a human brain's interpretation of life indeed is the experiences it contains but also the judgments of all those experiences which will give the person a jaded perspective of reality .... I agree with your statement ....



but is that life ?

how about life just is ..... your interpretation of it will not have an impact on its reality ... it will certainly affect your opinions , but reality is unchanged regardless of your viewpoints .... so you then have to be open to the possibility that life perhaps is a concept beyond what the limited mind can grasp .... remember that our brains operate under a set of boundaries .... time and space ..... if we can contemplate for a second that life can exist outside of that time/space construct ... then you have to accept that your limited interpretation of life .... is sort of like looking at a cruise ship passing by and you for one moment as it went by you , all you focused was one window of the cabin passing by .... so in your mind that is the extent of the cruise ship .. a window ...

that is unfortunately the limitations of the mind and our judgments of what we perceive as reality ..... so in my opinion your question is .....


what is phyiscal life ..... well , you already answered it .... rise and fall of form ... that is physical life ..it applies to everything equally ...... but if there is something beyond that physical world how come it cannot be at least contemplated as life itself also .....

a possible issue i see when people try to evaluate morals as somehow being compliant with gods will ....... here is the issue I see (and I am not disagreeing with anything I am simply giving a point of view)

our egos detest the idea of subjecting ourselves to someone else's code of conduct .... that is evident .... so in that sense we question morality as is it our own or the divine's will .....


how about you attempt to look at it like this ........


when you are hungry ..... how do you know ? you feel it ..... how do you know you are abiding by nature's law ....when you eat and the feeling gets replaced by no hunger. That is nature's law (feel free to call it god's law ...there is no distinction)

now let me ask you .... is it free will if we do not eat ? and food is available ?? .... our morality which i rather not use that word because morality implies rights and wrongs ....and there are NO rights and wrongs in life ...those are our interpretation of events ....good or bad is a judgment , and not even god judges in spite of what people want to believe ....

life is .... as it is ..... if you live in your mind , you will deviate in many forms from your nature as a noble creature that doesnt obey , but simply lives in harmony and with integrity ... of true self ...not the mind made cloud.

a dog has more integrity than humans ... for one simple fact .... it abides by it's nature ...we simply do not , not until the mind subsides and allows space between you , the consciousness that is ....and the physical world that unfolds as you experience life .... until that goes away .... our predominant state is of immediate judgment .... good/bad .... no such thing

1. what I am describing certainly is having a better attitude ..... but why can this one have it and that one cannot ? because they have different states of mind ..... a person who is not run by ego accepts life as it is ....not as you wish it could be ... it is your nonacceptance of the falling event that creates a problem , .... where you to fully accept it and forgive it ... you would then simply be subject B.


2. no ..... that is not how it manifests itself ...... detachment has nothing to do with lack of care or love ....that is a misinterpretation of what it actually means . detachment is to not NEED your girlfriend , but to openly love her which always flows outward and does not need a thing in return ..... detachment will bring you closer to what is real , what is not of this physical world and it will put distance with forms from the physical world .... detachment is the loss of neediness , of insecurities , of control and manipulation


to answer your final statement , ..... both individuals had the exact neurotransmitters fire and do everything identically (within reason ) ..... has nothing to do with biology (except the one that applies to ever changing connection of the brain for new concepts or ideas etc) .....


now let me ask you this .... and it may sound ridiculous ... but since you brought up biology I am going to answer with a biological creature that for all practical purposes is the same for this exercise.


place a dog in this situation ...walks the yard ..trips over the hose .... what is the dogs reaction ????

