However, says Hotschild, what this doesn't see is that there is not a 1:1 relationship between 'forms' and their manifestations:

"among all the kinds of forms which can be signified by terms, according to Aquinas, there is no one uniform way in which they exist. The existence of the form “sight,” by which the eye sees, may be some positive presence in the nature of things..." — Wayfarer

Philosophy since Galileo has tended to through Aristotle out with the bathwater of geocentrism. I think the reason Aristotle is making a comeback, is because the notion of formal and final cause is indispensable to any mature philosophy. — Wayfarer

for Aristotle, the wheel is circular independent of human thought or language.
— Andrew M

key point. It is real independently of any particular mind, but can only be grasped by a rational intellect. See Augustine on Intelligible Objects (foot of page). — Wayfarer

This essay contains a deep analysis of Ockham's criticism of scholastic realism and its momentous consequences for Western thought. — Wayfarer

As I understand it, the essence or universal of circularity is in the circular object, because for Aristotle, concrete objects demonstrate mathematical properties (weight, volume, extension, etc.) The essence of circularity is not floating around in a Platonic heaven somewhere. — DS1517

I think it is correct to say that Aristotle believed we could understand mathematics in a more abstract sense, as mathematics and logic are derived from being and particular objects. He also mentions in the Posterior Analytics that the mind is so constituted that we can apprehend and understand these more abstract principles. The above quote from Aristotle's Metaphysics seems to indicate that he didn't think mathematics exists in the same way other things exist (which I think is intuitively correct). However, does that make Aristotle a conceptualist or nominalist? (I know conceptualism and nominalism are later philosophical phenomena. However, I had a professor tell me that Aristotle laid the intellectual foundation for nominalism and I'm trying to figure out for myself if that is really true.) — DS1517

What if you shrunk people down to the size of an electron and used them in the famous "double slit experiment"? Would you get the same results? What would the experiences of the people be? — RogueAI

Another thought ... Perhaps a Platonic objection but I was wondering what you thought. From an Aristotelian perspective, if I could destroy all the circular objects in the world, would I have successfully destroyed the essence of circularity? What might an Aristotelian response be? (I've read Aristotle but I can't remember if he addresses this question.) — DS1517

I think that is correct. Aristotle believed that mathematical properties are immanent within concrete objects. I'm wondering how he would account for the laws of logic and the principles of mathematics that make geometry and math possible in the first place? I'm guessing they are just abstractions of concrete objects or fundamental principles of being? — DS1517

Could you guys share your philosophy of math with me? — frank

Our developed human intellectual abilities add two things to those simple perceptions. The first is visualisation, which allows us to understand necessary relations between mathematical facts. Try this easy mental exercise: imagine six crosses arranged in two rows of three crosses each, one row directly above the other. I can equally imagine the same six crosses as three columns of two each. Therefore 2 × 3 = 3 × 2. I not only notice that 2 × 3 is in fact equal to 3 × 2, I understand why 2 × 3 must equal 3 × 2. — The mathematical world - James Franklin

Norway regrets lock down. — Chester

I've read some of Aristotle but I'm no expert. I am wondering what an Aristotelian response might be to abstract objects such as the principles and axioms of mathematics? Are those pure abstractions to an Aristotelian? — DS1517

The best way to conduct an investigation in every case is to take that which does not exist in separation and consider it separately; which is just what the arithmetician or the geometrician does. — Aristot. Met. 13.1078a

Wow! So an idea can interfere with visualization? Change your ideas and new doors open for visualization? — frank

The 3,4,5 probably came from a technique for building structures that have 90 degree angles. — frank

"
                        /|
Alice's elapsed time = / | Bob's elapsed time?
  1 year              /  |   √(1^2 - 0.6^2) =
                     /   |   0.8 years (9.6 months)
                    ------
             Bob's travel distance =
               0.6 light years (in Alice's reference frame)
"

But which came first: the idea or the visualization? — frank

That this subject [imaginary numbers] has hitherto been surrounded by mysterious obscurity, is to be attributed largely to an ill adapted notation. If, for example, +1, -1, and the square root of -1 had been called direct, inverse and lateral units, instead of positive, negative and imaginary (or even impossible), such an obscurity would have been out of the question. — Carl Friedrich Gauss

The test method is close to fool proof. Nevertheless about 1 to 8% false positives occur with these type of tests due to laboratory conditions. Human error unfortunately. Depends a lot on which country it even which testing facility you're talking about. — Benkei

I don't believe that's the case. — Benkei

A real question. There's been much talk about false negatives in covid testing, saying it's up to 30%. I've read false positives are very rare.

