Attributions toward artificial agents in a modified Moral Turing Test
^{— Eyal Aharoni, Sharlene Fernandes, Daniel J Brady, Caelan Alexander, Michael Criner, Kara Queen, Javier Rando, Eddy Nahmias, Victor Crespo · Scientific Reports · Apr 30, 2024}

The study employed a variation of the Turing test where participants were unaware of the AI’s involvement, focusing instead on the quality of the responses.

Remarkably, they rated the AI’s moral reasoning as superior in quality to humans’ along almost all dimensions, including virtuousness, intelligence, and trustworthiness, consistent with passing what Allen and colleagues call the comparative MTT. — Amanda Head · Neuroscience News · May 6, 2024

Anyway, when are they going to task AI with developing AI? :)

Zooming in to individual persons, can homicide be justified? Self-defense is typically said to justify killing in some or many cases, where are the boundaries, though? (In general, there are all kinds of odd cases to consider.)

Can such, or similar, justification be applied when zooming out to societies? Societies also encompass individuals. Boundaries...? Initiators carry significant responsibility, they're just not always easy to identify, which can be (is) abused. The attackers↔defenders relationship is asymmetrical, attackers choose for both, defenders can't choose otherwise.

Warring has already parted ways with (self)constraint in marked ways, that notions of war crimes then have to contend with. Giving up on the ethics doesn't help though. War crimes are unjustified (at least illegal) as per definition, yes?

Foreign interference in Ukraine’s election
^{— Jakub Kalenský, Laura Galante, Maksym Eristavi, John E Herbst, Geysha González · The Ukraine Election Task Force · May 15, 2019}
Elmar Brok made some statements in 2016, that remain pertinent.

Regarding straightforward threats to Russia (topics emphasized):

▸ As far as I can tell, democratization (transparency, freedom, human rights, independent election monitors, bona fide indicators, the usual) would not pose a threat to the common Russian, though it could pose a threat to certain others (not many) in Russian society. Overall, I'm guessing this would bring prosperity (and safety/security) to more Russians over time and would go some way to increase trust.

▸ Also as far as I can tell, in general, there's no particular threat to the common Russian, except perhaps from the Kremlin, which is internal to Russia. There's a chance that some Russians abroad have faced discrimination/threats, which is unreasonable for merely being Russian.

▸ Sanctions/embargoes pose a threat. Surely the likes of free (but legal) trade would be quite beneficial to Russian society, whereas more isolation (or imposed economic starvation) is more deleterious. Presumably then, not doing what caused the sanctions, is perceived as bad/worse (or threats in plural) by the sanctioned. So, we have to ask what caused the sanctions, and what consequences there might be of not doing what caused them, which involves sifting through whatever material.
• International sanctions during the Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-
• International sanctions during the Russian invasion of Ukraine 2022-
• Sanctions against Russia

▸ If Russia were to accrue significant debt, then that could be a threat of sorts. Maybe not a high threat as such, might depend on creditors.

▸ An invasion of Russia pose a straightforward, head-on threat. We then have to ask if anyone is lined up to invade Russia, or has threatened credibly to invade. Say, is anyone in a position to grab Russian land, and interested in trying to do so? Somewhat similarly, anyone motivated and geared up to outright level Russia (not setting foot therein), without much danger to themselves, could pose a threat.

▸ Internal strife in Russia possibly pose a threat, depending. If the strifers wanted something similar to what the Ukrainians wanted/want (Euromaidan + Dignity), then it's possible that a threat would only be to some or few Russians (internally). External parties could have an interest in trying to sow division within Russia; surely Ukraine is motivated to try undermining the present Kremlin's power (as a countermeasure to the invasion).

▸ Imposed, concerted (effective, Russophobic) anti-Russification/other-fication efforts in Russia, would be a cultural/identity genocide, though the largest country in the world already has a few ethnocultural groups. So there's a threat. This is the type of threat the Kremlin has enacted on occupied Ukraine (and some other places). As of typing, there's no indication/evidence that Russia is struggling with such a threat. Homosexuality isn't that, despite the Kremlin's efforts and legislation.

I'm sure I've missed some. Please feel free to fill in the blanks. For a more complete round-up, factors or possible moves in the other direction, to benefit Russian society should be added/compared.

