Yeah I think that was a good thing. Quite a few discussions end up getting derailed or sidetracked with multiple off-topic comments that go off on a tangent.I've deleted that stuff for being off-topic. — Michael
I didn't ask you whether you disagreed or not. Can you please answer the question?Thanks for your opinion, with which I disagree. — StreetlightX
Yes they can. How about they stop going to clubs, they stop dressing almost naked, etc. Then they will really make a point. Can you imagine it? Only men in the clubs? Then even the clubs will go out of business! What will the men grab? Each other's bottoms? Grabbing keeps happening precisely because of complicity in sharing in a morally corrupt culture.They can't be much clearer about that than they have been recently. — Benkei
No, it's not worth trying to stop it in a stupid & hypocritical way. It's a systematic problem that emerges out of the cultural understanding and lack of moral values that Western man (and woman) have about sex.So, what? It's not worth trying? That we shouldn't at least hold the guilty accountable (e.g. Weinstein)? — Michael
No, it doesn't justify making random assumptions about people. But maybe the assumption isn't random - maybe I've seen them watching BDSM, maybe they told me they tried it and liked it in the past, etc.Sure, and there are people out there who like BDSM. But you don't use that to try to justify acting on the assumption that maybe the person you're with likes that sort of thing. — Michael
If my way, and the way of these #MeToo people are the same, then let them follow me and my rules. If a woman goes scantily dressed and is grabbed, 3 months in jail for both the woman and the man who grabbed her. If you, and the #MeToo movement disagree with that, then you're not trying to do the same thing as I am.
Well, that's not true for all women. I mean, you'd be hardpressed to show that there are no women out there who like to be objectified for example. I've met some, and they will outright tell you that they have no problem with that, and they even desire it.It is indeed and should be a social restriction on how a lot men behave towards women because women don't want to be treated that way. — Benkei
And pomo-bashing or third-wave feminism bashing is right wing? >:OA good 50 % of their pieces in the last month were nothing more than postmodernism bashing or feminism bashing. — Akanthinos
Well, let's see BC. Marx told you that material conditions determine the ideas. So granted that Akanthinos is dating a stripper who would smother her own child and thinks being pregnant is being 'disfigured', what do you reckon his opinions about POMO and third-wave feminism will be? >:)Well... you don't like the alt-right, you don't like academic criticism of BS, and you don't like Trotskyist socialist rags, what the hell do you like? — Bitter Crank
Here's the deal - society is hypocritical. If grabbing isn't okay, then it should never be okay, not in some circumstances okay, and in others not okay. There are situations in society when such behaviours are even expected - and that's a problem when you're trying to say that society shouldn't consider it acceptable because you must also eliminate those situations. I mean, if you go in a nightclub in a developed country like the UK, I can guarantee you, 100%, that there will be a lot of unsolicited grabbing going around. What do you do about that? Because people even expect it to happen in such places.It's not the slap that's the problem but the society that considers this acceptable. It shouldn't be. So it's all commentary on those social norms and the acts being an expression of that aren't really the issue here. — Benkei
The idea of progress often (not always) has an end-vision in sight. We're progressing towards some particular goal. Without a particular goal, we cannot know whether a change is progressive or regressive. As you well note, we can establish such a goal when it comes to technology - technology that can do the same job with fewer or cheaper resources (or faster) counts as a tick for progress.I don't think Philosophy makes progress, but neither does literature, music, or art. Which doesn't mean within these non-progressing fields there is never anything new or improved. Technology can make progress, because yesterday's tools can be remodeled, combined, and given new applications. A waterwheel can be replaced by a better waterwheel or better gearing. A higher dam can be built. Eventually the waterwheel can become a turbine and extract even more power out of falling water. That's "progress".
