Do you root for some kind of indigenismo politics? — javi2541997

So Arcane, there is a jot of connectivity. But here is a good place for an observation:
Conscience, mentioned in the lyrics: This appears when one second guesses one's position. What was at first confidence turns to inquiry, for what one was confident in has been undermined somehow. Think of this as a universal condition, that is, the condition of ALL one has confidence in, and all things have lost the absolute confidence one had in them. Earth crisis, or world crisis, is a crisis in everything, so there is no sanctuary since the world is all there is. Now you have encountered metaphysics. The question the OP asks, indirectly, is where IS one once conscience, the call, beckons, or insists (one can never go back) that all things, values and meaning is without foundation? — Astrophel

[Verse 1]
I am a shotgun rider
For the San Jacinto line
The desert is my brother
My skin is cracked and dry
I was riding on a folk coach
And everything was fine
Till we took a shorter road
To save some time
The bandits only fired once
They shot me in the chest
They may have wounded me but
They'll never get the best
Of better men
Cause I'll ride again

[Verse 2]
I am a river gambler
I make a living dealing cards
My clothes are smooth and honest
My heart is cold and hard
I was shuffling for some delta boys
On a boat for New Orleans
I was the greatest shark they'd ever seen
But the captain bumped a sandbar
And an ace fell from my sleeve
They threw me overboard
As I swore I didn't cheat
But I could swim
And I'll ride again

[Chorus]
We are heroes of the homeland, American remains
We live in many faces and answer many names
We will not be forgotten, we won't be left behind
Our memories live on in mortal minds
And poets pens
We'll ride again

[Verse 3]
I am a mid-west farmer
I make a living off the land
I ride a John Deere tractor
I'm a liberated man
But the rain it hasn't fallen
Since the middle of July
And if it don't come soon my crops will die
The bank man says he likes me
But there's nothing he can do
He tells me that he's coming
But the clouds are coming too
He ain't my friend
And I'll ride again

[Verse 4]
I am an American Indian
My tribe is Cherokee
My forefathers loved this land
They left it here for me
But the white man came with boats
And trains and dirty factories
And poisoned my existence with his deeds
Nature is our mother
We are sucklings at her breast
And he who tries to beat her down
Will lose her to the rest
They'll never win
I'll ride again — The Highwaymen

She continued — PoeticUniverse

When Kings fall to their knees
They sing a woman's song
When birds scream in the trees
They sing a woman's song
The sunrise in the east
Sings a woman's song
Every heart that beats
Sings a woman's song — Lzzy Hale

The Primitive Customs of the Hummingbird

Our Father, the Absolute First
created himself from the primordial darkness.

He created the divine soles of his feet,
His small round throne.
He created them as he grew in the primordial darkness.

The reflection of his divine wisdom, his divine all-hearing
His divine palms holding his scepter and flowering branches
these Ñamandú created as he grew from the primordial darkness.

Flowers adorned his divine feathered headdress like drops of dew;
And amidst the flowers of his sacred feathered crown
Hummingbird, the primeval bird, gamboled and flew.

Even while our first Father created his own divine body,
He existed in the midst of the primordial winds.

Before he conceived his future earthly dwelling,
before he conceived his future heavens, his future earth —
Hummingbird refreshed his mouth.

It was Hummingbird who sustained Ñamandú with the fruits of paradise.

Our Father Ñamandú, the First,
before he created his future paradise
He did not see the darkness
although the sun did not yet exist.

The reflection of his own heart illuminated him;
His divine wisdom served as the sun.

Our true Father Ñamandú, the First,
dwelt amidst the primordial winds;
Where he stopped to rest
the Owl produced darkness:
for already the cradle of night existed.

Before the true Father Ñamandú, the First,
created his future paradise, before the creation of the first earth,
He existed in the midst of the primordial winds.

