• Bernie Sanders
    Sometimes it's OK to just say "Yeah, that was silly." This is an online forum - no need to save face. Why go on defending the indefensible? Because I can't get myself to believe you actually believe what you're saying. You're smarter than that. — Xtrix

    I couldn't find what this is referring to.
  • The Road to 2020 - American Elections
    You asked me for an honest answer and you give a knowingly dishonest interpretation. Fuck off with this dumb shit and stick to spending your days watching the XFL. — Maw

    Every single one of the Dem candidates is on record as wanting to give free health care to anyone who shows up from anywhere in the world. You think your taxes won't go through the roof to pay for that?
  • Bernie Sanders
    Do we think it's even remotely likely that -- out of the blue -- they nominate Hillary Clinton? — Xtrix

    Likely? No. Possible? Most definitely. Biden's not going to make it. They can't hide his cognitive decline much longer. They have to either replace him at the convention, or he has to pick a VP who would have credibility as president. Michelle Obama's been mentioned, as has Hillary. I'm sure if you follow political news you've seen the same speculations I have.

    You think cognitively impaired Joe is going all the way? That the hope you're going with? The Dems HAVE to have an alternative. Hillary is in the mix.
  • Disproving game theory.
    In any sufficiently complex game, given enough iterations, it can be demonstrated that both players become hyper-rational, and thus a winning strategy cannot be entertained. — Shawn

    That's not true. There are games for which one side or the other has a winning strategy.

    Analogously, think about chess for a moment. Given that chess is the oldest game in human history, and given that it is deterministic, then through enough iterations it can be demonstrated that both players, given a sufficiently long backlog of past historical games, are going to face situations where winning becomes... impossible. — Shawn

    If you have such a demonstration it's publishable as the solution to an open problem. At present nobody knows whether white, with the first move, has a forced win or not.
  • Mathematics is 75% Invented, 25% Discovered
    I appreciate this. In my opinion, though, a number is an idea that is rubbery. You can say 9 is the same as 2 in my mind. Maybe we need to just step back and accept that others have their own truth — Gregory

    But of course. You are entirely free to do that.

    The only problem is that your system wouldn't work very well and wouldn't have the usual properties we want numbers to have. Such as multiplication distributing over addition, and multiplication and addition being commutative, and so forth. If you just say 2 = 9 and that's one of your axioms, then so be it. But by the time you have fleshed out that idea and its ramifications, you'll see that you have a system that's not very interesting, mathematically. For example you have an even number equal to an odd number. So you won't be able to do much number theory.

    But there's no rule that says you can't make things up. As I say, the criterion is mathematical interest. Is it something mathematicians would be interested in? In this case, probably not. But a lot of mathematicians work on things other mathematicians are not interested in. So really, I have no objection to what you want to do.

    Now the burden is on you to work out a system that is interesting, and not just nihilistic, as in "everything's equal to everything else." What good is that? You couldn't count beans with it. So, I'll grant you that 2 = 9. Now what?
  • The Road to 2020 - American Elections
    Hard question to answer because I've only ever had top tier providers through employment because I'm fortunate to have a good job. Obviously most Americans don't have a similar experience. I also live in NYC so finding and getting to doctors, therapists, dentists, etc. that take my insurance is relatively easy, and I can't complain about the quality. That said, between various doctor/dentist/optometrist/psychologist/psychiatrist visits and medication in the last year I've probably paid over $3,000 out of pocket. — Maw

    I take that as a Yes. After all you'd pay way more than $3k if you had to pay for health insurance for all the third world peasants who desired to come here, as all Democratic candidates pledged to do at the first debate.

    I wonder if we took a poll, what would the results be. If we asked everyone on this forum if they're happy with their health care, availability, price, and quality. I bet we'd get a lot of yesses.
  • The Road to 2020 - American Elections
    Are you not an American? I have health insurance through the company I work for and I still pay medical, dental and optometry through co-pays, deductibles, and whatever is deducted from my bi-monthly salary. — Maw

    Are you happy with your health insurance? Yes or no, be honest.
  • The Road to 2020 - American Elections
    Yeah per the article those positive ratings are primarily driven by age and income, surprise surprise. Not sure where "perfectly happy" is tho. — Maw

    Most people have jobs that include health insurance. They get medical plus dental and optometry services. They're happy as clams and never think twice about their health care costs because it's all free to them.

