Random 'verses will never reach Life — Gnomon

The Permanent is all that there is,
It’s transmutations the temporary fizz.
It can’t have direction, with no inputs,
So, it multi verses, seeming as a Wiz.

Do all events have a cause? — 3017amen

Temporary events have causes, but the permanent source has no cause.

Clocks ticking:

computing "what-is" from a zillion variables — Gnomon

Or, the superimposed paths that go on the longest are those that have uniqueness and so they may be the workable ones worth real-izing.

It was Programmed — Gnomon

The Eternal has to be everything,
Superimposed, not a certain pathing;
It can’t have inputs, with no beginning;
So, what chose the song our universe sings?

The Eternal is as a multiverse,
Potentially, with no information,
As in Bable’s Library of all books,
Being as useless as Nothing’s zero.

The universes might all spring forth, somehow,
Most inert or not going far enough,
With some reaching life after a long time,
Such as ours, precarious as it is.

Or, a Programmer sets if-then switches,
Like eight-way 3D Rubic Cube intercepts,
After having set the quarks and leptons
And coding stars to generate atoms.

Then more precise tweaks, to dark energy,
To umpteen decimal places so rare,
And the forming of the DNA code
To stir life’s ingredients stirring slow.

Darn, the n-body problem is so tough,
For unforeseen side-effects e’er arise,
Among branches of the would-be life-tree,
A zillion variables overlapping.

The Programmer sat up at his terminal,
Brought up his 1,000,000,000 line program,
And opened the patient for surgery.
Working swiftly from a red inked printout
Marked up during a long coffee hour.

He clamped off the bleeding capillaries,
Redid most of their interfaces,
And bloodlessly sealed them shut again,
Although these were only preparatory
And minor repairs in auxiliary areas.

Next, the main arteries had to be incised,
And therefore it was no longer possible
To open and unblock the incursions in sequence,

Since indirect ramifications and side concerns
Concerns quickly arose and wildly flared,
As fleeting thoughts, when one thing led to another,

Thereby requiring immediate attendance,
Lest, they, in the formless impressionism
Of the art of computer programming,
Fade to vague remembrance, and reappear later,
Always at an inopportune time, as defects known as bugs.

The phone rang while he was juggling
These evaporating images and so he had to ignore it;
But, no matter, for PhoneMail would record the call.

Twenty minutes later,
He had sutured the incisions and readied
A compile and regression test which would
Either attest to the quality of the operation

Or reveal its fatal errors and necessitate
The revitalization of the patient or, at worst,
Require a restoration to
Preoperative health from a backup file.

…

Finally, after some fourteen billion years,
Proto-man and then homo Sapiens
Arrives, after seven million more years
Of tinkering with monkey chromosomes.

Extinctions swept away many a kind;
Chromosomes fused, leaving the chimps behind;
RNA remembered all survivors;
‘Good fortune’ smiled on the Sapiens mind.

Inintelligently prrogrammed, many climbs
Were the off-the-shelf reach of nature’s grimes,
A dickering Rube Goldberg ‘invention’,
Our nervous system now ruled by ancient times.

But yet it worked; here we are!

Oh Man! What a piece of work—the mind;
What noble deeds done and undone in kind.
What coding updates programmed all upon—
In the layers of brains the mind is made upon.

What is this sapiens mammal animal?
Still made from slime but of a higher call!

There are umpteen repetitive redundancies occurring over and over in this thread causing severe deja vu.

cosmic Programmer — Gnomon

Specs from his notes:
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/339735

The Eternal has to be everything,
Superimposed, not a certain pathing;
It can’t have inputs, with no beginning;
So, what chose the song our universe sings?

“At 1E-5 seconds, quark confinement comes about when the QCD vacuum becomes superconducting to color magnetic current. Quarks and gluons become confined.”

“Ah, the quarks can never exist independently again.”

“At 1E-5 to 1 E-4 seconds, in the hadron era, protons, neutrons, and pions, etc., form. Now our future atoms are on the horizon.”

“What a long road our parts travelled.”