The primal winds in which Our Father existed return
with the arrival of the primal space-time
with the resurgence of the primitive season.
As the old season ends
with the flowering of the lapacho tree
the winds bring the new season.
The new winds come, the new space,
bringing the resurrection of space-time. — Guarani Creation Myth

(could be continued) — PoeticUniverse

997
Y he de decir ansí mismo,
porque de adentro me brota,
que no tiene patriotismo
quien no cuida al compatriota. — José Hernández

I don't mind what you do with your previous post: I am just letting you know that most of them are not aphorisms and this OP is a list of aphorisms. — Bob Ross

The temporary complexity is way more interesting and lively than the simple Permanent underlying. — PoeticUniverse

I guess they're saying that applying a known solution doesn't indicate intelligence. I was watching a YouTube of a bird using a piece of cracker as fish bait. It would drop the bit in the water and wait for a fish to come — frank

If this is instinctual and all birds do it, it's not a sign of intelligence. — frank

But if the bird worked this out on it's own, learning, adapting, adopting new strategies, then it's intelligent. — frank

Despite not reaching the threshold of artificial intelligence, artificial achievement and expertise systems should, nonetheless, be regarded as remarkable scientific accomplishments, ones that can be anticipated to impact many aspects of society in significant ways. — frank

There are three important characteristics to this definition. First, when a person's intelligence is considered, it is in the context of their maximal capacity to solve novel problems, not a person's typically manifested intelligent behaviour. (...) Secondly, the essence of human intelligence is closely tied to its application in novel contexts (Davidson & Downing, 2000; Raaheim & Brun, 1985). This entails solving problems that a person has not previously encountered, rather than those with which they are already familiar. (...) Thirdly, human intelligence is underpinned by perceptual-cognitive functions (Thomson, 1919), which, at a basic level, encompass a range of mental processes, including attention, visual perception, auditory perception, and sensory integration (i.e., multiple modalities). — Gilles E. Gignac, Eva T. Szodorai

Though our recommended abstract definition of human intelligence may help elucidate its conceptual nature, it lacks concreteness to be sufficiently useful to guide the development of corresponding psychometric measures of intelligence. — Gilles E. Gignac, Eva T. Szodorai

we propose defining artificial intelligence abstractly as the maximal capacity of an artificial system to successfully achieve a novel goal through computational algorithms. — Gilles E. Gignac, Eva T. Szodorai

Our abstract definition of AI is identical to the definition of human intelligence we outlined above, with two exceptions. First, we replaced ‘human’ with ‘artificial system’ to reflect the fundamental distinction between organic, human cognitive processes versus synthetic, computer-based operations inherent in AI systems. Secondly, novel goals are specified to be achieved through the use of computational algorithms, not perceptual-cognitive processes. — Gilles E. Gignac, Eva T. Szodorai

Anyhow, I feel like: "Hinton explains why neither we nor AI are sentient," might be more accurate here. :wink: — Count Timothy von Icarus

Hegel identifies the Permanent and the temporary, but a spirit as mind cannot be First and Fundamental because it is a system of complexity. — PoeticUniverse

Or Brahman was bored and dreamed up a Soap Opera channel as life on Earth that does stupid things. — PoeticUniverse

↪Banno
You're another moron who replies to my threads in order to argue against fantasies in your own mind which have nothing to do with anything I ever said or thought. — Brendan Golledge

This should keep you busy and not worrying any more about the ultimate truth… — PoeticUniverse

When we read a book about insects or French history, do we only learn about words since that is all the books contain? — Count Timothy von Icarus

To be sure, there can be figurative language that is more or less empty, but it is not all empty. — Count Timothy von Icarus

Plato and Dante are two of the finest philosophers in history and both make extensive use of imagery and present their works in narratives packed with symbolism and drama. — Count Timothy von Icarus

They are successful, in part, not in spite of this technique but because of it. — Count Timothy von Icarus

Indeed, both suggest that what they most want to speak about cannot be approached directly, through syllogism and dissertation, but must "leap from one soul to another, as a flame jumps between candles." — Count Timothy von Icarus

IMO, one of the great losses in modern philosophy is its move away from drama and verse. — Count Timothy von Icarus

Nietzsche is a standout for this in our own epoch, — Count Timothy von Icarus

many of the older great works, from Parmenides, to Plato, to St. Augustine, to Boethius, to Dante, to St. John of the Cross to Voltaire are filled with it. — Count Timothy von Icarus

Camus and Sarte it seems, were not enough to start a trend. — Count Timothy von Icarus

AI poem extension: — PoeticUniverse

All Watched Over By Machines Of Loving Grace

I like to think (and
the sooner the better!)
of a cybernetic meadow
where mammals and computers
live together in mutually
programming harmony
like pure water
touching clear sky.

