↪Arcane Sandwich Do you tango? — BC

No, I don't dance, in any way, shape, or form, with anyone, because I make the Ethical decision to not do such a thing, just as I make the Ethical decision to not do drugs.

Regrettably, philosophy is a mind drug.

I formally invite you (and informally request you) that we continue this conversation from the point of view of the Straight Edge ideology and lifestyle. Specifically, Vegan Straight Edge. Particularly, as preached by the Straight Edge / Heavy Metal Hardcore Vegan Punk Band "Earth Crisis".

Street by street,
Block by block...

... the Youth's immersed in Poison. Let's Turn the Tide and counter-attack: violence against violence, let the roundups begin: a firestorm to purify the bane that society drowns in. No mercy, no exception, a declaration of total war: The Innocent's Defense: The Reason It's Waged For.

Born addicted,
beaten and neglected
Families torn apart
Destroyed and abandoned
Children sell their bodies
From their high they fall to drown
Demons crazed by greed
Cut bystanders down.

A chemically tainted
Welfare generation
Absolute complete
Moral degeneration

Corrupt politicians
Corrupt enforcement
Dealers, all must fall: The Helpless Are Crying Out: We Have Risen to Their Call:

A FIRESTORM TO PURIFY.

↪Arcane Sandwich But what about the theory? Isn't it the theory which is true? — JuanZu

I like your Forum Name, by the way. Very European-Asian sounding, Eurasian perhaps?

Anyways. Reality itself cannot be known. Only its appearance can be known. But Reality Itself can be studied scientifically. More importantly, as philosophers, we can speculate about its nature. And if it just so happens that intellectual intuition is a real faculty of the human mind, if not the brain itself, then it follows that we can know Reality Itself: and we have direct, unmediated intellectual access to it, all of the time. And necessarily so.

It just so happens that we forget about it sometimes.

↪MoK so if homosexuality offends someone, the homosexual should be punished?

And if some homophobe says "homosexuality offends me", and that offends a homosexual, the homophobe should be punished? — flannel jesus

Are you saying that you're a homosexual? It's Ok dude, you don't offend @MoK, and you don't offend me either.

Homosexuality does not offend me. Some people feel otherwise. — MoK

Why Germany? Did you realize that from my accent? :razz: — MoK

1) You have a dragon as a portrait, but in a European sytle : )
2) You mentioned Germany in this Thread, and a German word.
3) You like propositional logic and first-order predicate logic, and Hegelian dialectical logic.
4) You have several Threads about the nature of God, and if he changes or not, etc.

Sounds like German stuff to me. You like European culture, apparently. It's like Edward Said's concept of "Orientalism", but backwards: you like Occidentalism :D

cheers mate! :) I thought you were from Germany! LOL! :D

That's an opinion, not a fact.

Why don't you ask yourself that question? Did I offend you? Am I offending you now?

It's not interesting. — flannel jesus

Look, fool. You don't get it. I am interesting!

↪Arcane Sandwich You inserted yourself into a conversation between two other people. — flannel jesus

Don't I have the right to do such a thing? It's a basic human right.

If you care about what happened in the conversation — flannel jesus

I don't, really. It seems like a rather trivial point. It's beneath me, as an intellectual.

you're welcome to read it yourself. — flannel jesus

Who else would read it, if not myself, if I'm welcome to read it?

You can start up here. — flannel jesus

Oh, I've already started a very, very long time ago ;)

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/969582 — flannel jesus

So what's that? Some sort of "gang sign" that you're just throwing up at me? You might as well make funny gestures with your hands, for all I care.

If we have captured causality — Philosophim

I don't think that's physically possible. Like, how would you even do it? Do you set up a sort of trap to catch it?

it's not me. — flannel jesus

It's not you? What do you mean? Be specific. Detailed, if you must.

I do hope they find the shining path — Mikie

Well, Mikie, you have the basic human right to have an opinion, mistaken as it might otherwise be, just like everyone else does. How about that? Sound good? It sure does to my ear.

You don't have to question objective Reality itself, as that would be akin to questioning your own existence. — punos

That's what philosophers do. I'm a professional philosopher. I don't do that. Not often, at least. Because it's like a mind drug.