    People on Medicare are happy because the public/private partnership makes the system work. A lot of people are on Obamacare and are moderate income so they get subsidies.

    Some people fall through the cracks and don't have health care. You want to blow up a mostly functioning system rather than fix what's broken.

    And again, even if you're right in principle, do you really think the federal government is competent enough to pull off such a huge transition? We lose all our wars, our social programs turn into welfare for bureaucrats and never lift anyone out of poverty. Do you personally want this government to be totally in charge of every aspect of your own personal health care? I can't imagine that.
  • The Road to 2020 - American Elections
    I guess you missed the Gallup Poll link I included showing that Americans are not in fact "perfectly happy with their healthcare" — Maw

    Disguised as a fart? All your utterances are thinly disguised farts.

    Here's another Gallup poll to the contrary. You got a poll, I got a poll.

    https://news.gallup.com/poll/245195/americans-rate-healthcare-quite-positively.aspx

    You know, I want to emphasize this point. Most Americans are happy with their health care. The problems that need to be fixed are on the margin. The under-served for reasons of poverty or geography. So let's figure out how to fix the problems with the system. Don't blow up a system that's already working for most Americans.
  • Bernie Sanders
    I'm not trying to make a point I'm just laughing at you because you said a dumb thing which has been apparently repeated by other people saying dumb things. — StreetlightX

    Like when the smart people said Trump could never win. You lack imagination. And an underappreciation of Hillary's all-consuming ambition.
  • The Road to 2020 - American Elections
    Yes, the situation is quite tragic. But, let's not get depressed and apathetic or cynical. Ya? — Shawn

    The DNC just changed the upcoming debate format to a town hall with the public asking questions and Biden and Bernie being seated. The fix is in to hide Biden's infirmity.

    Do any Dem voters want to tell me how long the Dems will be able to maintain this farce?
  • The Road to 2020 - American Elections
    Most Americans are perfectly happy with their health care.
    — fishfry

    *Long fart noise*     — Maw

    If you want to know why Trump is so popular, note how out of touch most leftists are about what's going on in this country. And so utterly dismissive of the possibility of ever finding out.
  • Bernie Sanders
    Why would I be unhappy I can cure cancer this is great! — StreetlightX

    The notion that Hillary will be selected by a brokered convention is OPINION.

    So even though you are trying (and failing) to say something snarky and clever, your analogy is wrong from the getgo. @Maw asked for references to OPINOINS about Hillary preparing to be nominated at a brokered convention. I supplied several of the opinions. The point you're trying to make isn't there.
  • The Road to 2020 - American Elections
    Your joshing, yes? — Shawn

    Most Americans are perfectly happy with their health care.

    Now this is where you say, "Do you have any evidence to back that up?" and I post a half dozen on-point links and someone else complains that they could look up crystal healing on Google and someone else complains that they don't like one of the authors. Like I say, slow Sunday. Hey Jesse endorsed Bernie so the Bernie fans should be happy today. Meanwhile Biden said that "We can only reelect Trump." While liberal publications frantically try to spin Joe's obvious cognitive issues as stuttering. It's to laugh.
  • Mathematics is 75% Invented, 25% Discovered
    If physically 2 feet can somehow by the laws of physics (even if in another dimension) equal 3 feet, than physics has prove that you can do whatever you like with numbers. 2=3 — Gregory

    Numbers aren't lengths. That's exactly the distinction between math and physics. In math, 2 = 2 and 2 isn't 3. In physics, our measurement the length of an object is a function of our motion relative to that object. So in physics, length is a relative term. That's why they call it relativity. In math, numbers are absolute.

