• We Need to Talk about Kevin
    Shutting the opposition off is a short-term feel-good event -- not a good long range policy. — Bitter Crank

    I used to think that too. The statue says "Feel defeated." It just doesn't say that to everybody. The ones who can't hear it... just every blue moon a Sojourner Truth will come along with the ability to open up some ears.

    Anyway... I'm done with this forum. I actually wish you the best, dude. That was an awesome science fiction book you advised. I've since passed it on to my multitude of brothers. They liked it too.

    Bye.
  • We Need to Talk about Kevin
    That is not what you said to BitterCrank. — Hanover

    It most certainly is. I have no further comments.
  • We Need to Talk about Kevin
    "I'm only disagreeing with you to the general proposition that the appropriate response to every wrong is to file a protest." — Hanover

    I don't think the appropriate response to every wrong is to file a protest. And I didn't file any protests. I mentioned in the thread about Lee's statue that the effects of apathy about Confederate statues is like the impact it has on me that the moderators don't do anything about Agustino's sexist remarks. My point is that it effects the way I look at the whole forum.

    Baden happened to see that comment and told me I should have notified a moderator earlier and that if I had anything else to say I should start a thread in the feedback forum.

    I started the Sexism thread merely to tell him that I had talked to unenlightened and that nothing happened.

    Subsequently BitterCrank dropped by to let me know I was wasting my time trying get anything done and that I should grow thicker skin. I told him that I wasn't trying to get anything done. I was just responding to Baden in the way he told me to.

    You actually could have read all this.. if you were interested. The point is, I was surprised that a crowd of offended men showed up to make it into a mountain. I'm not even slightly surprised that you condescend to me like you think I'm a 19 year old spring chicken.

    You are actually part of the problem with this forum.
  • We Need to Talk about Kevin
    I'm only disagreeing with you to the general proposition that the appropriate response to every wrong is to file a protest. — Hanover

    That's true. I spontaneously intuited that as a youngster working in a man's world. I asked my father what to do. He told me to laugh and tell a funny joke about men. I followed that guideline with quite a bit of success. To some degree you can shape the world. I can cast you as the latest in the long line of sexist men, or i can have it that we're just telling silly jokes.

    There's one case where deflecting through joking doesn't work and your best bet is to start acting like a man so you fall off the offender's radar. Do you know what I'm talking about? Do give me some more hints on how to deal with sexism. How do you think I should factor in my intensively sexist upbringing? If I become a massage therapist (which I did), how should I handle it when men want to check and see if I'm a prostitute? What would you do? I'm sure that after working and living in this world for several decades as a woman, you must have all sorts of fascinating tidbits.

    The starting point for all of this was a comment I was making about the Lee statue. The effects of apathy.
  • The Cartesian Problem
    Chomsky says of the Meditations: "That's not Descartes." He says the Meditations was just propaganda directed at the Jesuits to persuade them to support his physics.
  • We Need to Talk about Kevin
    Think about some examples of grievous demoralization. There's no whining there. Where morale is very low, people don't do a lot of complaining because they don't think it will make any difference.

    Whining is actually a sign that the most important ingredient to good morale is on the scene: people care. They have some hope. They have expectations that the universal arc is aimed toward goodness (to mangle MLK's saying).

    My experience is also that good morale isn't something you can engineer. If the stars are right, it's there. On the other hand, good morale is fairly easy to destroy. Just treat people like things you can engineer.. that's usually the first good step toward demoralization and apathy.

    So let's go to the person who's preaching apathy. Tell him wrong. It's likely that his apathy is a coping mechanism. You're telling him to make himself vulnerable. And what's the carrot supposed to be?

    I realize now I'm not talking about this forum. I don't give a fuck about this forum. I'm talking about the United States.
  • Social constructs.
    ↪unenlightened
    Communication is 55% body language and I think 30% tone. The rest is words. So says the required seminar.