FYI, in terms of population numbers, here are some comparisons (increasing order):
Germany + Poland < Russia < Germany + France < Russia + Belarus < Germany + France + Finland < Germany + Poland + Ukraine

There are some vague similarities between Netanyahu and Putin, like their versions of lebensraum and destruction/killing to get it, Putin being heavier on the hitlerjugend style than Netanyahu, ... Either way, expect reactions from other societies.

I'm told that Numbers 24:9 (read as being about Israel), is a reason for some to pick who to vote for. An exercise in (superstitious) dogmatism.

Circumstantial evidence is evidence, as far as I'm concerned. It's not my fault you are unable to infer beyond the facts, and when you do, it's invariably in defence against anything that might dispute your narrative. — NOS4A2

Odd you should write that, because your inference beyond facts works to support your narrative. Anyway, no matter, carry on.

FYI, some events surrounding the 2014 election that Poroshenko won, plotted into a timeline of sorts (attached). The May 22-26 attacks were considered among the most comprehensive of its kind known at the time. Yarosh seems almost random; he's said to be an extremist. The Euromaidan + Dignity commotion was central, kind of reverberated onwards.

, , fyi, an old vote/thread taking it a step further:

Is communism realistic/feasible? (realistic/feasible ≠ possible)

Congress threatens ICC over Israeli arrest warrants — Tzeentch

disgraceful [...] lawless [...]
If unchallenged by the Biden administration, the ICC could create and assume unprecedented power to issue arrest warrants against American political leaders, American diplomats, and American military personnel.
[...] immediately and unequivocally demand that the ICC stand down [...] use every available tool to prevent such an abomination — Johnson

think of whether we stay a signatory [...]
We have to think about talking to some of the countries that have ratified [the treaty] as to whether they want to support the organization. [...]
I know Congress will ensure consequences for such an absurd decision. — Sherman

strong consequences from both Congress and the President — Torres

They don't know the charges (yet), so this ↑ is about that there may be upcoming charges, regardless of what they may be (and the justification thereof)?

concerns about the prosecution of the war [...] it's always a good idea to get the facts before making a judgment — Kildee

Why don't we see what happens, and then we can evaluate based on whatever comes out. — McGovern

Better.

The ICC is an independent body, and it needs to proceed with what they need to do. — Jayapal

it's not a matter for Congress to be telling them what to be doing — Pocan

Something for them to quarrel about.

Apropos:

The Simpsons in the 1950s
^{— demonflyingfox · Apr 28, 2024 · 1m:7s}

I wouldn't call it theft/plagiarism, more like a demonstration.

UK Foreign Secretary gets together with Ukrainian most wanted man in public, for support. Meanwhile, Starbucks was renamed Stars. :D (← vague reminder of that alternate world type stuff again) Chinese officials are afraid to be seen with wanted man.

After this Palestine thing dies off (like Ukraine did, that thread is very dead) — Lionino

Not quite ;)

Mercenaries ...

Cuban mercenaries fighting for Russia eliminate their commander: report
^{— TV Poland World · Apr 28, 2024}

Earlier ...

Putin signs decree to ease getting Russian citizenship for foreigners in armed forces
^{— TASS · Sep 30, 2022}
Cuba arrests 17 for trafficking men to fight for Russia in Ukraine
^{— Al Jazeera · Sep 8, 2023}
Special Report: How Cubans were recruited to fight for Russia
^{— Dave Sherwood, Alexandre Meneghini, Mario Fuentes, Carlos Carrillo, Matt Spetalnick, Tom Balmforth, Filipp Lebedev, Felix Light, Pravin Char · Reuters · Oct 3, 2023}
Putin speeds up a citizenship path for foreigners who enlist in the Russian military
^{— Dasha Litvinova · AP · Jan 4, 2024}
Don't come, it's a trap: Cuban mercenary fighting in the Russian army issues chilling warning to fellow countrymen
^{— Germania Rodriguez Poleo · Daily Mail Online · Apr 23, 2024}

I suppose they're convenient cannon fodder (when they don't kill their peer invaders).



