• The dark room problem
    The Theorist in the article (the link that Banno provided) is making it more complicated than necessary. Pay attention to the Physicist's reply to the Theorist here:
    Physicist: From the point of view of the free-energy formulation there is no need to recourse to any other principles. Of course, one might find that one’s favorite principle emerges from a particular application of the free-energy principle; however, the whole point of the free-energy principle is to unify all adaptive autopoietic and self-organizing behavior under one simple imperative; avoid surprises and you will last longer.

    And in the beginning of the article, the Philosopher has also laid down the point of free-energy:
    Philosopher: The “free-energy principle” (see e.g., Friston and Stephan, 2007; Friston, 2010a) suggests that all biological systems are driven to minimize an information-theoretic (not thermodynamic, though the two are mathematically close) quantity known as “free energy.” Free energy, as here defined, bounds surprise, conceived as the difference between an organism’s predictions about its sensory inputs (embodied in its models of the world) and the sensations it actually encounters. In this discussion, surprise is used explicitly as a measure of improbability from information theory. This is also known as surprisal or self information.

    This is the principle of adaptation. The better one can interpret the sensory input of their environment, the better they can adapt for survival or whatever is needed to live as long as possible. The information theory deals with what's expected -- less surprise, or uncertainty, or unexpected, better prediction.
  • Happiness in the face of philosophical pessimism?
    ↪Nicholas Mihaila
    Try Camus. Absurdism is probably the best path out of nihilism :)     — I like sushi
    I'd say be eccentric!
  • Happiness in the face of philosophical pessimism?
    That's what I'm trying to do. I'm currently in a cafe enjoying some coffee. The existential dread is like background noise, and the coffee tastes good. :) — Nicholas Mihaila
    Awesome! Moments of bliss!
  • Collatz conjecture 3n+1
    A mathematical proof for a target statement is a series of statements which logically/deductively show that statement. It can't show something 'like' the target statement, or even make the target statement almost certainly true, it has to show that the target statement is true. The standard is pedantically high. — fdrake
    You have to be more specific than this to help answer Benk's question "what constitutes mathematical proof?"
    A math proof is a series of accepted /proven statements in the form of axioms and theorems such that the collatz assumption is guaranteed a true conclusion. (collatz may not be a good example here).
    So, even numbers can be divided evenly by 2 is an axiom -- Benk did not even question that. :up:
  • Happiness in the face of philosophical pessimism?
    My problem is that I see almost everything as completely pointless and this has profoundly affected my happiness. — Nicholas Mihaila
    I have also said in my posts in the past that happiness shouldn't be the goal -- but equilibrium. Don't expect profound enlightenment, uncontained joy and excitement, euphoria, nirvana, or on-top-of-the-world experience. Just live in the now and maintain self-equilibrium.
  • Happiness in the face of philosophical pessimism?
    The pain in my life far outweighs any joy and I'm not sure how to change this. — Nicholas Mihaila
    Hi Nicholas Mihaila. Welcome!

    Pain always has a sneaky way of appearing bigger than it really is. There's much to say about this, but one of those is that pain and/or negative emotions do have more impact on our feeling of well being than what feeling of happiness can do. It sucks. But studies have shown this is so.

    At the risk of sounding cliché, I'd say that what you're experiencing is an existential one. And yes, it eats into our motivation for the arts, and appreciation of the arts.

    Unfortunately, there's no magic anything to use for it. Live in the now, I suppose. Don't be concerned about the future.

    I like the Emil Cioran quote.
  • The compatibility between science and spirituality
    I really can't see why a sexist put down of human experts enjoying what they study is the position to have. Yes, we could eliminate the word impressive from our vocabulary, but it seems to me their passion and cooing is informative. Many other humans will react similarly when they too experience the subtlties and patterns that experts notice and find.
    Informative about what many of us will experience, that is.
    ..........I don't see why scientists need to cut out their own limbic systems or pretend they are not in awe when they are.     — Bylaw
    Hi Bylaw.
    I agree that Ligotti was a bit harsh - how dare him mentioning gender in his tirade!
    But that aside, and if it would make you feel better that I should have discarded that part when I quoted him, that's what I should have done. So duly noted for your reference.