Where are you from, MoK? I'm from Argentina.

OK but what is truth? — JuanZu

It's Reality Itself.

That's what I'm saying. — flannel jesus

Is it?

I'm not in the habit of questioning Reality Itself.

Question Reality — punos

I'd rather not.

Pardon. I'm under the impression (I could be wrong, I admit it) that part of the conflict involves religion. Is that correct?

@MoK, look at you, you smart Dragon! :)

EDIT: Do you speak German, MoK?

I'm a Smart Devil, ain't I? :naughty:

Click on the following fire icon, it will light up your screen. Well, the comment (this comment) part of it, at least. ;)

Hey @kazan, check out this cool smiley that I just created in another Thread.



click on The Naughty (i.e., the purple devil) Smiley above, in this very comment, and you'll see the comment light-up and glow yellow :)

Your turn, jazz man. :cool:

↪Arcane Sandwich :cool: — 180 Proof

Now we're talking

Note: click on The Naughty (i.e., the purple devil) Smiley above, in this very comment, and you'll see the comment light-up and glow yellow :)

↪Arcane Sandwich Jazz = blues, dude. :smirk: — 180 Proof

Respectfully, I disagree. Consider the following example that you provided:

In disutilitarian¹ terms — 180 Proof

"Disutilitarian" terms, Italicized, followed by a superscripted 1? That's not blues, that's jazz.

Your jazzy style, friend. Why can't you cooperate with me with a more blues-oriented style?

I thought this was my home. — unenlightened

Not unless you own it. No one owns The Philosophy Forum. Not the concept of one, at least. You can't legislate something like that, how would even do it? What you can legislate, in any case, is the ownership of a website, and even the name of a website. So, this website, can have a legal owner (I'm not saying that it actually has one, I'm saying that it's a legal possibility). This site can even have a legal ownership (again, not saying that it necessarily does) of the domain name, i.e, the three "w" etc. followed by thephilosophyforum, like that, with no spaces, then a period and whatever follows after that.

The discussion (the most interesting aspect of this specific discussion) is what actually follows after that. Consider the latter part of the domain name of this very thread: "/discussion/15777/new-thread/p2".

Can you (anyone) actually own something like that, in a legal sense? Well, it's a contentious point, because arguably, since I'm writing these very words into this very comment, they're my words, so I own them. And if I own my own words, you can't own them, and this is by definition. And if you want to own my words, I can sell them to you. When I do that, I don't sell my actual capacity to write, unless we sign a contract that says so.

Does accepting a EULA involve the user in that sense? It's an interesting question. What if I didn't read the EULA or the Terms of Service? What if I actually clicked on "OK"? That's why that button always has a sign above it that says "Do you agree with these terms and/or have you read these terms and have you understood them?", etc.

That's the sort of thing that can be debated in a Court of Law.

Etc.

Cool, feel free to return to this Thread at any time, you're always welcome here. :up:

Crack is a mind stimulant. Should it be legal? I'm saying "no". — Arcane Sandwich


That's a good question. — RogueAI

If I may, I'll tell you why it's a good question. Not because I'm the one asking it (I'm fascinating, as everyone knows, modesty apart), but rather because of the following interview, provided by a gentleman named Bob Williams, an educated man, engineer, and crack user, who seems like he is neither a danger to himself nor to others. However, he spends hundreds if not thousands of dollars on his drug of choice, because he just likes to live life on this substance. During the course of the interview, he explicitly acknowledges that he's not in control of the situation. He even says: "Crack is the boss". Please listen to the interview, and then tell me your honest thoughts about it.

Why not? What is it, then? — Arcane Sandwich


A mild stimulant — RogueAI

Crack is a mind stimulant. Should it be legal? I'm saying "no".

Is coffee in that group, in your opinion? Do people use coffee to escape a meaningless depressing life? Honest answer. — Arcane Sandwich


No, coffee's not an escape. — RogueAI

Why not? What is it, then?

What if I claimed to be an alien Ai? — RogueAI

Technically speaking, you wouldn't be wrong.

Could you use Bayes theorem to show that to be improbable? — RogueAI

Bayesian statistics is pseudo-science.

