If jamalrob decides to continue this site, I don't think it would be acceptable for him to ever have to put out money for it.

Whether or not it is true is beside the point. I want to know what difference the truth makes.

The truth of things like "e = mc^2" and "there's a kettle in the next room" have a causal affect in the world, irrespective of belief. But does the truth (or falsity) of "X is immoral" have a causal affect? — Yahadreas

Whether a physical law and the existence of X can rightly be called causes is an interesting question, but I think I understand what you're asking.

Condemnation is an expression of abhorrence. It is a refusal to accept the world as it is. Morality exists where people are bound to that defiance. There is no morality in total acceptance.

My experience is that acceptance comes and goes. I go back and forth between amoral and moral perspectives. I have areas of inflexibility, but those areas probably aren't the same as yours. We each develop abiding wrath according to what we experienced and how we reacted to it.

Can we trace any events to this refusal to accept the world as it is? Oh yea. There's at least one case of it described on every page of every history book ever written.

Yes, but not just photos; it also contains various stolen belongings and discarded items: a family photo, a sock, an old toothbrush, etc. I put candles around it and use it as a shrine. — Sapientia

If you have any hair, I know some voodoo people.

I have a "I Miss W" sticker on my car. I have it just to be endearing. Working? — Hanover

No. It's not nice to make fun of Miss Wyoming. It's not her fault she has trouble with English. She's not even from this planet.

I can just check my Hanover chart. It contains all the information that I've obsessively collected about Hanover over the years. — Sapientia

Chart? Like with photos connected by pieces of yarn?

In the unlikely case you'd say yes: then it's your belief that matters, not the fact-of-the-matter -- what difference does the fact-of-the-matter make? — Yahadreas

Beliefs are truth-apt. My belief is true IFF it is the fact of the matter. Could there be a world in which the statement "killing babies is moral" is true? Not if it's necessarily true that killing babies is immoral.

How do you find out if a statement is necessarily true?

@Hanover

The reason to get rid of the likes is because they're irrelevant and we care too much about them, except me. I haven't even noticed I'm in second place behind Jamalrob, who's only winning because he set up this site. — Hanover

I just mentioned and quoted Hanover. (L) And put a heart. Is there a function that counts how many times Hanover uses the word "me?"

Splitter!

I realize a diaspora from the old site isn't inevitable. It just seems likely to me... so this forum is an awesome idea. Although I pretty confidently predicted that G.W.. Bush would not be elected president. And then it happened twice, so I've learned not to listen to me.

In the years before the Romans destroyed Carthage, there were those who perceived that Rome was on the threshold of becoming a super power. One senator warned that if they destroyed Carthage (and walked over that threshold), there would no longer be anything to keep Rome strong. The good this Roman saw in perpetual warfare is an odd sort of good.

One the one hand, it threatens life. War has the potential to destroy a society. In fact, as Roman senators were debating the destruction of Carthage, the long-standing greatness of civilizations to the east was headed toward the dust-bin as a direct result of exhaustion from war.

But people (especially those who have been caught up in some great conflict) know that war also strengthens. And the Lime character points out that this isn't just the strength to fight the next war. It pervasively animates a people and their culture.

My suspicion is that there is no satisfying answer to the question.