    Of course we use math as a tool in physics. But the essential nature of mathematical objects is that they are abstract and conceptual; in no way "true", but only logically consistent, interesting, and perhaps useful. Those are the only criteria for mathematical existence. In fact we may even dispense with logical consistency, as we don't know for certain that our modern math is consistent; and we may dispense with utility, because it's the appliers of math, and not the mathematicians themselves, who care whether math is useful.

    Whereas length, mass, electric charge, and so forth, are descriptions or models of the physical world. The models use math but are not the same as math.

    tl;dr: Math isn't physics.
  • The Road to 2020 - American Elections
    We shouldn't forget that if Americans pay the most for health care, they also have the highest income on average. Some stats put median income or household disposable income of Norway, Luxembourg perhaps Switzerland higher than in the US. If you pay much, you also get much income also. — ssu

    I don't actually defend the US system of health care. The corporate medical practices, the pill industrial complex, the waste and the bureaucracy. But our standard of care is very high and very available. I brought up the NHS recently and someone said I'm wrong or just arguing from one article I've found. I've heard bad stories of the NHS for years. The American system provides very high quality care to a lot of people. Some people are unfairly under-served. The question is how to deal with the bottom 25%, not blow up the system that's working for the 75%. In my opinion, of course. I realize we have in this forum many avid leftists who adhere essentially to the Marxian point of view. Myself I'm partial to Groucho.
  • Bernie Sanders
    I Googled crystal healing and now I can cure cancer gee thanks Google. — StreetlightX

    I'm only responding because your remark is so disingenuous as to make me wonder why you bothered.

    Someone asked me for references to support an opinion I expressed. I found them some references. Now you're unhappy I posted references.

    Whatever dude. I admit it's a slow Sunday. I'm watching the XFL game. For a jonesing fan of the NFL this is like a heroin addict making do with an aspirin.
  • The Road to 2020 - American Elections
    Do you have evidence to support this? — Shawn

    You joking? It's perfectly well known. Do your own research. No Democrats are even bothering to defend Obamacare anymore.

    ps ok I did a quick search. Second time in the last five minutes I did someone's Google research for them. Why? You don't know how to use Google?

    It's perfectly obvious what happened. Obamacare hugely raised premiums, that's well known. The poor got subsidies. The self-employed got absolutely destroyed. You could look it up.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=obamacare+raised+premiums&oq=obamacare+raised+p&aqs=chrome.0.0j69i57j0l2.3120j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2016/07/28/overwhelming-evidence-that-obamacare-caused-premiums-to-increase-substantially/#58bd168715be

    https://www.heritage.org/health-care-reform/report/how-obamacare-raised-premiums

    https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/071415/did-obamacare-make-premiums-go.asp

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/10/08/obamacare-premiums-democrats-donald-trump-insurance-aca-coverage-mandate-column/1444804002/

    https://www.cms.gov/blog/thank-obamacare-rise-uninsured

    https://abcnews.go.com/Health/health-care-premiums-rising-obamacare/story?id=43047190
  • Bernie Sanders
    Plenty of political commentators have made the same point.
    — fishfry

    I'm honestly curious who these commentators are     — Maw

    You can enter "Hillary presidential speculation" into Google and get dozens more similar links. Have you not noticed that she's all over the airwaves lately? New documentary out? Bill making blowjob excuses? You see this and it never occurs to you that she's positioning herself for a brokered convention?

    https://nypost.com/2020/03/07/democrats-hunt-for-trump-slayer-may-lead-to-hillary-clinton-comeback-goodwin/

    https://www.newsweek.com/dick-morris-hillary-clinton-presidential-run-1468035

    https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/10/whos-driving-the-clinton-2020-rumor-mill

    https://www.foxnews.com/media/hillary-clintons-the-only-one-who-can-end-2020-campaign-speculation-brazile

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/25/politics/hillary-clinton-2020/index.html
  • The Road to 2020 - American Elections
    Yes, the magical free markets. If you're open to changing your positions, read the following with an open mind. If not, ignore it. But it's a very good analysis. — Xtrix