100% of the times every single dog will react identically .... get up and may notice what it tripped on or not ...the moment is accepted and forgiven immediately ....forgiven simply means to hold no resentment .....


the dog has all the same body parts as the human .... why such a difference >?? the dog does not live in his mind ....it lives under the law of nature which is in our souls ....once the mind activity subsides and you return home .... you no longer sin ...you no longer miss the mark ....what mark ? natures law ..... the flow of life ... I understand if this may not be understandable and that is due to my limited capacity at communicating something
that is infinitely larger than my language

why would i feel under attack ? you are entitled to your opinions , for me to have my beliefs doesn't come into conflict with someone who simply has their limited perspective .... a mountain is what YOU have created and labeled , so it's death is your interpretation of its existence ..... you make a distinction between a mountain , a hil and a flat surface all containing the exact elements ...no one on earth but humans make that distinction ....so the mountains death has nothing to do with it disappearing ... it only has to do with your interpretation of those elements positioned in a specific order to create what YOU and ONLY YOU call a mountain (YOU i amusing as humans)


so what you call destruction is simply your mind not accepting that there is no destruction , there is only forms ever changing ..... I am perfectly fine disagreeing , even you correcting my spelling , if it makes you feel better pointing out I am wrong I won't take it personally ... I don't make comments to be right , I share what I have experienced and you may want to keep an open mind that academics only get you so far in life ....and at some point you may or may not realize that your mind is a tool , clever indeed ....but limited ..... if that offends you because I am diminishing your mental prowess that is not really my intention , I am simply sharing with you that the mind is a limited tool .... and it cannot go beyond the confines of time and space .... if you would like me to elaborate I will give it a try .....

the concept of infinity or eternity ....can it be grasped by the mind ? sure you will give me what the dictionary says ...great !!! .... now please explain to me infinity or eternity with rational terms please and let's see where this goes if you don't mind ....

lie to your self ...we do it all the time , we compromise ethics , we convince ourselves it's their fault , you assume they don't like you .... all forms of lying to your self


now ... can you lie to YOU .... no .... deep down if the mind quiets there is never a single doubt as to action needed , so to pretend we do not know something that is internal is a lie in itself .....


the answer to your question depends which you we are speaking about , the self image/ego .... or the consciousness capable of observing thought without judgment .... one yes , the other one no

there are two realities , the unmanifested which does not exist in a time/space construct ....and then we have the physical world which rises and falls , it is born and dies ..... but what dies ?

if a tall mountain gets eroded by the wind for a million years to a hill ..... has the mountain died ? Because the dirt that the wind picked up is now part of the ground ..... so what was destroyed ??

your label of the mountain , .... the mountain can only be destroyed when you change it's label .... so is the mountain the entire gigantic pile of dirt and rock ??? .... ok ... if that is the case , what if we only do 50 years of erosion and only say 10,000lbs of dirt has flown off the mountain ... well thats hardly noticeable so I guess the mountain didnt get destroyed .....

so now if that is the case ..... at want point does destruction of the mountain take place ?? 51% of its volume gone ?? the issue is that you assign a value to a specific form that at THIS SPECIFIC moment in time looks like what we call a mountain ..... but a million years from now the molecules that made the mountain are still going to be intact ...they are simply going to be scattered in a flatter formation ......


this is the physical world ....everything that is , will always be .... just not in the same form .



the unmanifested , the space that allows the manifested to rise and fall does not operate under the time and space construct of our minds ....which is why you will never be able to rationalize the concept of god ..... the mind is too limited

I completely understand what you mean , how can you interpret a world without a perspective , without an ego .... I am not saying the ego does not interpret events , it does ..... but the egos perspective is so narrow that it is not reality , but more a blink of an eye on a 60 minute event.

let me see if i can explain properly , and forgive me if i do so poorly .......


I am walking on my front yard , and I trip over a garden hose and land on the grass .... a common reaction would be to complain or snap .... blurt out a curse word , get up ...look at the hose and kick it blaming it for now making you completely drenched !!!!!!

now if I may , I will dissect this ..... when I trip and fall on the grass the ego interprets that event as a problem , so it reacts .... the thought judges the situation , the body reacts with emotion .... that is the process of the ego when it is under threat . Now , .... the ego got up and now we must look for blame , and the hose is surely the culprit !!! if it wasn't there it wouldn't have knocked me down ...the ego will hold on to this moment with resentment for a while ...maybe hours or even the day ....

here is the same human being after he has reached possibly a shift in consciousness , enlightenment , found god ....whatever term makes people feel warm and fuzzy ...whatever term we use will never be accurate (that is sadly the point here )


I am walking on my front yard, and i trip over a garden hose and and on the grass ...... I look up make sure everything is right , get up .... maybe chuckle at my clumsiness ..... look down at the hose and put it in a place where it would be less likely for me to trip over next time .