I like to think
(right now, please!)
of a cybernetic forest
filled with pines and electronics
where deer stroll peacefully
past computers
as if they were flowers
with spinning blossoms.

I like to think
(it has to be!)
of a cybernetic ecology
where we are free of our labors
and joined back to nature,
returned to our mammal
brothers and sisters,
and all watched over
by machines of loving grace — Richard Brautigan

I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make. — Count Timothy von Icarus

A blanket renouncement of figurative language and metaphor? — Count Timothy von Icarus

Here I set myself to singing
To the rhythm of the guitar,
For when a man is kept awake
By an extraordinary sorrow,
Like a solitary bird,
He finds solace in song. — PoeticUniverse

I sit here to sing my song
To the beat of my old guitar
For the man whose life is a bitter cup,
With a song may yet his heart lift up,
As the lonely bird on the leafless tree,
That sings ‘neat the gloaming star. — José Hernández

A cheerful AI song I made, extended from Omar Khayyam's Rubaiyat poem, regarding the bird, — PoeticUniverse

I'd feel like I'm being misunderstood if people began to wonder if they ought be like bees or ants. — Moliere

Also, thanks for teaching me about eusociality. — Moliere

Cool, thanks. I'll think about it, but obviously if I'm mixing them up now it's not the time to disentangle. — Moliere

There could be one, but I think it's so far out there that any suggestion will probably be false. — Moliere

Someone could trip across the right answer, as we've done before. I don't like to cut off ideas in principle -- and really, if I'm a marxist, there ought be a way to do this scientifically. — Moliere

I just doubt that there is at the moment, and through my experience with doing union politics, at least, I've sort of come around to thinking there is no scientific analysis of political power -- it's a historical, rather than scientific, phenomena. — Moliere

Hmmm... but is it Divine, yes or no? — Arcane Sandwich


No. Having no parts makes for the Permanent to be the ultimate lightweight; so it can't have any being, the doomed fate hat is hoped for by those looking for Divine as what's beneath, which is at the wrong level, as simplex, for the complex. Look to the future for higher beings and more complexity, not to the simpler and simpler past. — PoeticUniverse

My quatrains sort of follow the Rubaiyat rhyme scheme:

The verses beat the same, in measured chime.
Lines one-two set the stage, one-two-four rhyme.
Verse three’s the pivot around which thought turns;
Line four delivers the sting, just in time. — PoeticUniverse

Aquí me pongo a cantar
Al compás de la vigüela
Que al hombre que lo desvela
Una pena estrordinaria,
Como la ave solitaria
Con el cantar se consuela — José Hernández

an answer is that it is a psychological construct. — frank

Well, depends on what they have to say. — Astrophel

Never turn my back on them
I could never live as I once did
I have to obey my conscience and answer to all
That it bids
Why would the hand of fate place me here
If it wasn't to heed the call?
Destined to be the one who steps up
Out of line to save them all — Earth Crisis

Oh yes I have no desire to live in bee-society. For human beings, at least, bees are too collectivist -- we'd suffocate in that society.

I'm a collectivist, but it's not like I want to emulate the ants or bees. That's insane — Moliere

Eusociality (Greek εὖ eu "good" and social) is the highest level of organization of sociality. It is defined by the following characteristics: cooperative brood care (including care of offspring from other individuals), overlapping generations within a colony of adults, and a division of labor into reproductive and non-reproductive groups. The division of labor creates specialized behavioral groups within an animal society, sometimes called castes. Eusociality is distinguished from all other social systems because individuals of at least one caste usually lose the ability to perform behaviors characteristic of individuals in another caste. — Wikipedia

I could be mixing up topics -- I do it all the time, and would be appreciative if I can see how I'm doing it now (not your job, of course, but mine -- just would be appreciative) — Moliere

"Power" is a funny word -- Bertrand Russell tried to write a science of power by listing the various categories of power and suggesting it could be measured somehow. I think this is a common misconception of power -- that it's something like Kinetic or Potential Energy, and the greater force wins.

That's a simplification that works, but is basically false. There is no unit of "Power" in terms of political power. — Moliere

By "craft" I meant the sort of thing you're talking about here -- one can become better at something, and a school can use a hierarchy to indicate to students the path they are meant to take. I can see the conflict with what I'm saying, and I'm not sure how to resolve it. — Moliere

I think in the ideal ideal world I'd prefer it if somehow persons could meaningfully choose to participate in such hierarchies. It's not like learning is bad, and human beings can benefit from that.