How do you know you have a false negative or false positive? If symptomatology is the gold standard, why have testing? — Hanover

Ebola wasn't eradicated though, it is endemic and is certain to reemerge from time to time (in fact there were confirmed cases in April). — SophistiCat

It took three months, till mid December, for the same approach to be transferred to Sierra Leone, and the same thing happened — the number of cases declined rapidly. By March 2015, these interventions brought the number of active Ebola cases to zero in Liberia [20]. A few small outbreaks occurred later but they were stopped quickly. In the spring, the WHO stated in its reports that ‘community engagement’ was key to stopping the disease [21], and included the importance of community actions as a theme in their lessons learned [22,23]. — Yaneer Bar-Yam, How community response stopped Ebola, New England Complex Systems Institute (July 11, 2016).

The main problem in the idea that a certain country or area can "eradicate" the virus simply isn't reasonable NOW as the global pandemic is still going strong. Some countries, as you know, are unable to make a genuine effort on the federal level and opt to leave the states to invent their own policies. EU has been totally unable to coordinate anything as member states have chosen their own path to fight the virus. This is the biggest obstacle to the idea that just one country/area can with itself eradicate the virus and then live normally after. — ssu

Yet I have to say that it is good marketing and a policy that can instill trust in the public that the officials are really prioritizing fighting the pandemic. Just like a leader of country at war will rally the people assuring victory for them and a defeat to the enemy. It wouldn't sound good to the people and the soldiers fighting to say: "Well, will continue to fight this war because we are confident we bleed them far more than we ourselves suffer losses and hence we'll get a better deal during the peace talks." The quite Clausewitzian approach doesn't sound so good and doesn't motivate anyone. — ssu

I'd be grateful for any links. — Isaac

Especially Ebola is totally different: it is so deadly that it basically kills itself. With this virus it's quite the opposite with many people carrying and spreading the virus without any symptoms. — ssu

While early on there was a strong resistance to quarantines, by the following summer with the Ebola epidemic still a problem in Guinea, news reports were talking about how communities welcomed quarantine to finally get rid of the disease [25]. — Yaneer Bar-Yam, How community response stopped Ebola, New England Complex Systems Institute (July 11, 2016)

The thing with eradication is problematic: what if the disease becomes like influenza, a disease the is now called "the common flu"? Will you have a quarantine procedures for rest of our lives? Will Iceland and New Zealand basically abolish tourism? I don't think so. — ssu

36,000+ NEEDLESS DEATHS. — 180 Proof

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/05/12/coronavirus-epidemiologist-were-just-second-inning-qa-opinion/3114615001/ — 180 Proof

The results were dramatic. The epidemic that was exponentially growing, fell exponentially [17] (see Fig. 5). To the confusion of some international observers, the expected number of sick people weren’t showing up at the special Ebola care facilities constructed in Liberia. Even two months later, reports in the news were saying that they didn’t know where bodies were, that they must be being hidden [18,19].

...

The same principles of community-based intervention can be applied to a wide variety of potential diseases. Understanding the lessons of Ebola’s containment will allow for these policies to be implemented more effectively in the future, reducing the death toll of future epidemics and limiting the possibility of a larger pandemics. — Yaneer Bar-Yam, How community response stopped Ebola, New England Complex Systems Institute (July 11, 2016)

↪Hanover Pantless people properly place protection on their publicly presented penises. I live in Lutheran Lockdown Land so there are no pantless persons, alas. — Bitter Crank

How much does an effective mask cost? Forty dollars? Sorry, we're not all rich. — neonspectraltoast

There is no such scientific consensus. The evidence is mixed, but the consensus, if anything, is that masks are somewhat effective, some more than others. Don't fall victim to all-or-nothing thinking: even a 20% reduction of the probability of transmission is better than nothing. — SophistiCat

I just think the unintended consequences could be far greater with the lockdown approach, for instance they are predicting an extra 1.5 million TB deaths due to lockdown (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/coronavirus-lockdown-could-lead-nearly-15-million-extra-tb-deaths/), and famines of “ biblical proportions. — NOS4A2

Not a good reference actually.