the event is the same .... there was never a problem , problems do not exist ...the mind creates situations into problems ...this is how it maintains control .



now what is the difference ??? subject A ... does not live in the present moment , he lives in thought , when he trips he invokes all the wrong doings done to him into his memory and unleashes for all the injustices of the past ....ego , thought , can only live in the past or the future ...it cannot exist in the moment .... so if you are bound by thought , you will use the memories you have to react to an event ....

but ... if you are present , if you allow things to be as they are , instead of what you wish they could be , you would experience life much differently , the go has a tiny section of perspective .....the consciousness that watches the mind does not judge .... so you do not jump to conclusions and push them as facts ..... the person that lacks ego , allows the mistake to be without judgment nor resentment ...and if something needs to be done to not trip again you do so , from a place of intelligence that does not need to create drama .



that is the best way i can describe it ..... I have felt things that if someone told me about 10 years ago I would have been the first to throw a tomato to ..... but we each have our path of suffering which opens the possibility of salvation ....... I sincerely thank you for engaging in this conversation , I never have to agree with someone , nor disagree .... we are here because something draws us near each other .....

great reply and I am glad you are asking from your perspective .... I will never claim I have answers , I have experienced something that has shifted my perception on reality so when I try to communicate my opinions they come from a place of experience on the non believer side of god (which was most of my life , to the belief of that which connects us all )

your first question is , why do we have to to agree .... you do not have to agree to anything , you do not have to pull your hand away from a fire .... you make a choice to do so . This is a little more complex because what drives you away from your connection to Being , god , universe ...whatever incomplete term we use. ..... is your mind , and it's belief that it is YOU .

it isn't , its a tool .... much more powerful than a hand or a foot , but it is a tool nevertheless .... unfortunately because it has the ability to create a self ...an ego .... it also has the ability to assume control of your actions , if you are not present and grounded in the only reality that ever is , the present moment.... which is eternal by nature.


as far as your story about the worker that gives away everything ...... you have to take into consideration that for humanity to return to a state of grace , where our actions are one with natures law , it would take thousands of years of de training our minds to stop using money , manipulation , deceit , violence ....and all those things that separate and diminish us as an ethical species ....


now if i may , i will address the ego experiencing life .


this is my belief based on my experiences , .... your ego , identity ... it is simply an accumulation of memories and reactions , those memories are what you assemble into a story and you call it you . Fir example , my name is Rodrigo ... and according to what almost all humans believe I am a 45 year old man , that went a german private school , came to the US at age 13 , .... has always liked cars , has a charming personality and loves animals and kids. ... i can add a few more years and decades of info but you get the point .... that is the conventional way we describe who I am


but that is not who you are , those are simply your experiences .... and they are memories and memories only allow you to live under the interpretation of those experiences , which are ALWAYS a limited perspective on the entire event you are judging and storing into your memory.

So this entity , we call Rodrigo ... starts to believe the world around him is the fraction of what he saw , his vantage point of life .... the problem is if you now add 7 billion people to the equation , now you have those with other experiences and their perceptions of the SAME circumstances will be completely different . does the ego experience the life ..... no


and i can tell you this with 100% certainty , because there may be a point when you will realize that the mind can actually be observed as it thinks , and if the mind can be observed ....if you can put space between YOU and your thoughts , you will notice one very peculiar thing ..... the mind is its own entity ....and if you are present , you can observe its incessant nature to overthing , plot and repeat the mental babel that most humans play over and over in their head


your final question ...why should we serve the collective ...... when you strip the ego , what remains is pure peace and joy and THAT version of you will experience life in a manner that the very fragile and insecure ego cannot .... and you are not serving any collective , you are not being mandated by god ..... those are illusions of men that hide behind god to push their own ego

last thing i will say ..... there is not one thing I can share with you , that you do not already know within your core.... the only difference is that the mental noise in your head , has severed this connection , which when regained , you will not ask people questions because you will feel them as truth ....and I mean old truth .


thanks for taking the time to discuss , I only say what I believe in my soul (and I am not a religious person at all , religion is .... another subject .... but the internal connection to all , that I feel and I don't need an equation or theorem to know it is more real than anything that is in form thought.