    There can be heavy cultural influence as well. The consequences for crossing established lines could be death or that you become a holy person. Depends on your culture and era.
  • ATTENTION! Petition to Introduce Guidelines Against Slander
    Please apply skin thickener to your sore spots, everyone. — Bitter Crank
    Nope. Baden says sexist comments will be deleted.
  • ATTENTION! Petition to Introduce Guidelines Against Slander
    ↪Buxtebuddha
    Never.
  • ATTENTION! Petition to Introduce Guidelines Against Slander
    ↪Buxtebuddha
    Maybe Mongolian. How should I know?
  • ATTENTION! Petition to Introduce Guidelines Against Slander
    ↪Buxtebuddha
    I won't need to. You'll be a whole new dude.
  • ATTENTION! Petition to Introduce Guidelines Against Slander
    Are you laughing because I'm a male? Look who's sexist now. — Buxtebuddha

    I advise a brain transplant.
  • ATTENTION! Petition to Introduce Guidelines Against Slander
    ↪Buxtebuddha
    LOL.
  • ATTENTION! Petition to Introduce Guidelines Against Slander
    if no one claims Agustino's a sexist, — Buxtebuddha

    Americans say "Todd is sexist." They don't say "Todd is a sexist."
  • ATTENTION! Petition to Introduce Guidelines Against Slander
    ↪TheWillowOfDarkness
    (Y)
  • ATTENTION! Petition to Introduce Guidelines Against Slander
    Please use this thread just to discuss the introduction of slander guidelines. — Agustino

    We don't have a courtroom to sort that kind of thing out. People should feel free to bring up stuff that bothers them. They should feel like the moderators will lend an unbiased ear.

    Whether anything is done about a problem.. I guess that depends on how busy the moderators are with other things. Watching total eclipses and such.
  • What Does Globalization Do to Art?
    ↪Noble Dust
    I was just saying I won't be responding further. So.. don't pose any questions or what not.

    No need to talk smack about anybody.
  • What Does Globalization Do to Art?
    ↪Noble Dust
    I did, yes. You have some misconceptions about life before the internet. I think that was pointed out to you. I won't be responding further. Thanks!
  • What Does Globalization Do to Art?
    ↪Noble Dust
    Oh.
  • What Does Globalization Do to Art?
    So you don't think the ubiquity of art in the internet age changes anything about our consumption and experience of art? — Noble Dust

    If you've only seen a Monet on the internet, you haven't experienced Monet. Doesn't matter how good your sound system is, if you've only heard jazz on youtube, you don't know what you're missing.
  • Difference between Gender and Sex
    The word for physical structure is anatomy. Gays and straights have the same anatomy. If there's a difference in how a certain stimulus is processed in homosexuals, that would have to have a physiological component.

    If the question is: does it originate in the psyche, genetics, or environment... I don't think anybody knows. Maybe it's part of everybody's potential and it's just latent in straights.
  • Sexism
    I find it very strange that some here expect Agustino to accept a pretty serious accusation against his character without a fight. — Buxtebuddha

    I really appreciate that you think it's a serious accusation. I take it seriously. Agustino has made a lot of sexist remarks on this forum and we've gotten in the habit of ignoring it. I realize it can be hard to draw a line, but the suggestion that women want to be assaulted should clearly be recognized as a particularly ugly kind of sexism.

    I've never been much of a flagger, but when I'm here I'll start using it to point out offensive comments.

    I think most of the men on this forum are not sexist... which is awesome. The sexist ones just tend to be louder.
  • Sexism
    Now they have the education and opportunity. Are they as successful as men in terms of leadership capability? No. On average they'll probably never be as successful as men in terms of leadership, because again, they are just programmed differently biologically. Women don't want to dominate, to engage in conflict, etc. Why not? Because they have lower testosterone levels. Such desires are necessary for effective leadership, maybe less so in some areas of the world today, but fundamentally they are. Only 4.2% of Fortune 500 companies have a woman CEO. Really there's no competition, here, most women simply do not have the biological drive to compete with men in terms of leadership. They excel in other attributes - peace, compassion, emotional resilience etc. being some of them. — Agustino
  • Sexism
    ↪Baden


    How many do you want?

    I think women (in the modern age, and in the West) are NOT submissive to men.

    I think women (in the modern age, and in the West) are NOT submissive to men sexually, nor intellectually.

    I think philosophers are generally dominating. Indeed, being dominating is a trait required for success in philosophy.