    I'm a big fan of Chomsky. Many of his positions I disagree with. On foreign policy I'm a Chomskyite all the way. And when it comes to knocking the New York Times, Chomsky is the one who's spent decades meticulously documenting their ruling class, warmongering soul.
  • The Road to 2020 - American Elections
    fishfry suffers from a particularly virulent form of LDS (left derangement syndrome). Red man = bad. Reading his posts at least gives an insight into how the powered and privileged have convinced much of the country that everything not in the interests of a tiny wealthy elite is "socialism" Mao! Stalin! Castro! :scream: There is no vaccine for that except the ability to think. — Baden

    Completely false. I'm a lifelong social liberal and registered Democrat (still am, voted for Tulsi in California) who is utterly appalled at what's become of the left and the Democrats. And I'm not the only one. Trump could not have won with only the support of the deplorables. He won when tens of millions of people who voted for Obamain 2008 and 2012 either stayed home or voted for Trump in 2016. I'm one of them. I didn't leave the Democrats. The Democrats left me. Just ask the Democratic voters in Wisconsin and Michigan and Pennsylvania who Hillary ignored at the cost of her presidency.
  • The Road to 2020 - American Elections
    We've seen again and again how the Democrats have failed in the health care reform or how watered down it has been in the end. — ssu

    Yes that is part of my point. Forget the right and wrong or comparisons with other countries. There's a pure competence argument to be made. The rollout of Obamacare was a disaster of epic proportions. It utterly failed to bring down costs and sent premiums skyrocketing for self-employed people and small business owners.

    Even if one believed in universal, mandatory, government-run health care -- is the US government the government you want in charge of your health care? I say no, and I'd point to the ongoing scandal of the VA as evidence.
  • The Road to 2020 - American Elections
    Yes. But since I don't have Tom Perez in front of me, you'll have to do. — Xtrix

    My point exactly. But I'm a poor proxy for the DNC. I'm a disinterested spectator of the ongoing Democratic train wreck. Thus my remark. Why vent your frustration with me? It's the establishment Dems sticking the knife into your guy Bernie. And I detest the establishment Dems. You and I have the same enemy.
  • The Road to 2020 - American Elections
    People overwhelmingly like medicare, actually. — Xtrix

    A deeply disingenuous point, which you'd understand if you knew the first thing about Medicare.

    Medicare is a public/private partnership. Private insurance companies offer Medicare drug programs, Medicare supplemental insurance, and Medicare advantage. Those programs add flexibility and individual choice to Medicare.

    M4A as envisioned by Bernie (and Liz before she abandoned it) eliminates the private component and forces everyone into a one-size-fits-all program.

    To have written what you wrote, that people overwhelmingly like Medicare, you must either be ignorant or disingenuous. People love Medicare as it currently is implemented: as a public/private partnership. When you take all the flexibility and choice out of it, people will hate it.
  • Bernie Sanders
    Hillary to the rescue. That's my prediction. DNC will nominate Hillary.
    — fishfry

    Wait you actually think this?     — StreetlightX

    It's a definite possibility. And I'm not the only one who thinks that. Plenty of political commentators have made the same point.
  • Bernie Sanders
    Bernie just got the endorsement of Jesse Jackson. Will help cut into Biden's popularity among African-Americans. Will be a bitter, divided convention. Hillary to the rescue. That's my prediction. DNC will nominate Hillary. The only possible conclusion to the long American Clintonian psychodrama.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/08/politics/jesse-jackson-bernie-sanders-endorsement/index.html
  • The Road to 2020 - American Elections
    Great, then let's have a discussion about those plans and numbers. I'd be happy to. — Xtrix

    I'm politicked out for the moment. Health care policy is very wonky, I only get into it to a certain level. In general I favor liberty and individual choice, so instinctively I push back on any kind of one-size-fits-all system imposed from the top down by a government that does not exactly have a good track record for competence.