GPS jamming traced to Russia after flights over Europe suspended
^{— Jeremy Hsu · New Scientist · May 1, 2024}
Statement by the North Atlantic Council on recent Russian hybrid activities
^{— NATO · May 2, 2024}

These incidents are part of an intensifying campaign of activities which Russia continues to carry out across the Euro-Atlantic area, including on Alliance territory and through proxies. This includes sabotage, acts of violence, cyber and electronic interference, disinformation campaigns, and other hybrid operations. NATO Allies express their deep concern over Russia's hybrid actions, which constitute a threat to Allied security.

GPS jamming is a ‘side effect’ of Russian military activity, Finnish transport agency says
^{— Tommaso Lecca · POLITICO · May 3, 2024}
German foreign minister says Russia will face consequences for monthslong cyber espionage
^{— Frank Bajak, Karel Janicek, Stephen Graham, Samuel Petrequin, Foster Klug · AP · May 3, 2024}
Fancy Bear
^{— Wikipedia}

I doubt the Kremlin cares much about condemnation of those cyber activities (for the time being anyway). When state-backed, they tend to just go on about their business.

moral cretins — 180 Proof

Always love to hear it from the explicitly irreligious. :heart: — BitconnectCarlos

Hmm? Maybe you have a topic for Ethics, ?

Folks, there's bad more or less across the board, or, let's say on "both sides" here.
Continuing to just point out the bad on "the other side" got repetitive some time ago.

I guess republicans are fascists. — Lionino

Not really, those are your words.
For one, some ≠ all.
For another, they're squabbling over ehh "taboo words". :zip: :lol:

Resolution 1 – DO PASS – Resolution Supporting our Republic vs. Democracy

WHEREAS a republic and a democracy are two distinct forms of government; and

WHEREAS the United States Constitution, Article IV, Section 4 guarantees to every
state "a republican form of government" and we pledge allegiance to our country's flag
“and to the Republic for which it stands;” and

WHEREAS John Adams stated "Democracy...while it lasts is more bloody than either
aristocracy or monarchy. Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes,
exhausts, and murders itself. There is never a democracy that did not commit suicide;”
and

WHEREAS the Republican Party is the party of limited, Constitutional government, and
the Democratic Party promotes progressivism and socialism; and

WHEREAS every time the word "democracy" is used favorably it serves to promote the
principles of the Democratic Party, the principles of which we ardently oppose;

THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED that the Washington State Republican Party, in
convention assembled, acknowledges that our nation is intended to be a republic, not a
democracy; and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that we encourage Republicans to substitute the words
"republic" and "republicanism" where previously they have used the word "democracy;"
and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that we support legislation that preserves the republican
nature of our government institutions and oppose legislation which makes our nation
more "democratic" in nature, and that, while we favor and encourage liberty in all
nations, we oppose all efforts to use American military might to spread "democracy"
around the world. — 2024 WSRP Resolutions Page 2 of 15

my fear today is, however, that MAGA terrorists will try to make the US ungovernable (therefore, acutely vulnerable to national security threats from Russia, China and/or the Middle East) in the weeks and months following, if not before, the ROEvember election — 180 Proof

Yeah, they'd be handing those other forces a gift.

The Clown supporters I've chit-chatted with don't think about or care that their efforts add to efforts beyond their neighborhood against them — Mar 12, 2024

Was The Donald on the move back in 1963? :)

, the Clown isn't anti-state. Just pro-Clown-state.

↪jorndoe Clickbait article :yawn: — Lionino

Maybe? I've seen worse. Besides ...
The Seattle Times: mediabiasfactcheck, adfontesmedia, biasly

I wouldn't quite put it past Lukashenko and friends to stage a fake attack on Belarus by, say, Lithuania or Latvia. Possibly (or likely) coordinated by the Kremlin circle, in such a case.
If it was believed by many to be an attack initiated by Lithuania or Latvia (perhaps sufficiently well-staged with accompanying propaganda), and Belarus mounted a counterattack, then what would NATO's role be?

10-minute interview with Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya ...
Everybody opposing the regime automatically declared extremist: Exiled Belarusian opposition leader
^{— Mercedes Stephenson · Global News · Apr 28, 2024}



Russia will sink Britain under nuclear tide with Satan 2 missiles if NATO intervenes in Ukraine, vows top Putin stooge
^{— Sayan Bose, Will Stewart · The Irish Sun · Apr 29, 2024}

If NATO countries send their troops into Ukraine in order to inflict a strategic defeat on Russia, then the very moment about which Putin once said, ‘Why do we need the world, if there is no Russia in it?’ would come. Then everything [all types of missile] would be launched by us, in every direction - Sarmats, Yars, and Avangards. — Kiselyov

Without any such troop having set foot in Russia, or any such country having attacked Russia?