“At 1E-4 seconds, hadron annihilation occurs during a brief period of proton/anti proton and neutron/anti neutron annihilation. A slight favoring of matter over anti matter, possibly locked in by CP violation at reheating allows some very few excess protons and neutrons to survive, with ten billion photons for every matter particle now, which tells us how many annihilations there were, as 10*9, along with how much more there initially was.”

“It’s still a humongous amount of stuff, albeit gone from 2x10*85 particles down to 2x10*76.”

“At 1E-4 to 10 seconds, in the next era, leptons are the dominant energy density, such as electrons. We are up to about one second after the Big Bang now, at neutrino decoupling, when mass energy falls low enough to free neutrinos, creating the neutrino cosmic background.”

“We’ve many hints from the Cosmic Microwave Background, too.”

“At 10 seconds, electrons and positrons annihilate, leaving a tiny fraction of electrons remaining. At this point the total number of electrons equals the total number of protons. This is a beautiful symmetry.”

“Protons are of positive charge, while electrons are negative.”

“From 10 seconds to 57 thousand years is the radiation era, in which photons created from the annihilation of matter and anti-matter dominate the energy density of universe. Light has been let; We will shine.”

“Of course, our shining turns out to be another very slow part, later, in bio evolution, taking four billion years.”

“At 1-5 minutes, nucleosynthesis begins, as fusion of protons creates helium, deuterium and trace amounts of lithium. A few of our basics are there. Hydrogen is already present, it being so simple.”

“From the simple, composites and complexities form, as we ever note, through and through.”

“At 57,000 years, there is matter/radiation equality. The radiation density (photon and neutrino) and matter density (dark and atomic) are equal. This is because radiation density falls more quickly due to the stretching of the relativistic particles’ wavelengths. Dark matter clumps into structures. Atomic matter begins oscillation due to the battle between gravity and photon pressure generating acoustic oscillations. The first sounds of the new universe come forth as the ‘word’.”

“Gravity ever pulls back toward the past but the electromagnetic waves ever pull ahead, toward the future.”

“At 380,000 years, there is recombination, when the temperature falls low enough to allow atoms to form; photons decouple. The true CMB is born, locking in its structure—the story of the earliest times in the universe.”

“The radiation by now has been shifted into the microwave portion of the e/m spectrum.”

“For 5 to 200 million years, there is a dark age, as the photons fall into the infra red energy range. The universe goes dark. The atomic gas continues to fall toward the dark matter clumps, which grow more pronounced. Near to 100 million years, the densest clumps halt their expansion and begin collapsing. By 200 million years, the first mini halos form and within these the atomic cloud cools and collapses to make the very first stars whose light brings to an end the dark era. We are totally the hopes of further stars yet to become. By the way, I forgot that inflation could have been so fast that some virtual particles couldn’t recombine, thus becoming real.”

“It’s auspicious and of good fortune in the Meadows of Heaven. I have a poem of it.”

“At 200 million years, there are the first stars, which are very massive and short lived, but emit some lower atomic elements since this doesn’t require extra energy. They die in violent supernova explosions filling the cosmos with the higher atomic elements that needed energy to be added, building dust for new stars and the planets of solar systems, and the elements for life.”

“The later generation stars are much more metal rich, this needed for solar system life to form.”

“At 200 to 800 million years, there is the epoch of ionization, in which the radiation from the stars and possibly the first quasars, ionizes much of the remaining neutral hydrogen and helium. A thin mist returns and partly obscures the CMB, but future Low Frequency Radio Telescopes may be able to see the epoch of ionization.”

“We’re getting through the first billion years.”

“At 1 to 2 billion years, there become infant galaxies, as star groups merge. There are frequent collisions of galaxies, high star birth rates, and high supernova rates. Heavy element production changes the pattern of star formation, making them lower mass, less luminous and longer lived, like the second generation stars of today. The stage is set for the emergence of life; the cosmos will soon have eyes to see and minds to think, like ours.”

“Um, your ‘soon’ takes another 10 billion years.”

“At 2 to 3 billion years, there is a star birth and quasar peak. In the dense environment of frequent galaxy collisions, the star birth rate reaches it maximum, as does the forming and feeding of supermassive black holes, as horrible darkling beasts. Abandon hope all ye who enter there.”

“Four to five billion years gone, and just as much to go to achieve the very early life of bacteria, who, by the way, took two billion years to make Earth’s atmosphere, by exuding oxygen as a waste product, as it was poisonous to them. Slow indeed.”