First of all, it's far too early to say that. This hasn't ended yet...at all. — ssu

Secondly, when you really look at those countries it seems that what is only thing that has been looked at is the graph without any reference to the actual number. Is it REALLY so that Singapore has done worse than Iran and should take example from the Islamic Republic??? I don't think so, with 3/million deaths compared to 77/million, the obvious Trumpesque response of the mullahs plus totally unreliable stats I wouldn't say that Singapore has done it bad and Iran has made better response. What that site (perhaps unintentionally) paints as the picture is that the pandemic has been beaten. Several of those "covid-19 beating" countries are scaling back their quarantine measures, so that will have implications. — ssu

Anyway, what is totally lacking is a genuine strategy, a long term plan and a road map how to tackle the pandemic when vaccines are way in the distant future. And that is truly a political decision which simply cannot be just be given to medical officials and epidemiologists to decide as it has quite a lot of moving parts than washing hands and social distancing. This is the problem that all countries are now facing, but unfortunately with the US, this planning is now totally absent with Trump.

There simply is no coherent strategy now, just states doing their own thing. — ssu

Guess what? It worked. Just like we kept telling you it would. Early lockdown = less time needed on lockdown = less deaths + less economic disruption + shitloads more options to keep things as they are. Everybody wins. — Baden

So what's the deal with Sweden? By all accounts, the shit should've hit the fan by now, but that doesn't seem to be happening. In terms of overall infection and death rate, they are doing worse than some (their immediate neighbors), much better than others (Italy, Spain, France, NY), and about as well as Ireland, which has been praised for its active measures to suppress the epidemic, while Sweden has done almost nothing. Its elderly have been hit hard, but that is also happening elsewhere. On the other hand its health system hasn't been overwhelmed. — SophistiCat

Whether they get to zero or not, what Australia and New Zealand have already accomplished is a remarkable cause for hope. Scott Morrison of Australia, a conservative Christian, and Jacinda Ardern, New Zealand’s darling of the left, are both succeeding with throwback democracy — in which partisanship recedes, experts lead, and quiet coordination matters more than firing up the base. — NYT - Vanquish the Virus? Australia and New Zealand Aim to Show the Way

Ms. Ardern and Mr. Morrison have already discussed reopening travel between the two countries, and some scientists wonder if eliminating the virus with good management might rebuild some faith not just in democracy, but also in the value of expertise.

“It does feel like we’re pulling together and pulling in the same direction at the moment,” said Dr. Mackay, the immunologist at the University of Queensland. “I hope we can maintain that.”

“Maybe we’ll see the return of science,” Dr. Mackay added. “I doubt it, but who knows.”

In otherwords, this expert does not support your position but has made an ambiguous easily misunderstood statement about a lack of knowledge. — boethius

My understanding of the social distancing concept is that it is to level out the curve of infections so as to be sure there is adequate healthcare (especially with regard to there being sufficient ventilators) to treat the curable. — Hanover

Social distancing obviously will slow the spread of the disease, but I really don't think we can expect it to reduce the overall occurrence given sufficient time unless you're committed to removing the most vulnerable from the population long enough to find a vaccine (a year?). — Hanover

It's official, the state is deceiving the public to fuel the hysteria. It's a definite conspiracy...now is the time to begin panicking. — Merkwurdichliebe

Nowhere else in the US is like that, thus we're all locked down way too early for a storm that probably won't get here for another couple of weeks. But how could we have known? — frank

States with relatively few confirmed cases, unlike hot spots including New York, Louisiana and Michigan, still have an opportunity to avert widespread transmission, Centers for Disease Control Director Robert Redfield said in an interview. — U.S. States Prepare Test-and-Trace Programs to Reopen Their Economies

Lack of evidence is evidence of lack? — frank

All you needed to do was point out the LA Times' lack of justification, but you didn't do that. Instead, you made an unsubstantiated claim when you said, "It hasn't". — frank

Wuhan develops new cluster of cases.[LA Times] — frank

Of course it’s true that not going outside will reduce the “paths of transmission”. I would argue that you’re not so much reducing a path of transmission as you are storing it for later, but the point is taken.

I’ve been following the case of Sweden intently due to its different approach. The chief epidemiologist, Anders Wallensten said people will eventually ignore stay-at-home orders if they are too stringent, so it's better to adopt measures that can be sustained over a long period of time. Another epidemiologist who earlier criticized the UK’s lockdown approach, Anders Tegnell, said that they are only pushing the problem ahead of them, merely kicking the can down the road so to speak. He also said that mass unemployment and a ruined economy brings with it its own public health problems.

Do you disagree with them? — NOS4A2