Don't know what to make of this...

The WA GOP put it in writing that they’re not into democracy
^{— Danny Westneat · The Seattle Times · Apr 24, 2024}

, from my interactions with some of those folk, I think some of your comments are fairly accurate.

Anarchists — Metaphysician Undercover

Maybe some. But otherwise evangelical types, Mormons, angry hardliners, ..., all the way through mad conspiracy theorists, ...
My impression is that extremism is (getting) more common than I thought a few years back — note there are also intellectuals stoking the fires.
In part, things seen before in the history books.

I guess this has been abandoned.

Geneva Conventions » Protocol I » Article 1 - General principles and scope of application:

• 1. The High Contracting Parties undertake to respect and to ensure respect for this Protocol in all circumstances.
• 2. In cases not covered by this Protocol or by other international agreements, civilians and combatants remain under the protection and authority of the principles of international law derived from established custom, from the principles of humanity and from the dictates of public conscience.
• 3. This Protocol, which supplements the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949 for the protection of war victims, shall apply in the situations referred to in Article 2 common to those Conventions.
• 4. The situations referred to in the preceding paragraph include armed conflicts in which peoples are fighting against colonial domination and alien occupation and against racist régimes in the exercise of their right of self-determination, as enshrined in the Charter of the United Nations and the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.

Geneva Conventions » Protocol I » Article 52 - General protection of civilian objects:

• 1. Civilian objects shall not be the object of attack or of reprisals. Civilian objects are all objects which are not military objectives as defined in paragraph 2.
• 2. Attacks shall be limited strictly to military objectives. In so far as objects are concerned, military objectives are limited to those objects which by their nature, location, purpose or use make an effective contribution to military action and whose total or partial destruction, capture or neutralization, in the circumstances ruling at the time, offers a definite military advantage.
• 3. In case of doubt whether an object which is normally dedicated to civilian purposes, such as a place of worship, a house or other dwelling or a school, is being used to make an effective contribution to military action, it shall be presumed not to be so used.

Geneva Conventions » Protocol I » Article 57 - Precautions in attack:

• 1. In the conduct of military operations, constant care shall be taken to spare the civilian population, civilians and civilian objects.
• 2. With respect to attacks, the following precautions shall be taken:
  
  • (a) those who plan or decide upon an attack shall:
    
    • (i) do everything feasible to verify that the objectives to be attacked are neither civilians nor civilian objects and are not subject to special protection but are military objectives within the meaning of paragraph 2 of Article 52 and that it is not prohibited by the provisions of this Protocol to attack them;
    • (ii) take all feasible precautions in the choice of means and methods of attack with a view to avoiding, and in any event to minimizing, incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians and damage to civilian objects;
    • (iii) refrain from deciding to launch any attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated;
  • (b) an attack shall be cancelled or suspended if it becomes apparent that the objective is not a military one or is subject to special protection or that the attack may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated;
  • (c) effective advance warning shall be given of attacks which may affect the civilian population, unless circumstances do not permit.
• 3. When a choice is possible between several military objectives for obtaining a similar military advantage, the objective to be selected shall be that the attack on which may be expected to cause the least danger to civilian lives and to civilian objects.
• 4. In the conduct of military operations at sea or in the air, each Party to the conflict shall, in conformity with its rights and duties under the rules of international law applicable in armed conflict, take all reasonable precautions to avoid losses of civilian lives and damage to civilian objects.
• 5. No provision of this Article may be construed as authorizing any attacks against the civilian population, civilians or civilian objects.

After all, prior violation can be used as an excuse, civilian targets can be declared military targets, the words can be made to override the intent, ...

, ah, but you won't find any purely deductive dis/proof of solipsism.
You might think that I'm just a figment of your mind — rude. :)

Seems you've moved on from that, as noted by...

Certainly this – what you describe here – is mind-independent, no? — 180 Proof

:up:

Anyway, differentiating fact and (false) opinion can sometimes take a bit of work.