    That's a set of sensibilities that inform the way I process the evidence. So you and I could well look at the same numbers and statistics and come away with different conclusions. You prefer collective solutions and I prefer individual ones. We're not going to resolve that difference by looking at data.

    I am a little burnt out on politics. If I allowed myself to care I'd be pretty pissed today that my candidate Tulsi Gabbard was just excluded from the Dem debates. Can you imagine that brilliant, beautiful, strong, vibrant, accomplished 38 year old woman on the stage with those two fossilized relics? The American people might start listening to Tulsi's powerful anti-war message and we can't have that. So they change the rules to exclude Tulsi, just as they changed the rules to allow in Bloomie. Who ironically would have been far better off if he'd stayed out!

    If there's a less democratic institution in the country than the Democratic National Committee I don't know what it would be.

    And those liberal women crying sexism about Liz? Think they'll stand up for Tulsi? Me either.

    I'm just going to sit back and see how this goes. It's all theater at this point. Arguing the fine points of health care policy isn't something I want to do right now. But like I say. It's not me you need to convince. It's all those suburbanites who just came out for Joe; and the youngsters who didn't come out for Bernie. That's the story this week. As somebody wrote, maybe Bernie picked a bad week to double down on Cuba.
  • The Road to 2020 - American Elections
    If you think a democratic process resulting in a medicare for all solution is authoritarian — Benkei

    Two wolves and a sheep deciding what to have for dinner. I prefer liberty. The left has a tremendous authoritarian streak. See Mao, Stalin, Castro, etc. The US is not a democracy, by the way. It's a Constitutional republic.

    I never once said you're my "enemy." Not once, not ever. I'm sure you're a good person. I wish you no harm. I am frustrated and repulsed by your argumentation. Again, if it's a struggle to square these two things, then I can't help that. I make the assumption that people who show up on a philosophy forum are fairly resilient, educated adults. — Xtrix

    You're overreacting to a figure of speech. Let me rephrase.

    I am not the person you need to be arguing with. It's your fellow Democrats who soundly rejected Bernie on Super Tuesday. Your political argument is with them, not me.

    Is that a more clear representation of what I'm saying?

    Let me put it another way. I feel for you Bernie supporters. You must be in pain right now. If it makes you feel better to think that convincing me of the error of my ways would help your cause, feel free. In that way I'm performing a public service.

    So it's ok. You think I'm wrong to want to make my own health care decisions; and that I must not be allowed to do so? I assume you wouldn't normally be so uncharitable except for your political grief. It's going to get worse. The NYT is smearing Bernie as a tool of Putin as we speak. That's your enemy, and now I do use the word literally. The New York Times is the enemy of us all. It represents the forces that Trump and Bernie alike are fighting.

    But when you presume to tell me that you demand and insist to make my health care decisions for me. I will always push back on authoritarianism.

    Choice, remember? I thought your side was all into Choice. Free markets give consumers choices. I stand with free markets as the most effective means of delivering goods and services to the greatest number of people. If you don't believe me, drop in to your local grocery store.
  • Mathematics is 75% Invented, 25% Discovered
    I never understood to this day why
    anything to the ^0 power is equal to 1     — flame2

    There are a lot of good mathematical reasons why this is true. One way is to write down the integers on the top row of a table, and directly underneath each integer , write , like this:

    ... -3      -2      -1      0     1     2     3     4  ...

... 1/8     1/4     1/2     ?     2     4     8     16      ...

    Now what should go underneath 0 for the pattern to make sense? It's clear that each time we move one position to the right, we multiply the number on the bottom row by 2. The only sensible definition of is 1.

    In other words this definition is not arbitrary, it's natural.

    Related to this idea, we want this exponent rule to be true: . So what is, say, ? On the one hand, it's ; and if we want the exponent rule to be true, we must have .

    If you want to think of it this way, the definition of is arbitrary, in the sense that we could make the notation mean anything that we wanted it to. But we also want to make a sensible, natural definition; and the most sensible and natural thing is to define .