It's that human nature is such that even those benevolent hierarchies are abused -- in various dark ways that we need not go into. — Moliere

"Suffering is a choice."

This is cruel and simplistic. While there is plenty of suffering that might be avoidable if one could muster the courage/will to act rationally, there is plenty of suffering that is not avoidable. Tell that to the soldiers/victims of war, gang violence, rape, addiction, depression, illness and other gnarly incidents of nature. — Nils Loc

Maybe this means we can justify harming others more if all suffering is an individual affair. — Nils Loc

I'm not sure that I'm even challenging these ideas as much as using "hierarchy" differently. That's kind of what I was getting at with the notion that this is a more political than metaphysical statement -- I'm not talking about bees or the mastery of a craft, but power relations between human beings (which are largely defined by decision-making-power, in my mind) — Moliere

I agree that calling the Queen Bee the Queen is a misnomer since bees are much more collectivist than human beings are. At least, from the outside -- it's not like I know how to read bee poetry. — Moliere

I agree here. I'm not a reductionist marxist type person -- just a marxist in the sense that I read him and respect his ideas and utilize his ideas in understanding the world around me because it's mostly worked so far. — Moliere

I'd say that a Marxist analysis of society doesn't look to place individuals within the hierarchy in a general sense -- it depends upon the "concrete conditions", and so the truth of placing people in a hierarchy isn't something decided in a conversation of contemplation at all. It's more "scientific", but less scientific in terms of norms -- in a marxist analysis it's class oppression, and not individual oppression, that matters. The concrete conditions could be likened to when we have to actually do something in the now -- who has the decision-making power? who has the money? what do we do to accomplish.....? -- rather than some criteria which will always hold such that we can say "King Charles does 78 oppressions per day", or anything so specific or general as that. — Moliere

Yup. Not intentionally, of course. — Moliere

- i.e. class is a real thing — Moliere

I do not think it ought be a real thing.

But this is much more political than metaphysical on my part. — Moliere

I wouldn't be so quick to make that judgement. But I don't see what this has to do with whether or not there is a reincarnation of Hegel. — Metaphysician Undercover

I guess this depends on what "be turned into" means. There is a break in the continuity of identity which is implied by that phrase. And there is a special term for such a break in the continuity of identity, it is generally known as a "transformation". "Reincarnation" also implies a type of transformation, as does "transubstantiation". The concept of "transformation" has been a great gift to creative philosophers. Now there must have been some jealousy from the mathematicians, because the concept "transformation", has now been adopted into mathematics and physics, enabling lofty sophistry. — Metaphysician Undercover

These are my favorites:

Operation Mindcrime
Painkiller
Rust in Peace
Seventh Son
Dirt (Alice in Chains) — RogueAI

Mindcrime never gets the credit it deserves — RogueAI

I don't know Earth Crisis — Jack Cummins

I started listening to nu metal initially — Jack Cummins

including Slipknot's 'When All Hope is Gone', some Linkin Park. I really like Marilyn Manson's 'Mechanical Animals'. — Jack Cummins

But I do also like some hardcore/punk, including Against Me. I like Metallica but don't play them too often because they are so dark. — Jack Cummins

Not Divine, as in a 'God' Being… — PoeticUniverse

In this lost haunt, on the Orion arm
Of the Milky Way, safe from the core’s harm,
We philosophers meet in the tavern,
As sleuth-hounds, unweaving the Cosmic yarn. — PoeticUniverse

Divinity does not have to be about a transcendent anthromorphic 'God'. — Jack Cummins

You are the temporary arrangement of the Permanent; so, you are It for a while. — PoeticUniverse

Scandinavia is just a group of three (very different) nations: Sweden, Norway, and Finland. — Arcane Sandwich

the citizens of the US — ssu

First of all, many Americans think about secession of their state, at least as a theoretical option. — ssu

It's usually the American commentators who declare the imminent demise of the EU integration project, something that they have done now for decades. — ssu

Yet what is also telling is that those who really are keeping up the dream of the EU are Ukrainians and Georgians, who have seen how other neighboring countries have become stable and prospered inside the European Union. It's in these countries who want to avoid to be under the control of the Russian Empire that cherish the thought of European integration. — ssu