, I guess we do away with errors, delineate propositions, build on what has worked, assess evidence + reason, ...
Epistemic standards is a comprehensive area, yet even common sense is fine on occasion.
Claims come in all "shapes and sizes", justification likewise.
(In analogy, I wouldn't ask a blacksmith to do heart surgery, or a surgeon to craft a Claymore.)
For an existential claim, I'd just start out simple ...

• if you're referring to something extra-self, then show us something
  ^{(existentially mind-independent, objective, applicable to us all)}
• if you're referring to something you have on your mind, then tell us about it
  ^{(often enough existentially mind-dependent, subjective)}
• if extra-self, then explain your interaction therewith
  ^{(that others may differentiate you and the claimed)}

Or something like that.

, without aid, Ukraine would eventually get rolled over by Russia.
Conversely, if supporters went by "give them what they want if they stay democratic (and reasonable)" (just an amendable example), then the invaders would likely eventually get pushed out.
Somewhere in between, who knows?
In (and between) democracies, decisions like that aren't particularly typical, decisions aren't dictated by one/few, there are many voices, which is an advantage for autocracies here.

NATO Spending by Country 2024 (World Population Review)
Which Countries Meet NATO’s Spending Target? (Visual Capitalist)
Map shows how much Nato members spend on defence after UK’s £75,000,000,000 boost (Metro)

Some years ago, I think it was @BC asking why the heck Denmark needed a bunch of new upgraded F-16s anyway, something like that, a natural question at the time. Military expenditures (and conscription) had overall decreased over the years, but the (current) Kremlin's efforts changed that. The links above show what countries appear most concerned, by and large those in Russia's vicinity, or those seeking the opposite of being (re)enrolled under the Kremlin, or shedding the shackles of Russian dominance.


Russia vetoes a UN resolution calling for the prevention of a dangerous nuclear arms race in space
^{— Edith M Lederer · AP · Apr 24, 2024}

Hm

Lukashenka Says Dozens Of Russian Nukes Deployed in Belarus
^{— RFE/RL · Apr 25, 2024}

☢ ... I was still looking at the Belarusian allegations against Lithuania. Also:

Belarus reveals alleged plot to attack Minsk from EU
^{— RT · Apr 25, 2024}

Something's off here. But, either way, the allegations are serious enough to require substantiation.

^{I'm vaguely reminded of the weird Havana syndrome thing. Some investigators pointed at Russian operations, yet official statements from intelligence agencies explicitly said they couldn't support that hypothesis. The allegation is serious, requiring proportional/relevant substantiation, which wasn't available, hence no such allegation. :up:}

The Belarusian allegations require substantiation, and, if that doesn't materialize, then another explanation of the allegations. I've been unable to find anything anyway.

The KGB of Belarus announced the prevention of strikes by drones from Lithuania on Minsk
^{— TASS · Apr 25, 2024}
Belarus says it thwarted attack on capital by drones launched from Lithuania
^{— Emelia Sithole-Matarise · Reuters · Apr 25, 2024}

This I don't find plausible. Fairly serious allegation. Doesn't really make much sense. (If anything at all, wouldn't they make a move on Kaliningrad?)

, in line with

A peace may be so wretched as not to be ill exchanged for war. — Tacitus (56 — 120)

All hypothetical imperatives
^{— Peter Neumann · ZEIT ONLINE · Apr 23, 2024}

The Chancellor spoke in Berlin on the 300th birthday of the philosopher Immanuel Kant. Olaf Scholz tried to counter the appropriation of Kant by Vladimir Putin.

re: Voyager-1
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-68881369 — 180 Proof

46 years and counting :)

Wildfire season roars to life in parts of central B.C.
^{— Rhythm Reet · The Weather Network · Apr 21, 2024}

Bit early? Last year was bad enough.

Argentina asks to join NATO as President Milei seeks a more prominent role for his nation
^{— AP · Apr 18, 2024}

Unexpected? (Maybe it can help with the Falkland debacle?)

