• On Antinatalism
    Having children risks harming someone. So it has a negative value.

    So obviously don’t have children. Simple. You are being willfully blind to the fact that the argument makes logical sense.
    khaled
    The argument is you equating risk with loss, while being blind to anything and everything potentially good.

    You sound just like I did five years ago - completely sunk with insecurity.
    You're quivering from potential harm while resting on the crutch of security, patting yourself on the back thinking that your not having children has indubitably spared the world or your children.

    I've stated quite clearly that having a child is a risk you're not obliged to, but that it is the only rewarding choice.
    Your idea that not having children is in any way beneficial is a fraudulent justification of your irresponsibility and sloth.

    Considering your current state of mind, perhaps as a natural irony, it would be best that you didn't have children as you'd be an inept parent, more harmful than beneficial.
    In this, ironically, you're justified.
  • On Antinatalism
    I would know. My brother has a mutation and can’t do much at 12 except walk and eat. Your arguments seem to be getting more and more personal only to fall even harder on their face.khaled
    No, you wouldn't - because these kids can't do either.

    You're like a horse with blinders, completely oblivious to everything but your front.

    You say you can't harm nonexistent children? Very well.
    But if you accept that, follow through and realise you can't spare them harm.

    Your idea is void by your own rebuttal.
    You're just afraid and if you'd commit to that
    Maybe my child would have turned out to be another hitler despite my best efforts.khaled
    instead of putting up this idiotic front, this conversation wouldn't be so needlessly dragged out.
  • Adam Eve and the unjust punishment
    Read the story again in the original Hebrew and then the Ugaritic texts.

    A whole tribunal elects to forge man, yet only one holds the secret 'breath of life'.
    This creation method is what separates man from a mere puppet; hence the free will and divine symbiosis, as they are replicas.

    The fruit then was a Trojan Horse to sever this link, illustrated through the escort out of the garden. Ultimately the new malformed man endangers the earth and so a flood is cast.
  • Get Creative!
    It's the Japanese Kanji for Shin.

    Which depending on the context can be used as either Mind or Truth.
  • On Antinatalism
    You actually truly believe that? So again I ask

    You have 3 starving people and 2 solutions
    A: feed them
    B: materialize 100 satiated people such that you create more pleasure than in A

    Would you seriously pick B?
    khaled
    Please do not lure me like this, as the two questions are incomparable.

    The theft of happiness that we're discussing is comparable to: Would you feed them if there was a chance for them to be allergic, even if the chance was 99%?

    And I would take the 1% as the opposite choice is certain doom; I wouldn't be sparing them anything, like you think, if I took pity from the fear of an allergic reaction. That pity is outright thievery.

    But to answer your query:
    Intuitively answering A ought be the proper choice as it fixes the posited problem, whereas choosing B most likely wouldn't fix it, at least not directly, right?

    But if I were to offer the three starving these two choices and they all chose B, would it be moral to choose A anyway? No, I do not think it would.

    So I would offer the three the aforementioned choices, and grant each their wish or grant the one unanimously chosen if the former is not allowed.

    Also let me ask you another question: do you think someone is ever morally obliged to have children?khaled
    No, man is not morally obliged to have children.
    But man ought to be morally obliged not to deny children.
    That is wise when dealing with other people you don’t know. The default is to do the action that doesn’t risk harm. Would you appreciate it if someone destroyed your house in an attempt to add a room to it when you didn’t ask him to do so.khaled
    It is slavery to fear.
    I told you once - do not warm the pan, prior to catching the fish.
    You're making decisions for the child you're not even willing to give a chance.
    You're not sparing it harm, you're sparing yourself the responsibility if it comes to harm and unwilling to risk that it might enjoy its life with gratitude to spare.
    Something I've seen from my many interactions with disabled children; they don't want your pity, they want to live.

    Who is harmed by me not having children? Where is this failure?khaled
    The world as a whole.
    But mostly the children.
    Your failure is the failure to see past the corrupt idea that kids don't desire to live.
    In short, s failure of transmission from the child to you.
  • Adam Eve and the unjust punishment
    The way I parse that is God wants us to be innocent more than he wants us to understand Him.TheMadFool
    You'd be wrong.
    The ingestion of the fruit is the severing of the divine symbiosis.
  • On Antinatalism
    if I could show your next 10 children would be as you described there would you have a moral obligation to have them?khaled
    If I were to have 100 children each deformed worse and worse, yet each would live a happy life...
    It would be immoral of me to deny one of them their happiness; in the same way a thief denies.

    I'll cut it short: If you deny the child, you deny any potential good from and to.
    You will stagnate in fear of potential damage.
    To be moral and free here, would entail to risk.
    Certain failure versus potential failure.
  • On Antinatalism
    You haven't caught the fish, yet you're already warming the pan

    Do you think the conflation posited justifies denying a happy person? Perhaps the parents' contribution is negligible, but it's the only way they can make it happy - even if it is letting it be innately happy.

    Succumbing to the fear of a threat, you would, if you haven't, doom yourself to failure. Simply, it's no good.
  • On Antinatalism
    And if that child grows up to not only enjoy its life but do the world a metamorphosmic good?
  • On Antinatalism
    Excuses, excuses~
  • On Antinatalism
    A potential human is never a human and never will be.NOS4A2
    Then why are you saying potential human?
    Say potential being.