:)

https://www.pbs.org/faithandreason/theogloss/imago-body.html




I appreciate the full explanation , and while it does attempt to describe some relationship between our state of being and his image .... why exactly are we the only chosen ones ? does that sound like one love of all ? .... it sounds like mankind needs to be special and god of course conformed this for us to make it true.

we also take after "him" with "rational structure" .... rational structure implies having a brain right ?? because rationalizing something doesn't get done with the soul ... more like the brain ... so god has a brain .....

the passage you quote certainly seems more eloquent and closer to the truth in the beginning , but in my opinion it starts to contradict itself ...... a book written by men will always have men's opinions and judgments on them ......


i am ok with disagreeing

i will start with a simple statement .... before you judge it , simply observe the peculiar nature of it all ..
the bible says something along the lines of .... "and he created man in his own image " .....
so god has arms , legs , wears shoes ...definitely shaves ...and I hope he brushes his teeth .

or perhaps .... man created god in HIS image to enhance his ego even more .... which one sounds more realistic knowing what we know of this species we call humans .


with that said , once you believe this deity is just an exaggerated version of us with supernatural powers , everything you conceive is biased by the simple fact that you believe his (again ...his ??? a guy ... interesting , coincidence that this is a male dominated planet .... hmmm ..must be coincidence ) rituals and ways to go about things is like us .... uses imagination to create .... thought or imagination is a phantom form created by the mind , imagination has no existence outside a human mind.

if you want to experience a bit closer of an answer to what , who is god .... start by questioning who YOU are ....beyond your name and life experiences ....

there are concepts of the universe , such as infinity and eternity that seems almost supernatural and while we may speculate about this or that ... all they are is speculations ....

but I will leave you with a powerful pointer to the reality that is life .....


there is one thing that is eternal in nature and regardless of any condition of the universe it will never cease to exist ...... the present moment , it has always been , it always is and it will always be Now ...

question your existence solely in the present moment and you may find the answers you seek , don't be surprised when your questions no longer need answers .

what does god need to decide on ?

is it realistic to think that this phenomenon that connects us all internally and exists in a realm impossible for us to fathom .... we think he needs to make decisions ?? when he will make it rain ?


the concept of god or life nature is one that does not need decisions , it follows a pure way of existence .... with integrity ... it is loyal to its nature hence there is no deviation from what is ....

what decisions would god need to make ? .......

"The above can be viewed in two ways. One is to see that without any consequences to a self that doesn't exist we really don't have to care about our actions. The other, the better way, I presume, is to continue to act morally despite this fact."





the soul , the inner essence of your being does not plot for the future .... so when a choice is made and consequences evaluated that is not your essence , that is your mind calculating ..... what buddha may be referring to is the simple evolution of your consciousness that indeed will take place .....

suffering is the path to enlightenment and while the body and the mind are the ones in the physical world experiencing the events , it is the consciousness that is the one that rises beyond the minds limited capacity to transmute the suffering into light by acceptance and forgiveness

you are comparing the physical traits of a human being with the consciousness .... but you have to distinguish consciousness from personality traits ...they are not the same ... personalities are developed through experiences , where the consciousness simply exists and is aware ... but does not judge so it does not need to develop a personality .... so the traits we pass on through DNA most certainly apply to the physical aspect of humans ..... and contemplating that humans may be the only beings that may have this consciousnesses is simply our egotistical nature to prove to everyone that WE are the chose ones from god ...... nonsense


don't confuse consciousness with mental awareness of the physical world around you and the human concepts that only we know about because they only exist in thought form .....

consciousness is an intelligence beyond that of the mind , it is the one who can watch the mind if you find peace in the perpetual and eternal moment .... and it does not exist in time , thought exists in time .... your consciousness experiences reality ... if the mind and its excessive momentum of thought is not loud enough to make you lose your connection .... to what ? to the internal truth know to all but forgotten by the mental noise of hundreds and thousands of evolution of our toxic mind .