“At 6 billion years, there are the first very rich galaxy clusters, since enough time has elapsed for the densest regions to stop expanding and form these clusters. At 7 billion years, there is decelerated acceleration. The effects of dark energy kick in. The universe once again begins to accelerate its expansion rate, but gentler. Gravity has lost the battle.

“At 8 billion years, the first modern spiral galaxies form, although some elliptical galaxies form in the first billion years, but classic spiral galaxies aren’t seen until at about 5 billion years. Let’s skip over the next three billion years. That should be enough time for us to have dinner.”

“Yeah, nothing is near instant but for the Big Bang, and I’m starving.”

(To be continued.)

Have these odes been published in the mundane world? — Gnomon

The video of Flora Symbolica isn't out there yet.

Were the Fae Folk dismissing your quest for a reconciliation of Poetry and Science as a meaningless mission? — Gnomon

No, they loved it; since they are angels and humans combined or an intermediate stage, they know more than we do.

Play those images in succession, and you have the "real" world that we experience one-frame-at-a-time. — Gnomon

Each frame is a whole new 3D universe, with the frame duration being the Planck time and thee frame pixel being thee Plank size. The Programmer made the ultimate DVD video.

But in the hypothetical eternal-state-prior-to-the-Big-Bang all events exist simultaneously (holistically), as in Einstein's Block Universe. — Gnomon

It is that the eternal state was never made and so it has no input and thus it has every possible path in it, but not one special favored path picked out, at least not yet, if we say this using time, and then the Programmer picks a path that becomes our block universe. How's that? More later.

If so, how do we make an exception for the universe? Why does a perfectly normal person infer a designer/occupant from a well-ordered room/space and then contradict him/herself by rejecting a designer for the universe which too is well-ordered? — TheMadFool

You are asking about the regress of how 'God' was ordered, and so on.

He is too busy to attend your boring theist party. Atheists party hard. — Swan

But tonight they're going to act out the Dead Sea Scrolls!

Speaking of half-truths, actually you halfway joined the party already LOL!! — 3017amen

We'll have to send you to a halfway house until you can go all the way.

Storybooks — Swan

Tip your temptation glass at the big Theist party, but be careful not to spill a drop:

The next generation of preachers rely on these primary sources for their own authenticity. Right? — TheMadFool

Can't trust humans, period.

Some humans there at the time didn't go for human Divinity; other humans there at the time did go for human Divinity.

Can't trust humans even if the majority there at the time went against Divinity, no matter if that is one's favored argument.

Three hundred years later, Christianity really caught on. Can't trust humans even if later many went for Divinity, no matter if that is one's favored argument.

all the diverse opinionated preachers (indoctrinators proselytizers) out there, — jorndoe

TV Preachers

I was going through the channels and saw a Catholic priest saying and preaching “If you don’t believe in what we believe then you separate yourself from the holy body and blood and you know what that means. Well, we really don’t like to talk about the consequences of heresy but…”

That was crap.

Here’s a much better preaching idea:

For a good and better life, join the Weed Church:

The Church of the Weed

Weeds are the most energetic and alive things on the planet and therefore we can channel much of this vigor into our own selves. Costly vitamins and energy drinks are no longer needed, weeds being free and abundant. Trust me. Have faith. Weeds have the super power of nuclear energy without any of the explosive side effects.

Some weeds have roots three feet long! Even one molecule left of a pulled weed can regenerate the entire plant. Weeds are of the unlimited power. The weed is the Theory of Everything. This is the greatest discovery of all time.

Our focus is on plain old weeds, but no denomination of weed is excluded, and so the incense smoke spread about would most likely be pot, but I can’t say that here, if it is. This stuff may slightly drain some energy at first, but then the munchies will take over to allow us much and even more ingestion of our special weed salad. However, if anyone turns into a stoned statue that’s really OK since it’s just perfect for a church setting. The social hour and the church hour are exactly the same thing, but we will occasionally say things in honor of weeds and will have all varieties of weed pictures on the wall.