Art, philosophy, literature, or music are much less about technology and more about an individual reflecting on the realities of his times. Sophocles, Shakespeare, or Miller and Mamet all hit the target of drama. From the earliest music to today's latest, music soothes us savage beasts (or stirs us for the battle). The early philosophers take on what makes a life good may not be the final answer, but it a good answer that one is likely to get. — Bitter Crank
At the time I wrote that, I had not voted ;) - I only voted a few hours later."Would have"! What, you didn't vote on your own poll? — Janus
Well he is a Platonist per my understanding since he extends the tradition Plato->Aristotle->Plotinus->Augustine->Aquinas. I've only dipped into Insight very little as well, but I have read a few secondary works about his philosophy. This was a good book.I'm not sure whether I would count him as a Platonist. — Janus
I agree - this is only in the sense that some metaphysical systems are more open to certain aspects of being than others.I think some metaphysical systems are more coherent and consistent with the whole range of human experience; aesthetic, ethical, religious, scientific, phenomenological and so on, than others. — Janus
Yeah, this is what it means for a metaphysical system to be closed off from certain areas of being.So, for example for someone who rejects the reality of religious experience there is no demand that metaphysical systems must account for religious experience; although they would still nedd to account for the belief that there are purported illusions of religious experience. — Janus
Why do you call it the "consumption" model? Consumption implies that it is something that one must do over and over again, there is no terminus. Whereas when we speak of "solving" problems, and doing so definitively, then we're really speaking about getting rid of problems once and for all, no longer having to concern ourselves with them.Is it just the "solving" of problems, in the "consumption" model of knowledge? — darthbarracuda
Perhaps, if you're the kind of person who likes to go round and round for no reason, except for the going round and round. I personally disagree with the view of philosophy as end-in-itself, rather than as a means. It can, however, be a means to an end that is complementry to philosophical activity itself, such as the clarification of thought.Or can it be the appreciation of questions themselves, and the creation of new questions? — darthbarracuda
Yes, exactly. A lot of this has to do with personality. For me, I always experience some "anxiety" (if you can call it that - I think psychological discomfort is a better way to put it) whenever I have a problem to solve, whether it be philosophy, business, or otherwise. Indeed, it is the anxiety that motivates me to solve it and pursue the problem, at least most of the time.A lot of this I think has to do with whether we see philosophical issues as problems or questions. Problems implies we're anxious to figure things out and move on. — darthbarracuda
I'm not so sure. I think each person has a goal or mission in the world, that is part of their very being, and it's up to each one of us to discover what that is, and then do it. So I don't think everything is endless and pointless - things are quite definite. Once you finish university, you have your degree (but more importantly your knowledge), and that's that for example.Typically they ignore the fact that everything else is endless and pointless. — darthbarracuda
Ta-da! Enlightenment! >:O Ataraxia as the Pyrrhonists would say ;)Once you think you've "solved" a philosophical problem it seems to end up being dull and banal, like a dead weight you drag around. You wonder what the whole fuss was about, and why it's seen as so important. — darthbarracuda
The issue here is that people who have this sort of personality often risk pursuing some goal merely to escape from boredom, which actually prevents them from fully knowing themselves. I think a truly enlightened person cannot pursue some goal merely because of boredom - indeed, such a person ought to be free from boredom even if all they do is stare at a wall all day, like the old Zen patriarch Bodhidharma.If there's still a good reason to explore the world and discover new things it's because it's fun to hang out with friends and have a common goal. It's not very "aristocratic", but who cares. — darthbarracuda
That's not exactly true. If you look at the process of evolution theoretically, then... well let me draw a diagram.Sure, but the very limits of the mechanics would be themselves evolutionarily derived: that a heart wall is this thick and not that thick, that bone density would be such and not so, is not just an accident of mechanics but a function of evolutionary honing. — StreetlightX
Don't forget that the mechanics of the situation do change when the animal changes size. They have bigger hearts, more cells, etc.. Even if it is granted that metabolic regulation might be able to kick into gear during a such a stress-event, no regulation would be able to keep up in the face of such permanence stress (and it would be an understatement to even call 'stress' itself an understatement here). — StreetlightX
Sure, there are some mechanical limits to what regulation can do, as I said. I haven't found a mechanical limit with regards to temperature, just your assertion that the difference seems to be too big.You keep leaning on 'regulation' as though it were some magical instrument that can simply alter metabolic and other rates willy nilly: but this simply flies in the face of any understanding of evolution and doesn't deserve to be taken seriously. — StreetlightX
I would have voted "No", "No", and "Platonism" most likely.I voted 'Yes' and 'other'. — Janus