the first question i will ask is this ...... if god is the alfa and the omega ..... he is everything within and without ...... how can you or anyone possibly fathom the depth of what you are trying to reduce to a 3 letter word .

in my opinion that is the first issue with the concept of god , it is limited by nature ..... why don't we try to explain what love is in 3 words lets see how descriptive we can get ....... you cannot use a word and describe that which is does not occupy neither time nor space


i have heard the same concept called energy , universal energy , Being , the unmanifested .... whatever name you assign to it simply not only will it not properly describe it , it will open the door for arguing ...because how do you look at an event with infinite depth and think you have a clue on how to describe it without it coming into conflict with the other 7 billion people that think they have god on lock down as well ......

good and evil are human concepts ....these terms do not exist beyond our minds .... you will not find an evil animal nor a good one ..... things are as they are , our judgment of an event or situations is what assigns a value of good or evil ...and those concepts are open to interpretation depending on which side of the fence you are standing on .....

if you want to know that which we should not try to describe , it will not be found through concepts and science .... it cannot be rationalized nor quantified .... for one simple reason. The mind is limited by time and space ...it cannot grasp beyond those boundaries ...... but .... we can feel and that is the only access you have at experiencing "god" and when you do , it will require no answers because you won't have any questions .


these answers are in every single person on earth ..... once you strip your self and your experiences , you accept life as is and forgive every moment ... you will enter a new state ...whether you want to call it a shift in consciousness , finding god or whatever term suits you best does not matter .... there is no difference between god and you ... it is one and the same .... the mind is the one that needs to go back to the toolbox where it belongs.

the truth is one ..... how people try to describe it , that is the issue . :)

let me ask you something ..... why do you believe we were "given" something ..... the duality you refer to in human beings is the struggle between YOUR nature as a perfect being/soul and your human nature that predominantly derives from generations of mind activity and societal rituals which goes against nature .

we were not given this .... we developed mental intelligence , and eventually this mental intelligence started to develop its own identity and eventually assumed control of the "bus" if you will , to the point where society by the almost absolute majority exists by mans law ... the law the ego ... the law of taking first always .... the law of separation and categorization .....

how should man behave ? ..... his ego , his false sense of self must die ..... and only then will you realize that it isn't obedience that god is looking for , the church wants obedience ...... god is simply to be found internally so you cease to operate from mental intelligence , but a much larger one that comes from a place which we cannot describe in any more competent manner than using the very finite and limited concept of ....god ..... the first step in understanding god is that you cannot understand something that does not exist in time or space ..... when you find that within ... you won't ask

"If you go back to Genesis, Adam and Eve eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. The tree of knowledge of good and evil is symbolic of law. "







have you ever considered that the tree of knowledge is a lot more symbolic than you may think , and it is possibly pointing to the human mind and the beginning of language and for all practical purposes deceit . It is very hard to lie if you communicate through actions and there is no language ..... the snake spoke ..... the snake ?? only one creature has the ability to speak , and that language does not come from the soul ...that is entirely a human construct

sinner when translated to its earliest roots simply means to miss the mark ..... to live outside of natural state ..... and when religion wants control they begin to use the word LAW ... which invokes fear if broken ........ but god is not fear ...it is love , so the interpretations by the bible in my opinion are corrupted and while they carry some truths ... they have been manipulated to serve man .... not god

you may have to be open to the possibility that what crhistians say may not be ..or may not be exactly as they describe it ..... you have to start with the admission that for humans to pretend to capture the depth of god into a book or set of rules and procedures is a bit telling that this may be more about ego than god ........

anytime you speak of god you are already limiting it into a finite concept ...the word god is already polluted because the majority of people upon hearing this word imagine a bearded paternal entity in the heavens ready to judge and then forgive ....... does that sound like god created man in his image ???? ........ or can you consider that it was man that created god in his .... the fact that god is male should already point out the obvious ....

as far as mercy vs forgiveness ..... perhaps I am not educated enough to distinguish the real difference .... but here is my opinion ....


mercy sounds like you are forgiving someone you should punish harshly ........

forgiveness is simply the act of not holding resentment towards "something or someone"


here is the part that most miss ...... forgiveness has nothing to do with the other person or situation , ...but instead it has everything to do with YOU and your ability or inability to let the memory go ......


