As someone said, the only unnatural sex act is an impossible sex act. People like sex, and whatever happens to arouse them at the moment can lead to sex. — Bitter Crank

True, but: Birds like the Bowebird do all they do to attract a mate. The lyre bird does all it does to attract a mate. The animal kingdom is full of examples of how genetics drive the courtship practice for the end goal of procreation. Then, here we are. I am saying all of this before watching the provided video, or any further research into this topic. I say that because I may be coming from a place of continued ignorance, hence my questions may be answered and I just do not know it yet. If genetics is driven by evolution & natural selection, it would seem that attraction & arrousal in humans would be as it is in the animal kingdom, unless there is another factor in us that allows us to choose against our genetics. Thanks for the response.

Thanks for the info. I will check it out

People may disagree, but what do people tend to do in practice? Typically people act as if there is no god in the moment and repent later. A belief in god doesn’t free one from being human. — TogetherTurtle

What people are you speaking of? Faith in God does free you from acting a certain way. You no longer are indebted to anyone but Him, which frees you. Maybe I can explain it a little better. Societies are always changing and they all have different values. A debt to one society may be turning in your Jewish neighbor to the Nazis or pointing to where the Tutsi woman is hiding so tyour fellow Hutu can kill them. On top of that people are self-centered, and they will congregate with those like them, forming a society of like minded people. Even a good society has great potential of becoming ugly. If your debt is to society then it can very well be a debt of division and death. Christ said our debt is to God, and from that debt to Him flows a payment of love for everyone, even your enemies. That is the only thing that can hold us together. Of course people are going to be people, and act wrongly. You owe them nothing. But because you owe God, you love them anyway. You cannot worry about them. A profession does not make someone a Christian. Jesus said "they give me lip service but their hearts are far from Me," and, "you will know them by their fruits." As to did He exist, I would love to have that conversation, but not here, I think. If you would as well, let me know.

I'm sorry, what? Capitalism is business in your hands, with you at the helm. The only other option is to put it in the governments hands. How has that faired for anyone? There is a reason why people fled their countries to come to a capitalist nation. I'm pretty sire the people of Taiwan are happy with it. I'm pretty sure the people of South Korea are happy with it. They stand in stark contrast to their non capitalist neighbors. What do you mean capitalism is the only power system that still exists? Capitalism is not the only power system. The government still exists and it is a power system. If capitalism is a power system, it is at least one (maybe the only one) that you or anyone are free to be a part of, not as a consumer, but as a businessman or woman. It is there and it can set you free if you go at it with hard work, intelligence and a little luck. It is the American dream; that you can reap the rewards of your own labor. It is your right to succede or fail at you own hands. Capitalism is you succeeding because you did it, not because the government made you successful. Capitalism is you failing because you did it, not because the government caused you to fail. You are the power in the capitalist system.

Generally, I think this is the debt that keeps us all together. If someone loves and appreciates you, you're compelled to give back. — TogetherTurtle

Not everyone agrees with that, which is why people throughout history who have tried to undo some of the opression of self centered thinking have said things like: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Jesus also said, "you have heard it said to love your neighbor, but I say love your enemy. For if you only love those who do good to you, you are no different than those who opress you."(+/-) Why would Jesus say that? Because our debt is not to society, but to God. Loving God requires that you love your fellow man, even those whom you hate.

I get that part. Robert Jastrow noted that much:

"For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountain of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."

I was hoping for a more philosophical idea, I guess. I really don't know what I am looking for.

Just the lenders. Those are the ones that feel like shackels. I don't think I owe society anything that prevents or holds me back. The same way it helps me I hlep it. What do you consider a debt to society?
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Just the lenders. Those are the ones that feel like shackels. I don't think I owe society anything that prevents or holds me back. The same way it helps me I hlep it. What do you consider a debt to society?

Being debt free while not being homeless and walking everywhere.

AL-GHĀZALĪ (1058–1111), argued for the begiining of the universe as a part of his argument for the existence of God. The first thing that struck me about this was that he found a way to show that the universe had a beginning long before modern science conceded in a lamenting fashion. The Greeks understood that the universe was made of atoms (not the kind with an electorn and nucleus, but just a tiny, fundmental building block of all things) long before science caught up. There are many things that people knew to some degree, long before science did, through the power of the mind simply by thinking and rationalizing things. From what I understand, Tesla would build and test things in his mind. When he did it in reality it was just as his mind had imagined. The scientific method is not the only way we know things. It can be wrong, and will be wrong at times as long as people are doing it because people are biassed and data must be interpreted. The death and rebirth of God has been announced. His death was announced by philosophers because the leaders in philosphy at the time were atheist. His rebirth was announced in a time when the leading philosophers were theists. The scientific method was introduced to us by theist and I believe Christians carried the day for some time in all of the sciences. Right now militant athesit are at the helm. 50 to 100 years from now, Intelligent Design may carry the day.

I wouldn't say we are born with knowledge that makes it to where we don't need learn things, especially language, or math either.

I would think that nothing is more tangible to a person than their own thoughts and experiences. There is a quote I heard a long time ago, but I don't know who it was. It was something like this-- Some say the universe is made of atoms, but I say it is made of stories.

I would say that I agree with it because all that we know comes in the form of a story. I have never seen an atom. I simply believe the story I was told. This is the case for all I know. No on has ever seen the continents drift from a single land mass to where we ae now. People found a bunch of bones and stones and pieced togehter a story. No one has ever seen the big bang. They observed things and did some math and then told the story that they believe and now so do I. It's all a story that is told to us by someone else, or one that we tell ourselves. We compile the stories and form our worldview. If the stories are harmonious then they are more believable and we enter them in as knowledge. If they are not compatible then one must go and we will look for anoter to fill its place. That seems to be the scientific method.

As far as that which is common to us all that would constitute knowledge that is not learned, but innate; our dissatisfaction with the world as it is, seems to be a norm that binds us all together. Why is it that we all find the state of the world to be disgusting? Wouldn't that point to an innate knowledge?

I want to say thank you for this post. This is something I have heard far too often by people who think they have liberated themselves from religion & philosophy by scientific imperialism. At the core of their departure is some missplaced belief that personal experience is invalid in the department of obtaining knowledge. Whereas personal experience is subjective, to reject any knowledge that is based on it limits a person to complete agnosticism that seems to me would cripple a person's ability to accept any conclussion. I can't think of a thing that does not boil down to personal experience (there may be some but I haven't thought of any). Of course they are really just trying to say that the scientific method is the only source of knowledge. But very little in life can be known by this method. During the scientific method, attempts at it will inevitably lead you to a point where you have to trust something that cannot be verified in that manner. If I wanted to verify something as basic to my life as who my parents are, I would have to take someone's word on it. If it boils down to DNA tests then I must choose to trust a very long line of people beginning with the people who claim to have decoded DNA. If I didn't trust the one doing the testing and I did the testing myself then I must choose to trust the machine that I didn't build. If I build the machine then I must choose to trust myself, and by my denial of personal experiences being trustworthy I have to abaondon my disregard for it in order to accept the outcome of the test that I have done using the machine I have built. I know that sounds contrived, but I feel it is simply taking the denial of experience and applying it consistantly. Again, thanks for the post