There is a fairly new ‘mile-a-minute’ weed around New York, and so this will be the centerpiece of the altar. Even the pews and chairs will be made out of woven weeds, as a constant reminder of the glory of weeds. The floor will look like the average person’s lawn—mostly weeds and clover and hardly any grass.

The weed salad will be washed down with dandelion wine and will provide such great energy to us all that we will become much more alive and creative, perhaps even posting 20 times a day, never even repeating posts, for our creativity will become unbounded.

The church/social hour would then be the only time that we’d all just be sitting around, instead of, like all day long now for many of the unweeded. The rest of life would become a blur of activity, weeders jumping and sprouting about in all kinds of fun and accomplishments. No one would ever feel bored again.

The weed is the way and the light and the energy.

Weeds entwine all things.

Weeds are our friends.

I can’t just prove all this by words, but if you try hard to think that you know you’re getting energy from weeds, then it will come to you that you know for sure when you try them. Think it and then you will feel it, just like when one watches wrestling shows. Some placebo effects may occur as well.

The Holy Weed Commandments

Thou shalt not step on a weed.
All weeds are to be treated equally.
Thou shalt not kill weeds except to use as food.
Love thy neighbor a whole lot, unless they are a grouch,
But more if they are attractive and you are both single.
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s weeds.

Activities and Outings

Rare and exotic weed expeditions.
Weed planting/harvesting parties.
Place-a-weed-on-every-doorstep program for publicity.
Feed-the-weed product sales for advancing weed growth.
Any questions or suggestions?

And, on others' behalf too, others that supposedly are universal, almighty, etc, yet silent, hidden, apparently indifferent, ... — jorndoe

Yes, humans wrote it all up, having much better penmanship than 'God', I guess.

Some say God is truth
Some say God is false — 3017amen

Would you that spangle of Existence spend
About The Secret—quick about it, Friend!
A Hair perhaps divides the False from True—
And upon what, prithee, may life depend?

A Hair perhaps divides the False and True;
Yes; and a single Alif were the clue—
Could you but find it—to the Treasure-house,
And peradventure to The Master too;

Whose secret Presence through Creation’s veins
Running Quicksilver-like eludes your pains;
Taking all shapes from Máh to Máhi and
They change and perish all—but He remains;

A moment guessed—then back behind the Fold
Immerst of Darkness round the Drama roll’d
Which, for the Pastime of Eternity,
He doth Himself contrive, enact, behold.

—From FitzGerald's Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam

It’s disappointing, I must say. — Possibility

aspects of reality — Gnomon

To the Quantum Depths of the Poetic Universe

From quantum non-locality and entanglement, we know that information is more primary than distance, and that things don’t have to have the appearance of being near each other to be connected and cause an effect.

Everything connected to everything would seem to be a ‘perception’ as far as one could be had by that network. The all-at-once connections, as like in a hologram, would seem to provide for for the direction of what goes on in the overall information process. I am thus thinking like a yogi and a guru, the entire cosmos situated within me.

Quantum non-locality seems to imply that every region of space is in instant and constant contact with every other, perhaps even in time as well, and so the holistic universe is governed by the property of the solitary whole—and so that could be the underlying guidance principle. An individual particle might ‘know’ something about what to do, acting according to all the others.

Thus both our consciousness and the holistic universe, each having a singular nature, would be the clue. Maybe they are of the same basis of fundamental consciousness, but separate as two manifestations, each controlling a different realm, such as internal and external, our internal consciousness giving us ‘future’, and the external consciousness granting ‘future’ to the universe. I don't know which has the tougher job.

Lee Smolin has it that qualia are intrinsic, as fundamental, and Chalmers has it that information is fundamental and can express itself in two ways, in consciousness and in matter.

Quantum entanglement suggests that each particle has the entire 3-D or 4-D map of the universe, the information ever updated, the universe being as a single entity. While this may not be consciousness at the level we have, it may help the universe accomplish something of the movements of particles and fields in their energy, mass, and momentum, in some global way that ever goes forward overall.

This may not seem to be saying a whole lot, in depth, but since the quantum realm is beneath everything then one would surmise that thee quantum realm must have all to do with everything that goes on.

It is still that the apparent atoms and molecules make the happenings, via physical-chemical reactions; however, this observation cannot be equated to an ‘explanation’, for we must wonder what underlies the chemical mattering and reacting that seems to have some unity of direction to it.