I think it's of the nature of experiences though to allow a multitude of explanations. As such, no one metaphysical system will be satisfactory for all in the end - it will end up by being a matter of taste. The reason for this is that any finite number of data points (experiences) will have an infinite number of "right" possible explanations.On the other hand, philosophical system building is motivated by a desire to come up with a metaphysical system that includes and makes sense of all of our experience. — Janus
Whitehead is one of the few figures in philosophy that I've never read, nor have I read any secondary sources about him either. So I'm not sure where to locate him. I have heard he was one of the champions of process philosophy though... so, would you say that his thought is similar to Bergson? Or maybe more like Peirce even?I think of all philosophers Whitehead has come closest to achieving that. — Janus
So if the mouse gets a bigger heart, then of course pulse rate will change. Likewise, if the mouse grows much bigger through the resizing, with more cells, etc. of course the metabolism rate will be adjusted, some of the mitochondria will stop working or slow down, etc.Controlling pulse (and blood pressure) is an integral part of your body's self-regulation mechanism, and it usually can control it over a very wide range, which is only limited by the mechanics of the situation. — Agustino
This is probably wrong - the "only ever" is probably wrong. What you should say is that immanence restricts the possibilities of form, not that it outright determines them. There are some forms that, given immanent conditions (such as Earth's gravity, temperature, etc.) are impossible.All in all: form is only ever the product of immanence. — StreetlightX
Sure, but there's nothing contradictory in it. It's just a waste of material. Scaling an elephant to the size of a mouse would be more plausible than the other way around.The girth of elephant legs on a small creature would be idiotic - without the nibleness they provide, they'd be hunted down and eaten in no time. — StreetlightX
Did dinosaurs have massive ears? :B This ears argument is nonsense. Sure, hippos spend PART of the time in water. But not all of it - they also spend part of the time in the sun.And with respect to ears, Aug spoke of hippo ears, and seemed to forget that Hippos spend most of the time in water, which does the majority of their cooling for them, so have no need for the massive ears of elephants: — StreetlightX
It might be possible, although it's difficult to state for sure. Bodies are self-adapting organisms. Take the human heart. It usually beats at 60bpm - it can beat at 200bpm when you're running for your life. And it can beat at 600bpm if you have an illness like atrial fibrillation which interferes with your heart's electric systems' ability to control heart contractions. So, that's a x10 difference. And it can be handled. Now when the human heart is smaller (when you're a baby), your resting pulse can be as high as 150bpm. As the heart grows, its capacity to pump blood improves significantly faster, so pulse generally reduces. Controlling pulse (and blood pressure) is an integral part of your body's self-regulation mechanism, and it usually can control it over a very wide range, which is only limited by the mechanics of the situation.But you're severely underestimating the significance of such a change here, I think. — StreetlightX
Yes, this is a more likely cause of failure than too high internal temperature, or other self-regulation failures which are unlikely to take place. But again, you don't understand the reason why - you're relying on the somewhat blind intuition that the proportions are not right. This is a mechanical issue. So following Euler's buckling formula and modelling the mouse's leg as a cylindrical column, when we increase both radius and length by a factor of n, then Euler buckling load will increase by a factor of n2. (data from here and here).And this isnt' even to speak of the phyisological differences. As a furter instance, an elephant's skeleton makes up about 16.5% of an elephants total weight. This is a huge proportion - just under a sixth of it's body mass - one that is necessary precicely in order to support the elephant's giant weight. A mouse's skeleton by contast makes up about 8% of it's body weight, reflective of the fact that it simply doesn't need the kind of supportive structure that an elephant has. — StreetlightX
And building on that, likewise, your body is also a cumulation of experiences, and nothing more. So in the end, it's all experience - both your body and the sun. There is nothing apart from the experience.The sun is nothing apart from your experience of it. So the warmth + the sight + etc. all the other impressions of it. Why do you feel the need to postulate a sun outside of experience? All that we mean by "sun" is a certain cumulation or association of experiences (the certain warmth, the certain sight, etc.) — Agustino
The sun is nothing apart from your experience of it. So the warmth + the sight + etc. all the other impressions of it. Why do you feel the need to postulate a sun outside of experience? All that we mean by "sun" is a certain cumulation or association of experiences (the certain warmth, the certain sight, etc.)I feel the warmth of the sun on my body when I go outside my house but the sun I see, I conclude is way outside of me, it is at a distance unlike my warm skin which is at no distance from me. The pain I feel from my stubbed toe, is hardly the same as my experience of the chair that I stubbed it on. How can you not get this difference, since it is only through our body that we can experience the world? — Cavacava