    Reading that Ligotti quote, he is expressing the notion of scientific objectivity which he thinks should preclude spiritual awe in their work. I believe this is a critic of professional responsibility as it is of attitude. But that they do it -- while delivering their expert observations -- is what perhaps bothers him. In this regard, if we're going to take their words as experts in science, spare us the subjective spirituality they express. This is not to say they must suppress this feeling. Not at all.
  • The compatibility between science and spirituality
    ... including Ligotti (I'm a fan). :mask: — 180 Proof

    Hi Proof! :up:
  • What are odds that in the near future there will be a conflict with China?
    :rofl: :up: — TheMadFool

    :sweat: I forgive you!

    Good quote!
  • What are odds that in the near future there will be a conflict with China?
    ↪TheMadFool

    Nevermind. :yawn:
  • What are odds that in the near future there will be a conflict with China?
    ↪TheMadFool

    You're still not getting my point. In ordinary use of "what are the odds" -- you are trying to solicit answers to the tune of "likely" "most likely" "not a chance" "a small chance".

    Funny how you are so sure of your numbers -- if that's what you're thinking.
  • What are odds that in the near future there will be a conflict with China?
    "What are the odds?" is clearly a mathematical question and I've given some hints on how we might be able to actually get our hands on a number to anyone who has the information. — TheMadFool
    Incorrect. The OP or anyone can say that in normal speak, and not wanting to get the numbers. I'd say review Wittgenstein's ordinary language. We can move out of formal definitions.
  • What are odds that in the near future there will be a conflict with China?
    I'm surprised at the answers though - people seem surprisingly confident of their answers despite the fact that no one posted a figure/number and showed their work. — TheMadFool
    And by backing up your answer with numbers it makes it more believable or true?

    This is a matter of political, historical, and social events. If you couldn't be bothered to read history, and just use numbers to gain credibility, I couldn't be bothered either.

    Disclaimer: by "you" I don't mean Fool, but in general.
  • The compatibility between science and spirituality
    “One cringes to hear scientists cooing over the universe or any part thereof like schoolgirls over-heated by their first crush. From the studies of Krafft-Ebbing onward, we know that it is possible to become excited about anything—from shins to shoehorns. But it would be nice if just one of these gushing eggheads would step back and, as a concession to objectivity, speak the truth: THERE IS NOTHING INNATELY IMPRESSIVE ABOUT THE UNIVERSE OR ANYTHING IN IT.” — Thomas Ligotti
    Amen to that.
  • Stupidity
    I am talking about this at the highest degrees of status/power/influence rather than across the entire social strata simply because those that are stupid and in possession of greater status/power/influence can cause untold damage to themselves and many others whilst remaining oblivious to the fact. — I like sushi
    Good to know.

    I have to dig into history for those people -- we have historical examples.
  • Life Advice
    Stop blaming the "fine prints" for your misfortune. Read whatever you're signing, and most importantly consult other people no matter how great sounding the salesman is before agreeing.
    And if, after all the precautions have been checked, you still signed, always revisit that document -- once a month, once every two months-- and never store it in a place permanently out of sight.
  • Is dilution the solution to pollution?
    That's the answer you deserve. :cool: — James Riley
    A pop-up error should have come up.
    A thread devoted to serious talk shouldn't have nonsense like that.

    Anyway, here's a serious answer:

    You said everyone wants X, but then for those who decline to avail themselves of X, should there be an accommodation? In terms of the pollution that X creates?
    I don't understand the OP I guess. If X is legal to produce, and disposal of wastes as a result of X is also legal, then the answer is no.
  • Is dilution the solution to pollution?
    :up: — James Riley
    What's this? :confused:
  • Is dilution the solution to pollution?
    I would have liked to have heard more on what the yes would entail, but I'd be happy to put a bullet in this thread. :lol: — James Riley
    That's the answer you deserve. :cool:
  • Is dilution the solution to pollution?
    This OP badly needs an example — bert1
    Oil extraction by hexane. Canola oil.

    Does this count?
  • Is dilution the solution to pollution?
    Should any accommodation be made for those who decline to avail themselves of X in defense of needs? — James Riley
    Yes.
  • What are odds that in the near future there will be a conflict with China?
    Would you mind explaining your reasoning for this since it is obvious that China seeks to expand it's economic and military power and the US instead wishes to do everything in it's power to limit the ability of any country that is seeking to becoming a country that can rival it? — dclements

    And from that impression, you concluded there's going to be an attack?
  • What are odds that in the near future there will be a conflict with China?
    That my fears are clearly not unfounded. — Manuel
    Okay you have a point there. But rest easy, no nuclear war will happen.
  • What are odds that in the near future there will be a conflict with China?
    ↪Manuel