Well, I’d finished with the yogis and the gurus, and the seers and the oracles only know of the future; so, I surmised, to uncover the deepness of the present, for nature and the conscious animates, I must seek out the Grand Poet in her Uni-Verse, in order to fully apprehend the ethereal phantasms of the entangled and enchanted forest of nature, hopefully bringing them into the light.

Fortunately, I was a poet myself, and so I could gain entrance to the elfin dell, as a human, having to first pass through the neophytes, trying to resist their temptations and spells; however, the sensual can indeed take a back seat to the intellectual, although the ecstasy can be similar.

I had been to FairyLande once before, bringing my epic poem, ‘Flora Symbolica’, unto them, and writing up the results in ‘Elfin Legends’, and so they had bid me to return one day when I had a meaningful quest.

Theirs was more of an ethereal world, whereas mine was often clunky, except when I dreamt at night, and so it was time for me to wander again, to ask about and better understand the quantum guidance principle, especially learning this from those closer to nature and the heavens, they being the elven mixture of spirit–angel-beings and humans, and quite aware of the causal nexus.

I flew to England, to the special place, near Gallienne’s old haunts, and waited for the funnel to open up into a tunnel, and then through it I came out into their realm and walked on for a full day, seeing no one straight out yet, just a few sideward waverings, but noting many new colors hereto–fore unknown, as here there were more waves and frequencies.

Here the blesséd and haunted old forest,
Whereat the base of an oak I rest,
While all about lay wondrous deep coverts,
And a green-turfed path that leads o’er a crest.

They all knew what I was after, as evidenced in the first encounter with one of them.

“To pass and learn of the connectedness of all things, you must kiss me, after which I’ll give you your first clue.”

The kiss vibrated deep within my being, and I felt it to my core, and then she related, “All of life’s entities embrace one another, including cells, organisms, species, and biotope”.

Slumbering in the orient sunbeam,
I soft awoke, as dewdrops all agleam,
Refreshed by the delight of a daydream,
Then rose as mist, carried on the day-beam.

I was on my way again the next morning, the hours having flown by, as when Einstein had sat next to a pretty girl and had noted the much quicker passage of time, over the slower passage when touching a hot stove.

I learned more as I meandered through the labyrinth of the forest.

She said, “Hold me, and I will unveil some of the poetic structure afterward.”

Well, two days went by, someeehow, and she revealed more of my quest, “Living conscious creatures are as a poem, they ever revealing further dimensions and expressing new properties at every level of organization, via strokes, letters, phonemes, words, phrases, and sentences, in and of a [uni]verse of rhythm, reason, rhyme, meter, metric, and melody. This will relate to the quantum All.”

I was hungry for the continuation of life’s quantum poem, and hoped I’d be able to move on more quickly, but her allure was testing my resolve; however, she told me something very soon after we’d rubbed our cheeks together, “Meanings in life are not just discovered or gleaned by mere observation but by understanding through participation, these informationally derived meanings combined to make sense in a non-reductive process, as in the relational reality of life happening at our semantical level of syntactical information exchange, with no breaking of any of the holistic connections, all this as the epic whole of the book of nature.”

It was so still you could hear a nut fall,
And the musical strain of mystic call,
In soft tones flowered upon the silence,
As floating on the surface of the All.

“There is the particle and there is the wave—either one forced on us by our observations, being jointly known as the ‘wavicle’, all three states of which are truly not the actual reality.”

Of man and angel, one yet neither, they came,
To dwell forever, in shadow worlds, between
Form and substance, they, all elfin creatures
And all who float or fly as came from Paradise.

After two weeks with her, I had to survive the passage through the land of skulls and roses.

Finally, I emerged, unscathed, into the Land of Spring, and found out about growth.

“There are no objects that are identical with themselves over time, and the temporal sequence remains open. Nature is a ‘possibility gestalt’, with the world forming anew each moment, from the deeper, enfolded realm which is a unity in the sense of an indivisible ‘potentiality’ which can realize itself in many possible ways, it not being a strict sum of the partial states.”

