Will keep that in mind as I read, thanks!

I guess people here dislike Spinoza :D

I didnt expect the majority of people here who are interested in philosophy to support UBI.

Chapter one - not sure if he is agnostic or atheist he seems to bash religion. Might just be like Luther, very critical of it. The preface was deeply interesting how he said we turn to superstition when we are afraid. Damn.

There really isnt a depth when you deny something. I say "There is no God" the same way I would say "There is no milk". Are you religious?

Yes, the so called "obnoxious atheists"

I have nothing against religion and religious people (both of my best friends are deeply religious and they know I am an atheist) I think persecuting religion is beyond stupid and calling religious people stupid is 2x beyond stupid too.

That said, religion was born in our cave years to explain natural phenomenons (storms, winds, etc) and since we were pretty ignorant in our caves, we decided it was the Gods.

Fast forward, the Renaissance when advanced science was born and the Enlightenment era - but the story of God persisted.

People will believe what they want to believe. But as an atheist I think you have to show me proof God exists - until then :-)

However, science is NOT the answer to everything. I like this video which illustrates how ignorant scientists and atheists can be too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJDgVlv55Uw

I think that's still true today for totalitarian regimes, you control the masses, like you said, by forcing ignorance on them. And when people want to be willfully ignorant like it is the case for a lot of them, it makes it so much easier for the oppressors.

One of the ancient philosophers I really dislikes is Aristotle - he held back science for nearly 2000 years because he made up a bunch of nonsense and every scientist was afraid of discrediting him due to the danger as being viewed as "having no respect for the great men" and being shunned.

That's ludicrous, haha!

I really wouldn't want to live in Plato's/Socrates' republic!

^^ Thank you Ron, I started reading it and it is very good! I made a thread for it!

Thank you Ron, I read the intro and it seems interesting, will read it !

relates to modern day political theory, especially republican thought. — ron

Could you elaborate on that one?

I always thought it was a proverb that speaks against conformity - it is one of the biggest battles we must fight in order to be successful.

IIRC = If I remember correctly.

IIRC, it's a scandinavian proverb. So the celebrity stole it.

Off topic, you guys seem really smart and philosophy pros, if that's a word. I have got a lot of study, heh.

When these arguments first appeared, it was life and death. — Valentinus

Could you elaborate? Do you mean that when they first argued about justice they seemed like they were getting mad at each other (at least to me) but then cooled down?

A man, perfect or otherwise, happens with other people. — Valentinus

Could you elaborate?

How is the metaphor convoluted? — Valentinus

Because in the begininng Socrates and his interlocutors speak about justice and whether it is better and more profitable to be just or unjust and then Socrates jumps into creating this "State" which with little mention to justice which I believe leaves the reader confused.

Although I am not finished with the book yet.

Gotcha, so that's the reason he used the state metaphor? To make it easier for the reader to comprehend and easier for him to explain?

I am kinda confused and amused by this passage:

Socrates was telling the story of this Greek character in Homer's book who apparently was sick his whole life and didn't do any work.
He then gives this example:

I mean this: When a carpenter is ill he asks the physician for a rough
and ready cure; an emetic or a purge or a cautery or the knife,--these
are his remedies. And if some one prescribes for him a course of
dietetics, and tells him that he must swathe and swaddle his head, and
all that sort of thing, he replies at once that he has no time to be
ill, and that he sees no good in a life which is spent in nursing his
disease to the neglect of his customary employment; and therefore
bidding good-bye to this sort of physician, he resumes his ordinary
habits, and either gets well and lives and does his business, or, if
his constitution falls, he dies and has no more trouble. — Socrates

He then continues:

Has he not, I said, an occupation; and what profit would there be in
his life if he were deprived of his occupation? — Socrates

Was Socrates meaning to say that you must either work or die, and if you don't work and aren't a sufficiently contributing member of society, then you are as good as dead?

If he is trying to describe the perfect man, why is he using this really convoluted state metaphor?

That makes more sense, thanks!

Thanks Wallows, will do!

I like that. If you get a gift, you decide what to do with it.

Is this a thread for reading one book, or a thread about what we are current reading? I am reading The Republic by Plato.