    And your point?
  • What are odds that in the near future there will be a conflict with China?
    I fear some mistake could trigger a nuclear war, which is not at all some crazy imagining of mine. — Manuel
    Your fear is groundless.
  • What are odds that in the near future there will be a conflict with China?
    What are the odds... — dclements
    None or very little.
  • The WFH as an emerging social class
    .
  • Receiving stolen goods
    Go figure eh. — Book273
    Wow.
  • Receiving stolen goods
    ↪Book273
    Got it.
    Yes, they could repossess the furniture. In that case ownership belongs to the store, not your friend. And he used the goods as collateral for the landlord. The landlord is left holding the bag -- well, not exactly. He (the landlord) lost $8000. Your friend was a thief. :meh:
  • Receiving stolen goods
    ↪James Riley
    :up:

    ↪Book273

    Your friend defaulted on the credit card, if he never paid it back. It's not considered theft. It's a debt that he defaulted on. There's no collateral involved between your friend and the store. The landlord could keep the furniture or sell it and keep the proceeds. But then, that's in Edmonton. Not in the US.
  • Receiving stolen goods
    Aren't pledges enforceable or unenforceable? A person can make a pledge to a charitable institution then renege on it. No consequence to the donor, except maybe piss off the would-be recipient. But if the donor received a consideration for their pledge -- say, in the form of naming a building after the donor's name -- then it becomes a contract, which is enforceable. (US contract law). Is this right?
  • A first cause is logically necessary
    Oh oh. Now you went and done it. You hinted he may have made a mistake. To which, of course, invites the response that you, rather, may have not understood. — Mww
    :blush:

    A first cause would be an alpha. .....What I conclude is that an alpha must logically exist. — Philosophim
    No it doesn't need to logically exist. That's what I'm saying. You call it a given.

    Does the conclusion make sense, or do you see a flaw somewhere? — Philosophim
    Your assumption cannot be your conclusion. This is a fallacy. Therefore, I disagree.
  • From Meaninglessness To Higher Level
    ↪Banno
    :wink:
  • From Meaninglessness To Higher Level
    That doesn't follow. Meaning is built - it is what you do. And what you do, you do together with other people. Creating meaning is inherently a communal activity. — Banno
    :meh:
  • A first cause is logically necessary
    Yikes. — Mww
    I think Philosophim's mistake is haphazardly assigning logical necessity, without question, to the "first cause", identified as Y. A better way of calling it is the given. Geometry considers this an acceptable starting point -- such as given the presence of Alpha Y, therefore X.

    But then it begs the question, do we need to have justification for the given or are we not required to provide justification for the given? Apparently no. This is simply saying, we work with what we have. Then the second question is, is there a point to our effort of building up the logical argument? Yes. Because the given is the variable one. We do not put much importance in the why of the given. What's important to us is we get to organize our thoughts, in a logical way, if the given is thrown at us.

    I wish someone would open a thread about The Given. And give it a good whipping of exposition.
  • From Meaninglessness To Higher Level
    Don't treat meaning as if it were something you find. It's not. It's something you build. — Banno
    Good point. There's something more to be said about this. Searching for meaning, which many of us may or may not do, implies a belief in the universal truth about life. Certainly, Schopenhauer believes that there is a universal truth about life, for example.

    If it's come down to this, that it is something you build, then you know meaning is subjective and to each his own. It's an admission that there's no meaning out there to be found. It's what you make it. And this does not appease some people. To some, it's a depressing thing to realize.
  • What is Being?
    It's interesting to watch her wander around the coop; she's never not had company. One wonders what, if any, sense of absence is there when she doesn't have to compete for the grain thrown on the floor, or when she finds herself alone on the perch at roost. — Banno
    They're social animals, like almost all animals are.
    The notion of "absence" -- many animals possess this. That notion is very strong when they first realized it -- elephants, cats, dogs for example. Then, of course, there's decay of that notion after certain amount of time.
  • What is Being?
    That implies that he says a lot in a small space. My impression is rather that he says very little, but in the most obtuse fashion. So: — Banno
    No, he makes things too complicated what could be explained in shorter, simpler words. From latin definition.

    *A fox got in to the hen house and played "shake the chook" last night, with only one survivor, who (not 'which'...) as a result is getting unusual attention and sympathy, including being elevated from "it" to "she". — Banno
    Sorry to know about it. :( Yes, give her much love.
  • What is Being?
    but I'd better shut up before I start copping abuse again. — Wayfarer
    Tough love. :smile:
  • What is Being?
    But then Sartre could write. — Banno
    Heidegger is dense. I gave up reading him.
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