‘Twas that time of morn when the exiled rise,
Thrown to time’s Earthly bondage through the skies,
Being for an hour their own Heavenly selves,
Their full glory unhidden by disguise.

“It still appears to us, though, that the world consists of parts that have continued from ‘a moment ago’, and thus retain their identity in time; yet, matter really only appears secondarily, as a congealed potentiality.”

These forest fairies, dryads, nymphs, and fauns,
Ever flash their nude blossoms on the lawns.
They beckon me along, for though the air
I pass thoughts of love, verses, and songs.

“In a stable configuration of matter, such as in the inanimate, all the quantum uncertainties are effectively statistically averaged out, this thus ever being deterministic; but in the case of the statically unstable but dynamically stable configurations, the ‘lively’ features of the underlying quantum structure have a chance to surface to the macroscopic level.”

Magical things I saw, that often appear
Elsewhere when one’s eyes close but for a second:
Wingèd ladies, and flowered butterflies,
Whose prints are pressed as dust upon the pansies.

Unicorns and chimeras wandered by,
With nixies, gremlins, and centaur men;
Faeries danced, caught by a believing glance,
As dreamy visions held me sleepy-eyed.

A flush of youth shot through us, as the chain
Of light from angel to faerie added my link,
And my eyes were sparks of bright burning fire,
Sense extended in a new dimension.

And so they told me more, “Physical phenomena are made of information processors that generate overlappings of correlated multi–dimensional wave fields which are propagating through time, as fields of possibility, whose intensity is a measure of the probability of an object-like realization.”

The life of her face is in her deep blue eyes,
Soft-lipped mouth, and the ears that pointed rise,
As the moon and stars reflect in a pool,
Which look as for a lifetime pours surprise.

“So, there is form before substance, relationality before a materiality that is of secondary importance, its information being primary. Impressions of realizations are left in our world by the gestalt that ‘lives’ in the multidimensional spaces of quantum superpositional possibility.”

I dive into her eyes, her soulful gate,
And worship before her heart’s flaming grate,
Midst flowers in the gardens of her dreams,
Then whirl back up through her eyes as her mate.

“There are no point masses then, but only smudged particles, such as we know of in the space-filling representations of the distribution of electrons in the shells of atoms—the ‘cloud’.

“What remains unchanged over time are certain properties that find expression in the laws of conservation of energy, momentum, electrical charge, etc., these necessarily being closer to the basis of all.”

At last, I met the ultimate Poet, the Elfin Queen, who reevealed, “There is a relationship structure that arises not only from the manifold and the complicated interactions of the imagined building blocks of matter, but also one that is substantially more inherent and holistic.”

She continued, “So, then, the weaves of the quantum bits as strokes makes for the letters of the elementals, as the alphabet of the standard model, forming the words as the atoms that go on to form the molecules as the phrases, on into cells as sentences, up to the paragraphs of the organisms, and unto the stories of the species, via the unity of life’s conscious literature as the unified verse in which we live out our poems.”

I’m left with a feeling that’s no mere spell,
But a fact in Heaven that’s fancy in Hell,
Of elemental affinity’s flame,
Deeper than thought, much older than speech can tell.

I headed back home, this taking a few months, never stepping into the same universe twice.

Pictures from my trip:

a nice poem on God, a mottled color of truth — 3017amen

‘God’s image reflects the mottled colors
Painted by human artists upon the air
Where the wormed apple was before the fall
That rotted away truth’s Tree of Knowledge.

the process goes on — Gnomon

Reality/Language analogy:

Capability is the energy/gravity
that papers the covariant quantum fields
that ink the particles of the standard model
that stroke the alphabet letters of the atoms
(as coded in stars)
that word the dictionary molecules
that phrase the biotype DNA cells
that verb the subjects
that sentence the creatures
that paragraph the species
that story the ongoing tree of life
that books the literature of the unified-verse
that libraries the Cosmos.

(something to work on)

the concept of God is: God is a mottled color of truth. — 3017amen

The concept of 'God' is a concept.

the program for our evolving world — Gnomon

The program doesn't do well; there were five near extinctions, with a sixth on the horizon.

cite their sources - holy books and so-called prophets — TheMadFool

Which are still from humans saying something as if it is true.