    But then...
    You are not talking about beings at all.NOS4A2
    You'd have to change it to a potential something.

    Until you loop around~
  • Why are there so many balances in Nature?
    Overdosing is the end of productive imbalance: death puts a stop to the controlled disequilibrium that is a living body, and puts an end to the asymmetric distinction of life from the inanimate that surrounds it.StreetlightX
    So one imbalance ends another imbalance, and consequently produces yet another imbalance?
    What would you call this clockwork imbalancing?
  • Why are there so many balances in Nature?
    Balance is the harbinger of death, and it's only in breaking balance, throwing it out of whack, that anything at all exists.StreetlightX
    So overdosing is actually a good thing, is it?
  • Metaphysics - what is it?
    Actually, telescopes came after it was theorized that the earth revolved around the sun, and not vise versa, so understanding the heliocentric nature of the solar system was not the result of telescopes. The idea was floated around 2500 years ago, but the planets were given perfect circular orbits according to the principles of Aristotelian metaphysics. The assumption of perfect circles resulted in inconsistencies which could not be reconciled until Copernicus. The point though, is that metaphysical theory preceded the fine tuning observations which were required to adjust the theory.Metaphysician Undercover
    What about, say, ten thousand years ago?
  • Why are there so many balances in Nature?
    Walking gives more energy than it takes;
    It’s as easy as falling forward makes.
    Thoughts ‘come clear, cares fade, alertness tingles;
    Life’s spirit whispers one along, wide awake.
    PoeticUniverse
    To go is neither here nor there,
    The goal is for the hare who dares.
    Though perhaps tortoise or a shark
    Doses at the end, though stark.
  • Wiser Words Have Never Been Spoken
    how do I delete comments?rlclauer
    As per the title.
  • Should hate speech be allowed ?
    @Wittgenstein Did ten pages worth of spite answer your query, or do you require more?
  • A world based on total empathy
    The problem with empathy is that it does not multiply. Our sense of empathy can deal with maybe a handful of individuals at once. More than that just get thrown out. Worse, really big catastrophes are so unimaginable in the amount of suffering they produce that empathy simply shuts down.

    So empathy is ultimately not a good solution for making the world a better place.
    Echarmion
    What a fraudulent world that must be, where no sun shines and no ants tread~
  • How Do You Do Science Without Free Will?
    Freedom lies in awareness, and has nothing to do with choice.unenlightened
    How more free must you be, Pinocchio, to yearn for more than the innocuous?
    Good night, sweet prince, may your rights rest with the other real boys~
  • Is Jesus a human being or is a human being a Jesus?
    You disregard your own principle of motion. Keep rotating.
  • A simple english question
    Wife of 64 years - wife for 64 years.
  • Why are there so many balances in Nature?
    One foot in front of the other, so the world goes round and round.
  • Is Jesus a human being or is a human being a Jesus?

    A human has imbibed Jesus.
    Like a glass imbibes water.
  • Perception Of thoughts
    Who is accessing this mental content and from where?Andrew4Handel
    You are - from here.

    Who are you and where is here? A gamble.
  • Should hate speech be allowed ?
    The Baden needed, but not the Gooden deserved. :pray:
  • Should hate speech be allowed ?
    @Baden Feeling bored, Baden?
  • Alternatives to 'new atheism'
    Who? Where? You talking to someone else?Artemis
    Maybe.

    Well, have fun with that. Your personal guessing and musing about the metaphysics of the universe are only interesting insofar as they contain something more than your imagination.Artemis
    Thank you, I will have fun with that.
  • Should hate speech be allowed ?
    Let it go, let it go-o~
  • Alternatives to 'new atheism'
    It's quite simple, darling.
    I'm guessing.
  • Alternatives to 'new atheism'
    Don't they? Won't they? Can't they? Shouldn't they? Wouldn't they? Couldn't they?

    Proportionally you're too big to fit in to that tiny mind, much as God is too big to fit in to yours. I guess?
  • Alternatives to 'new atheism'
    Of course, once you believe in an impossible and irrational idea like God, then you pave the way for all manner of silly and contradictory things and ideas.Artemis
    I wonder if the denizens of the ocean's bottom think likewise of humans?
  • Objective Morality vs Subjective Morality
    Your awareness of an idea is as irrelevant to its life, as it is to my own.
    Probably.
  • Wiser Words Have Never Been Spoken
    Brian states have electrochemical properties.Terrapin Station
    @BrianW Can you confirm~?
  • Objective Morality vs Subjective Morality
    What about ideas that do not possess electrochemical properties?
    What about ideas: not felt, not imagined, not pondered, not spoken, not heard; lone, floating somewhere, somehow?
  • Objective Morality vs Subjective Morality
    I did not ask what ideas are, but what their physical attributes are.
    Pay attention, please.
  • Of stillness and death, Of motion and life
    Death. HmmmmmmTheMadFool
    The mind must be activeTheMadFool
    Must it? Is it incapable of rest, stasis and even death?