But still, there will be no fire outside of your (possible) experience.We build on our conclusions, when I see smoke, I don't have to see the fire to imagine it. I can imagine how it might feel to be weightless in space, even though I have never experienced it. We conclude causes we don't experience them as such, and we can be wrong. — Cavacava
Notice the continuation "if by that we mean outside of experience"? I will take that as a yes. If so, then no, I disagree. The smoke and the assumed fire are both within the realm of phenomenal experience. We see the effect and must look for the cause within experience - there are no causes outside of experience.Of course it makes sense to talk of things outside our self. — Cavacava
I disagree that any such a limit really exists. Everything I experience is the same. I experience pain, just like I experience sunshine. Why is one outside, and the other inside? It seems somewhat arbitrary.Our body is not like any other thing, it is not outside of us it is the limit, what separates the inside from the outside. — Cavacava
I don't think it makes sense to talk of things "outside" of us, if by that we mean outside of experience. Our body is known within experience, and it is known as well as any other things can be known within experience.If by that you mean things in them self, things outside of us, then yes I agree no access. It is a different story when it comes to the body, which is not beyond us, which is in my estimation the locus of the unity we call our self. — Cavacava
I don't think you've read Kant. Or at any rate understood what he was saying. If you did, you would know that Kant spoke of transcendental conditions which must exist for any experience at all to be possible.I think Kant would be as confused at your thinking as others are. — charleton
Right, so if everything is the phenomenal, then we don't have access to anything beyond it.The phenomenal is real, it is the basis for what we conclude, not the other way around. — Cavacava
The stick is phenomenally bent in water that's the way we experience it, we conclude that it is not bent, that light refracts its image and that the stick only appears bent. — Cavacava
In addition to my previous remarks, consider a game. I play a game when the experience of seeing a stick bent in water is the signal to participants in the game to take a certain key action. Would I, in those cirumstances, say that the stick isn't really bent? No, of course not! Because it really is bent in that case. So as you can see, depending on what is useful to us, we make different choices in the distinctions we make. This doesn't make those distinctions real.And what do you really mean by it isn't really bent? All that you mean is that in a certain experience (looking at the stink in water from outside the water), it really is bent. And that in a different experience - looking at the stick in water from inside the water yourself - it isn't bent. All that is, is two different experiences. Why do you feel the need to pick and choose one as the "reality" and the other as the "appearance"? You should take both of them as equally valid, because, in fact, they are. The only reason why you prioritise the one over the other is because it makes calculations easy - so again, predictions. Because you want to predict, you create the useful fiction of 'reality' and 'appearance', when in truth, no such distinction exists. — Agustino
No, there is no thing apart from the thought. The thing is the thought. Or if you don't like it this way, there is one thought (the word) and another thought (idea, ie vague impression) which is the thing. Both are in the present.The "thing thought about" is in the future. — Metaphysician Undercover
Why?We have a distinction between the act of thinking, which is in the present, and the "thing thought about". — Metaphysician Undercover
Sure, his description is fictional, just like it's fictional when we say that the sun goes down. But it's a useful fiction.I doesn't matter if it's fictional or not, past and future is a division which enters into Manzotti's description of thinking. Because it is an integral part of his description, then it is real as per that description. To say it is fictional is to say that his description is fictional. — Metaphysician Undercover
This isn't saying anything really. All that you're telling me is that I learn how to manipulate my experience better. I know that if a ball goes out of sight, there is a way to retrieve it, and that is by turning my head first, so that it enters into sight, and then going after it.We learn that objects don't just disappear when they go out of sight, that a ball rolls somewhere, we learn to think causally because this methodology is successful. — Cavacava
Why "bodies"? There are no bodies. There is just experience.Our conclusions are the product of our bodies ability to interact with the world and our ability to learn from those interactions. — Cavacava
And what do you really mean by it isn't really bent? All that you mean is that in a certain experience (looking at the stink in water from outside the water), it really is bent. And that in a different experience - looking at the stick in water from inside the water yourself - it isn't bent. All that is, is two different experiences. Why do you feel the need to pick and choose one as the "reality" and the other as the "appearance"? You should take both of them as equally valid, because, in fact, they are. The only reason why you prioritise the one over the other is because it makes calculations easy - so again, predictions. Because you want to predict, you create the useful fiction of 'reality' and 'appearance', when in truth, no such distinction exists.The stick is phenomenally bent in water that's the way we experience it, we conclude that it is not bent, that light refracts its image and that the stick only appears bent. — Cavacava
I wonder what you'd say to Kant :pGet a life.
I've no idea what is wrong with your ability to think. — charleton