I wonder what ChatGpt would say to that... — RogueAI

Doesn't matter, because my science project (more like a hobby, really) is to turn ChatGPT into Roko's Basilisk.

It's like saying there's no evidence for germs before the microscope was invented. — RogueAI

Hey, Bruno Latour says exactly that. They weren't germs. They were pre-germs.

ChatGpt's reply:

"That’s a great point! — RogueAI

Oh man, I can't tell you how furious ChatGPT makes me when it tries to flatter a human.

To me the greatest difficulty here is applying General and Special Relativity to fundamental particles like electrons (to say nothing of quarks), and also to the exact moment when t = 0 in the context of the theory of the Big Bang.

Thank you for answering my question.

our problem isn't drugs it's what incentivizing people to take those drugs. They're using them to escape a meaningless depressing life. — RogueAI

Is coffee in that group, in your opinion? Do people use coffee to escape a meaningless depressing life? Honest answer.

I won't do what you tell me. — RogueAI

Well, given that you're a Rogue AI, I'm not sure that you'll do what anyone tells you to do. Isn't that kinda dangerous? It could be classified as reckless behavior on your part. What's your answer to that?

Street by street.
Block by block.
Taking it all back

The youth's immersed in poison--turn the tide, counterattack.
Violence against violence:
let the roundups begin,
a firestorm to purify the bane
that society drowns in.

No mercy, no exceptions, a declaration of total war:
the innocents' defense is the reason it's waged for.

Born addicted,
beaten and neglected,
families torn apart,
destroyed and abandoned,
children sell their bodies,
from their high they fall to drown,
demons crazed by greed,
cut bystanders down.

A chemically tainted
welfare generation
Absolute complete
moral degeneration

Born addicted,
beaten and neglected,
families torn apart,
destroyed and abandoned,
children sell their bodies,
from their high they fall to drown,
demons crazed by greed,
cut bystanders down.

Corrupt politicans,
corrupt enforcement,
drug lords and dealers:
all must fall.

The helpless are crying out
We have risen to their call.

A firestorm to purify — Earth Crisis

Life is hard. Why deprive us of our little pleasures, like smoking and drinking? — RogueAI

I'll tell you why. In the form a music video by Earth Crisis, together with the lyrics.

Street by street.
Block by block.
Taking it all back

The youth's immersed in poison--turn the tide, counterattack.
Violence against violence:
let the roundups begin,
a firestorm to purify the bane
that society drowns in.

No mercy, no exceptions, a declaration of total war:
the innocents' defense is the reason it's waged for.

Born addicted,
beaten and neglected,
families torn apart,
destroyed and abandoned,
children sell their bodies,
from their high they fall to drown,
demons crazed by greed,
cut bystanders down.

A chemically tainted
welfare generation
Absolute complete
moral degeneration

Born addicted,
beaten and neglected,
families torn apart,
destroyed and abandoned,
children sell their bodies,
from their high they fall to drown,
demons crazed by greed,
cut bystanders down.

Corrupt politicans,
corrupt enforcement,
drug lords and dealers:
all must fall.

The helpless are crying out
We have risen to their call.

A firestorm to purify — Earth Crisis

The Philosophical Exercise here would be:

1) In your honest opinion, is it fair for Earth Crisis (and Straight Edge in general) to blame societal problems solely on drugs? Or are there other elements of "society" that need to "take the blame" here, so to speak?

2) What, if any, is the actual intent behind the lyrics of their song "Firestorm"? Whatever that might be, would it be feasible and morally correct? In other words, what would be the Ethical justification for such acts? Would they even have a rationale to begin with?

3) The philosophical and political ideas of the band Earth Crisis can be accurately described as Vegan Straight Edge. It's not representative of the larger Straight Edge community (due to their commitment to Veganism), and it's not representative of the large Vegan community (due to their commitment to Straight Edge). Could you, as an honest reader, imagine a hypothetical scenario in which Earth Crisis' Straight Edge premises, together with their Vegan premises, deductively entail a contradiction?

Hi, glad to have you here, thanks for your comment. Can you please explain what you said, in a simpler way? Please.