10. It doesn’t seem like a God’s world, and so fundamentalist literalist Biblical ‘reasons’ cannot apply here, about a ‘fall’, for those already went away. The pride of being special and deserving of reward and avoiding punishment is still a nice wish, though, for us electro-chemical-bio organisms who appear be be as organic as anything else that grows in nature. Hope grants comfort.

11. God’s operations, curiously restricted to be the same as nature’s has us not being able to tell them apart from nature’s, but which is more likely, the natural or the supernatural? Earth is just where it ought to be, in the Goldilocks zone, and not impossibly out near Neptune.

12. And why must there be a truly distinct transcendent, immaterial, intangible, super realm when it would still have to give and take energy in the physical material language, talking its talk and walking its walk? Dubious, plus the speculation of an invisible realm goes nowhere toward it being so, it tending toward making excuses for what ought to be everywhere.

13. So, we can sit on a fence and go to church half the time or estimate the probability either way, but note that there can be no blame for not knowing what can’t be shown for sure. It’s all in what it does for you.

Let us have wine, lovers, song, and laughter—
Water, chastity, prayer the day after.
Such we’ll alternate the rest of our days—
Thus, on the average, we’ll make Hereafter!

spirit — 3017amen

To perk you up and lift your spirit, kind of:

What if its intention — Possibility

Too fundamental for 'intention'. Minds are billions of years into the future.

But it's still a Materialistic Space-Time concept that can't explain its own existence. — Gnomon

No alternative to it.

motivated by the Intention of eternal omnipotential BEING or G*D — Gnomon

Too complex to be fundamental.

In my thesis, the equivalent to your ZPE was eternal Chaos (random potential), which was enformed by Intention into the organization of our Cosmos. — Gnomon

Yes, necessarily random, having no input.

Since, by the law of Logic, no two things in reality can exist in the same space-time, they are necessarily polarized and repel each other. — Gnomon

Perhaps like one is a positive field lump and the other its a negative field lump (trough).

A human programmer — Gnomon

I was a programmer at IBM for 31 years; have now been retired for near 20 years.

attention; will or determination to achieve something — Possibility

Still the same; it's too simple and small.

How might a necessary-fundamental-eternal-capability begin to develop a system of mind? — Possibility

It wouldn't have a little mind from which to intend to develop a larger system of mind.

drawing distinctions between lower life-forms and higher consciousness... . — 3017amen

Great response. Why do we hope, is there survival value to Faith, Hope and Love? — 3017amen

We wish and hope because we want things, such as to ever continue on in an eternal life.

A learned, smart, philosophical person will never attempt either. — god must be atheist

That's what I am saying. The claims can't be preached or taught as if the claims are true; however, this dishonestly is widespread.

What is leap of Faith? — 3017amen

Wishes and hopes.

Christian Existentialist — 3017amen

Still in one of the camps whose 'God' can't be shown, regardless of their claims.

Any takers? — 3017amen

Of course atheism and theism are untenable since their 'truths' can't be shown, and it gets worse, though, than indefensible, in that it is the height of intellectual dishonesty to proclaim them. The same for anything else that can't be shown.

We developed our abilities over a very long time; they weren't just granted to us. I'm not musical, though.

perhaps it was programmed to evolve gradually over eons, via natural processes. — Gnomon

I think the eternal first cause needs to be simple and operate at a tiny level, as near-nothing, to qualify as fundamental, and of course would still be doing its eternal thing now, such as with the quantum fluctuations at the base point energy level. (They actually call it the zero point energy; however, the energy doesn't seem to be zero.)

Virtual particles get produced in pairs, probably because the first cause, not able to halt and be still, has to jiggle/divide something into haves that it then has to put back into the base, and so forth, with these two effects always having to both occur, one ever after the other.

Somehow the pair's virtual particles were driven apart (inflation?) and so became separated and real faster than they could annihilate and return the energy.

The above is sketchy, but once we have some particles persisting a bit, the real 'programming'/'coding' would be done at each new level, such as quarks coding for protons and neutrons, those then coding for atoms, the atoms coding for molecules, molecules for cells, etc.

So, rather than all being coded at once, it occurs in stages, at each stable or semi-stable level.