here is the simplest example of forgiveness , .... I am am walking in a hospital hallway , and a child pushing her IV stand walks towards me and inadvertently bumps into me ... and hits my foot with the wheel ..... the child says " oh I am sorry " .... and my reply " it's ok " ..... if I truly forgive this moment I will simply not give it one thought ... it was a leaf blowing in the wind .... the moment is forgiven instantaneously and no resentment is built up .

it isn't an entity above you that does the forgiving .... it is you (not your name ) ..but the you that is the consciousness behind the mind , the one who can experience reality outside of time (time as referred to memories or projections) ..the one who is present ... that is what emerges when the layers of personality and egos are peeled and then forgiveness occurs and you "find god " if you want to use a common term for the event.

i believe to achieve peace of mind we first must look at the entirety of ourselves not just our brain

i dont think anyone here can argue that the healthiest things a human body may consume is unmolested natural food from the earth .... have you ever noticed that if you eat pizza you can easily overeat it well beyond the point you are hungry ? .... has that ever happened with a carrot ? or perhaps a melon ? .... something intelligent happens internally when we put the correct energy source into our digestive system ..... when you eat natural foods , you naturally cease eating when your stomach is no longer requiring food .... you do not rely on the brain for that decision .... what does this have to do with anything ? .....

if you complain about your engine , and you give it kerosene instead of racing fuel ... you wont get the most you can ...and it may not be enough .... so my first advice is start by eating healthy ...so you can have mental clarity , which is very difficult to do when a body is full of chemicals

as far as how to achieve peace ..... that is everyone's journey .... you do not have to add anything to who you are to find peace .... on the contrary , you have to strip of your identity that has cast a fog over your memory of who you are in essence .... the truth is already in you , you have to begin by question who you are ...... are you the collection of memories from your mind ? ... so if in 2012 your year would have been different than it actually was does that mean you would not be you ?? ..... of course not right ???


so then why do you believe the memories you do have is who you are , .... it is simply what you have experienced ...nothing else ...... when you let go , the answers will already be there and it will seem almost funny that you already knew they were there .


don't run from adversity .... it is then we are most likely to wake up from the illusion of self :)

i think there are two types of trauma .... the physical one , where you hit your head on something and now you have a physical injury that may affect motor skill functions, cognitive functions ... no clue , I am not a doctor . then there is the trauma that is the struggle of humans ... the trauma of what some may call "bad" experiences from the past .

an event that took place in the past which involved some type of violence or situation that created a great deal of fear in the individual will be the trauma i will attempt to give an opinion about . Where is that trauma located ?? it is in your mind , in the tool controlled by your brain .... that trauma is the inability to let go of something that no longer is ..... that is not to say that it was not real , it happened ....but it created something else , beyond fear ... it created an identity around the circumstance , and the individual incorporates that new identity into who they are .... that pain is carried daily , and that is trauma .

its real , it hurts , it pushes you to self destruct and sabotage your actions , it isolates you from the world ...... but it is also a phantom .... it isn't you , it is a memory and that memory belongs to the mind .... or better said , the ego .... it needs trauma and it uses it to further separate and isolate and some of us ... including myself have used that trauma to be the crutch that will never let us walk with our heads straight

we have all experienced trauma , in one form or another ... everyone has , this world is full of egos that wan to survive and need to attack to do so ..... but there is a way to deal with trauma .....

acceptance of this pain , don't run from it nor fight it ... it is real , and you must embrace it because it is real .... and if you embrace it with an open heart acceptance will occur .... and from then eventually forgiveness which is the ultimate release of a negative entity that resides within

I never fully realized what forgiveness was until I actually read the explanation of the word ...... to simply hold no resentment towards whatever it is that you resented .

Trauma is very real , and longer lasting than bruises ..... it is in the mind , and that is one of the many ways the mind is toxic , because it does not care if the news is good or bad to create an identity to strengthen the ego ...it simply uses what is available to say ... I am unique and no one can destroy me ..... who is me ?? ..... that is the question you one day should ask yourself , and perhaps you may remember that you ...isn't defined by your experiences ... not the real you anyways . :)