    I think women should be more submissive (as should men by the way) than they currently are - generally speaking. I'm saying this just cause most people are bloody selfish at the moment - which is the opposite of submissive.

    I don't think women should be more submissive to men sexually, but neither should they use sex as a way of dominating men, which, unfortunately, I see more and more women doing in the West.

    Women should be more submissive to men intellectually than they currently are, on average, as men seem to make better decision makers. Why? Because men can be ruthless, aggressive and competitive much more frequently than women, traits which are required for making great decisions in the world. This largely has to do with biological makeup (testosterone).     — Agustino
  • Sexism
    ↪Thorongil
    So a little heads up on how this works: nobody gives a shit if you're sexist or racist or whatever. It's your speech and behavior that we care about. So if you keep yourself hired, your speech and behavior are acceptable.

    Likewise, I don't care if Agustino is sexist. I just want him to keep his sexist comments to himself. Now I know that at least Baden will delete his sexist crap. He knows it too.

    Yay!
  • Sexism
    ↪Thorongil
    Diversity training is provided to protect the company from law suits. It will work.
  • Sexism
    ↪Thorongil
    When you get your job you'll probably get diversity training. They'll explain it to you.
  • Sexism
    ↪Dogar
    I'm not trying to prove anything. I already got what I wanted.
  • Sexism
    ↪Thorongil
    Why are you asking me that? I don't feel like taxing myself. I was just following Baden's advice when I started this thread. He told me I should have notified a moderator when I first had concerns. I wanted to tell him that I had talked to one, but that nothing happened.
  • Sexism
    ↪John Harris
    He doesn't have co-workers because he's unemployed. But good point... again.
  • Sexism
    ↪Thorongil
    [Deleted]
  • Sexism
    ↪Thorongil
    [Deleted]
  • Sexism
    ↪Bitter Crank
    Anyway, I seemed to have gotten what I wanted, maybe. Agustino will temper his comments in future.

    I do actually resent your response. But I assume you have your reasons. Either way I'm done witcha.
  • Sexism
    Mongrel, are you experiencing thinning skin? — Bitter Crank

    Sigh. I guess nobody cares that I was making about point about the effect of apathy when I brought this up (in another thread).

    One of my first big life lessons was that complaining about sexism is pointless. I was working as an engineer at AT&T surrounded by guys. It was the mid-80s. Big shoulder pads. But thanks for wanting to give me a bit of heads up. Jesus. You know, I have noticed that you feel the need to register your apathy every time sexism or racism comes up. Odd.

    But you're likely to not achieve a great victory in this. — Bitter Crank

    You think? I wasn't expecting any. Baden told me to respond to his comments in the Feedback section. So I did.

    [Comment deleted. Flaming is against the rules]
  • Sexism
    ↪Agustino
    You're like Trump. The smart thing to do would be to say "Oh, I'm sorry you took my comments that way. I'll be more careful in future."

    That's all I really want.. stop saying sexist crap. But no. You've got to turn it back on me like I'm the villain.
  • Sexism
    ↪Lone Wolf
    He contributed quite a bit in a thread called something like 'Are women submissive to men?'

    Otherwise look at his comments from December of last year. Prior to Trump's taking office his reactionary views were flowing pretty freely.
  • Leave the statuary in place.
    Some of the white supremacists (e.g., the Ku Klux Klan) also have a thing about Catholics who, in the United States, are mostly white. — Bitter Crank

    Most Catholics I meet have no idea how deep seated anti-Catholic sentiment once was and still is in some places. I knew a New Jersey Italian girl who was mystified that her future in-laws wouldn't come to the wedding if it was held in a Catholic Church.
  • Sexism
    ↪Lone Wolf
    You can look at his posting history by going to his profile.
  • Sexism
    Looks like somebody's buttons really got pushed...:) — John Harris

    Precisely.
  • Sexism
    ↪Lone Wolf
    I had it all up on twitter at one point. I took it down. His sexism is principled. He would like to see changes (I suppose throughout the world) wherein women lose everything they've gained in last century or so. He associates these views with religion.

    I would rather clean out the NYC sewer system than go rambling through his posts, but you can if you want. It's all there (unless he deleted it himself... which would great.)
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