Aid to Kiev to make US richer, Ukraine more bankrupt — Kremlin spokesman
^{— TASS · Apr 20, 2024}

The decision to provide aid to Ukraine was anticipated and predictable. This will make the United States of America far richer but will ruin Ukraine further, making more Ukrainians killed because of the Kiev regime. — Peskov

:D Same old crap. → crayons ←

W93 ← well, I saw this response coming, however unfortunate the circumstances :/

Godfather (1972) — Mikie

excellent movie — javi2541997

Some day, and that day may never come, I will call upon you to do a service for me. — Don Corleone

(... what I try to imitate (poorly) when someone asks me a favor)

Just have to watch the sequel though after the original. :)

I don't think there is anyone being an expert in all fields that has/had subject matter experts; maybe that indicates limits of sorts?

, believing literally ... a few 1000 years ago some people lived 900 years, there was a magical world flood some 1000s years ago, the supernatural Yahweh character spoke commands to the Moses character as a burning bush, Yahweh boomed to His tribe / Moses on Mount Sinai, Moses + 600000 wandered the desert for decades due to Yahweh's trickery ... really isn't smart. Myths, legends, stories, ... But of course anyone is free to believe whatever, that part isn't negotiable. Anyway, stuff for another thread (or not). (And what's with Yahweh being so selective (His special tribe etc) anyway?)

Republicans denounce Russia propaganda within their own party:
https://www.aol.com/news/luxury-yachts-other-myths-republican-090000423.html — neomac

Yeah. Though I think it's been known for some time. (*cough* this thread has examples)

Then again, there's an elected official that believes planet Earth, and the universe, is a few thousand years old, incidentally a colleague of Vance mentioned in the article. Real life beats dramatized comedy.

Was just going over some analyses of seemingly influential dis/mal/misinformation campaigns, maybe I'll post something later. Will likely remain applicable for the foreseeable future. — Mar 8, 2024

↑ Tedious. Linvill, Warren and team has done some, as mentioned in the article.

and the fact that Ukraine is extremely corrupt (meaning people with power do bad things against the interests of the population) — boethius

Evidently, shedding the shackles of the dominating neighbor is no small task; they're trying though, and have shown willingness to reform in the middle of bombs exploding. The Kremlin wouldn't afford them much chance; some others apparently hardly would either.

is complete bullshit. Another ridiculous misrepresentation. — Mikie

Chomsky aside, this sort of thing sure is represented around here. :D

There were some rumors on the street that Russia is accruing much debt to China. Details are scarce, though. Anyone?

Drones + missiles one way, planes + missiles the other:

Exclusive: Iran sends Russia hundreds of ballistic missiles
^{— Parisa Hafezi, John Irish, Tom Balmforth, Jonathan Landay, Steve Holland, Phil Stewart, Daniel Flynn · Reuters · Feb 21, 2024}
Russia Uses Iranian Drones In Intense Air Campaign Against Ukraine
^{— Iran International · Mar 30, 2024}

Russian weapons help Iran harden defenses against Israeli airstrike
^{— Joby Warrick · The Washington Post · Apr 15, 2024}
Russia's arms pact with Iran: Moscow pledges fighter jets and air defenses to Tehran including advanced missiles capable of shooting down US and Israeli stealth planes
^{— Will Potter · Daily Mail Online · Apr 16, 2024}

And some weapons "rerouted":

U.S. Government Transfers Captured [Iranian] Weapons [to Ukraine]
^{— U.S. Central Command · Apr 9, 2024}

So, anyway, the war seems to roughly have drawn up ...
▸ Russia, Belarus, North Korea, Iran, China
—versus—
▸ Ukraine, Europe, North America, South Korea, Australasia, Japan
... or something along those lines. So far at least. Much like certain someones' idea of a bipolar :smile: world. Whatever happens, might then see future changes accordingly. As of typing, North Korea seems a bit like a loose cannon or wildcard. Could they trigger something?

While checking

Undersea ‘hybrid warfare’ threatens security of 1bn, Nato commander warns
^{— Miranda Bryant · The Guardian · Apr 16, 2024}

an old report came to mind

Russia targets Netherlands' North Sea infrastructure, says Dutch intelligence agency
^{— Anthony Deutsch, Bart Meijer, Hugh Lawson, Susan Fenton · Reuters · Feb 20, 2023} — Feb 20, 2023

A Russian ship has been detected at an offshore wind farm in the North Sea as it tried to map out energy infrastructure, MIVD head General Jan Swillens said at a news conference. — Jan Swillens

Is a defense posture warranted?