    The same reasoning applies to any nonzero number raised to the 0 power. Defining it to be 1 makes the most sense.
  • Theory of Consciousness Question
    Is there a philosophical theory where all conscious beings are actually believed to be the same being? — trufflebasket

    Jung's collective unconscious?
  • The Road to 2020 - American Elections
    God knows why people such as you have such an issue with government run healthcare — Benkei

    People "such as me" would include a big majority of the Democratic primary voters, who resoundingly pushed back on Bernie. Take it up with them, not with me. As I told another Bernie supporter the other day, I'm not your enemy. Your fellow Dems are the ones who have it in for your candidate. I'm just spectating.

    I do apologize that I'm politicked out and will skip discussing the details of health care policy. I've been watching this since Hillarycare blew up in 1993, I've lived through Obamacare, and now we have Medicare for All, which will inevitably degrade to health care for none. You want to defend the VA? That's government health care.

    But to answer your question directly, as to why I'd feel that way, I instinctively distrust any humongous one-size-fits-all government program. I do like Mayor Pete's idea of Medicare for all who want it; that is, a public option. But giving people choices is not what leftists are about. It's their way or the highway, and that's the kind of authoritarianism I oppose. Not to mention the competence issue. The government could never pull it off, even with the best of intentions.
  • The Road to 2020 - American Elections
    Unless a new global religion appears. I guess that might do it. So anyway, I don't see the point in trading pithy comments about politics. My head is located a few centuries or millennia from now. — frank

    Agreed, I'm politicked out. The DNC just changed their rules to ban Tulsi from the debate. Can you imagine her appearing alongside those two fossilized relics Bernie and Biden? The contrast would be so striking, Americans would start listening to her anti-war message. Can't have that.

    Even though we knew it was coming, I'm sad today. Let's see if the left squawks about misogyny over Tulsi. I'm not holding my breath.

    To be fair, if senile and corrupt were things that would disqualify someone, then Trump wouldn't be president right now. — Mr Bee

    He seems pretty sharp to me. Blew up the Republican party then blew up the Democratic party, confounding the experts and beating the "inevitable" Hillary. Survived three years of everything the "#resistance" could throw against him. Unleashed the most vibrant economy in the world. Stood up to China. Didn't start any new wars.

    You call that senile. That makes you look like you have your hands over your eyes while you shout insults at a guy you don't like and whose achievements you won't recognize. Or as it's called, Trump Derangement Syndrome. You got it bad.
  • The Road to 2020 - American Elections
    Hard to take you seriously at all. — Maw

    Likewise.
  • The Road to 2020 - American Elections
    These types of posts are so funny. — Maw

    You replied to me the same way twice in a row but never tried to make a point. What is your point?
  • The Road to 2020 - American Elections
    Now you're just playing semantics and pretend you don't know what it means when people refer to free universal health care. Taxes are not through the roof. I'm in the highest tax bracket and pay a premium for health care insurance. — Benkei

    I get that you disagree with me. I don't want the US government running my health care. They can run yours if you like. How is that? Isn't that Mayor Pete's plan, Medicare for all who want it? I would go with a public option as it used to be called. Let free enterprise and the government compete and see which system people prefer. You ok with that?
  • The Road to 2020 - American Elections
    Unfortunately for Bernie he is not breathing enough fire. He has the excited base but is too scared or too principled to hit Biden for whatever reason. — NOS4A2

    "Nobody wants to hear about emails." He lost the nomination that night. He should have hit her hard on her corruption and incompetence handling classified data. Instead he wants to be a "gentleman" and make nice. That's his fatal flaw. He came out yesterday and said what a great guy Joe is. He should be hammering Joe on corruption and warmongering. Let's see what happens next debate.

    Rumor has it they'll change the rules to keep out Tulsi, who just won herself a delegate and thereby qualified. Can you imagine Tulsi up there with those two fossils? She could get elected president just by not being an 80 year old guy.
  • The Road to 2020 - American Elections
    ↪fishfry He just strikes me as good. He may actually be the devil incarnate.

