this isn’t as good as it gets. By electing Boris Johnson, the question of Welsh independence is not of ‘if’, but ‘when’."

Arlene Foster (DUP): "Congratulations to Boris Johnson on becoming Conservative Party Leader. Look forward to discussing our shared objectives of strengthening the Union, delivering Brexit and restoring devolution."

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Fein): "We will continue to work with the Dublin government and the EU27 to protect Ireland from the catastrophic impact of the reckless Brexit being pursued by Boris Johnson and the hard Brexiteers."

Swinson might surprise you. She's got just the pizzazz the Lib Dems need and at just the right time. They won't win it, but they'll complicate matters and that's a huge improvement on being irrelevant. — Baden

There is nothing funny about sitting down behind a laptop and trying to make jokes at other peoples expense... That's why it's called Stand up comedy! Bahdumtssss... — Mark Dennis

Right. Well, many of us said the same thing about one Donald Trump, and it seems quite possible that he could get re-elected. No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the electorate. If you can fool enough of the people enough of the time, you can get elected and re-elected. — Bitter Crank

I would say there is no "solving" the backstop issue. There is only capitulation from the UK or pretending. For 'backstop', read 'The Good Friday Agreement'. That ain't being given up. — Baden

You really think that your vote is "wasted" by voting a third party? — ssu

When there is a will, there's a way... — ssu

I meant in the poltical sense. I don't think it helps the debate, the discussion of political outcomes, the weighing of options, the understanding the situation when either say predicts the end of the UK if they do or don't Brexit. — Coben

You're not the boss of me. — creativesoul