    Are you a pacifist?     — frank

    I don't believe I wrote the words quoted. But as I say I voted for Tulsi as a symbolic vote against the war machine. I would not call myself a pacifist. I'm not against all wars. I'm against stupid, evil wars run for profit and against the national interest. All of our effing Middle East and North African wars since 9/11, to pick several you may have noticed yourself. I would say that the Dems lost me the day Hillary voted for the Iraq war (and gave cover to all the other Dems to do the same); and then when Obama chose to institutionalize rather to investigate and punish Bush's lawless torture regime.

    And, I also happen to prioritize foreign policy. The left these days is more interested in domestic issues. Before Obergefell I used to say that if you throw the liberals a bone on gay marriage they'll look the other way on torture. That's my take. I support gay rights but not at the expense of our wretched and appalling foreign policy.

    Hope that was a suitable response to your question. By the way between Trump and Biden, Trump is the peace candidate.
  • The Road to 2020 - American Elections
    No, they don't. Not if you make an attempt at understanding Bernie, of course. If you're not willing to understand his position, fine. In that case, refrain from "translating" until you do or simply don't talk about it. — Xtrix

    I've noted several times that I perused his latest plan on his website and consulted several sources who analyzed the probable costs, the spending ramifications, and the dubiosity of his revenue projections. I've also run the numbers of the total wealth of all the billionaires in the country versus projected federal spending under Bernies plans as described, I repeat yet again, on his website. The government would be broke within a few years and they'd be into the millionaires and then the middle class.

    I've made these points several times. If you want to claim, after the posts I've written recently, that I make no attempt to understand Bernie, I'm not interested in further conversation. I written extensively and clearly on the subject. If you want to toss false and gratuitious stinkbombs then as Donna Brazile said to Ronna McDaniel the other day, you can Go to Hell.

    She's a Dem by the way so I'm just stooping to the latest socially acceptable parlance used by your side. She's the one who gave Hillary debate questions in advance. Why's she even on tv?

    Bottom line is I've made substantive posts repeatedly recently on this subject and all you've got is a totally unfounded and untrue personal attack. Have a nice day.

    Oh and also when it comes to Bernie, I'm not your enemy. I like him a lot better than I like Biden. Your beef is with the DNC and the media, with Obama working in the background, who just knifed Bernie in the back. You did notice that I hope. Liz stayed in long enough to hurt Bernie on Super Tuesday then dropped out without endorsing anyone.

    You think I'm your problem? I hope Bernie comes out fighting hard and calls Joe on his corruption and warmongering. Let's see if he does.
  • The Road to 2020 - American Elections
    No, he's a good man. It feels good to have a good person in charge. That's enough.
     — frank

    Ok just help me out here on this "Joe's a good person" bit, or that he represents a "return to normalcy" etc. He's a tool of the banking industry, helped pass the punitive bankruptcy bill of the Clinton era that hurt many people. He's a warmonger. He hates civil liberties and has even bragged about writing the original draft of what eventually became the Patriot act. He's been on the wrong side of every major issue for the past forty years. He's spent decades corruptly enriching his family.

    His schtick is to pose as friendly Uncle Joe, "just regular folks." Behind the scenes he's a venal, corrupt, warmongering shit. That's before his recent obvious cognitive decline.

    Can you explain why you think he's a good guy?

    The rest is the delusion that we control any of this. — frank

    I have no such illusions. I voted for Tulsi in the California primary as a protest vote against the war machine.
  • The Road to 2020 - American Elections
    Ah yes, another amazing piece of statistical analysis from the "American Thinker" by a blogger considering one single anecdote compared to the alternative course of events in the US that he simply imagines. — boethius

    This is not the thread to debate health care policy. To my mind, government-run health care would be the worst of the post office and the VA. Note that current Medicare is a public/private partnership, with private companies having a central role via Medicare Supplemental and Medicare Advantage plans. You abolish private insurance and you take all the flexibility out of the system. And when has a government takeover of industry ever resulted in cost reductions? Medicare for All as Bernie sees it would be a humanitarian disaster.
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