It's kind of like the way language works. The sentence has its own level of rules and comprehension, as well as still being based on the lower levels of phrases, words, grammar, phonemes, letters, and strokes, and such too for its parts if they need to be attended to at their own level.

Can't really have a full-blown Programmer just sitting around as First, it never having been put together from even more fundamental parts.

I apologize for interrupting your thread — Gnomon

No problem, but, thanks, actually, for it is about the first response addressing a proposition in the OP.

6. Existence/capability has no alternative, given that nonexistence has no being as a source and that there is indeed something, and so existence of something/capability is mandatory, there not being any choice to it. It’s a given; no magic required. Still, it could operate almost as what is called ‘God’, except that it’s not a Mind.

7a. We see that the One of Totality continually transitions/transmutes, never being able to remain as anything particular, which matches its nature supposed due to no information being able to come into the Eternal in the first place that never was, for the One Fundamental Eterne has to be ungenerated and deathless if it is so. But how can there be a finite absolute One with an impossible None outside it?

7b. Or all could be relative if there are no absolutes, for Totality can’t have anything outside it. So then Totality must be relative to itself.

7c. Of course, either way, the capability remains, as necessity, with no alternative, without needing any cause for it to be. It is the Ground of Determination — G.O.D. It has no opposite and so it is not remarkable.

8. Aside from the trivial definition of free will being that without coercion the will is free to operate, and the useless definition of the harmful random will equaling ‘freedom’, the deeper notion of ‘free’ as being original and free of the brain will is of a currency never being able to be stated and cashed in on, leaving ‘determined’ to continue to be the opposite of ‘undetermined’. This stands against a ‘God’.

While eternalism can’t yet be told apart from presentism, the message from both is of a transient ‘now’, whether pre-determined or determined as it goes along. All hope then, is crushed, both for us and the Great Wheel itself having any potency. This is the great humility; all hubris is gone.

It is enough, then, that we have the benefit of experiencing and living life well, sometimes, much more so given this modern age, although still with sweat, tears, and aversive substrates of emotions that those of the future might consider to be barbaric. The early days of humankind were horrendous.

Please only attend to the OP propositions and their continuations directly.

Late Afternoon at the OK Club — Part 4 — The History of All History

Bodleian 28

Life’s spirit to the causeless was near blind.
Quoth I, “If the Beginning you could find—
The Alif—of word, phrase, and uni-verse,
Thou needs not the alphabet—All’s been mined.”

Night is falling and dinner is on the cusp. We take a break from our game of pool, obtain another drink, Houdini’s Vodka Gimlet, from Martin’s bar, and step outside for a moment, and surprisingly hear the following from the night skies:

“I’m the darkest,” says the Shadow to the Night.
“No,” says Midnight, “compared to me you’re bright.”
“You floodlights!” says Starless Space, “Stop your fight.
The darkest plight is the lack of love’s delight!”

We look at each other. She relates:

Days are the cyclic units of time’s pearls—
Beads worn round in the necklace of the months;
They distance themselves, like night echoes,
Into the rosary of the seasons.

Back inside, Ruby Yacht readies to continues her Cosmic description, naming it ‘The History of All History of Our Universe—From the First Instant Unto the Last.”

Martin braces himself for the shower of cosmology that is about to spew forth to bare the rafters of the universe’s beginning, middle, and end, and so he raises three glasses in Bodleian toasts to all and especially to Ruby:

39
My heart’s blood gleams like a melted ruby,
The wealth of mine—the gem that flows in me;
My goblet enshrines my wounded heart’s tears—
Wine is my soul and the cup my body.

87
Bring thy ruby mined, in a crystal thrust,
The drink that raises one up from the dust,
For who knows what breezes blow into gales.
This world is but a passing whirlwind’s gust.

92
Rubies from the vine’s mines are melted up,
As the moon-veil dissolved in the sun’s sup,
In pearled crystal goblets of the flow;
Oh, sparkle with life’s essence sweet—thy cup!



“The Great Wheel of our universe proceeds very quickly at first. At 1E-36 seconds, in a GUT transition in a hell of a short time, the strong force separates from the electro–weak force, the strong force eventually providing for stability and the weak force for changeability, another great balance. Inflation begins, maybe, as a slow rolling scalar field generates negative pressure, causing an exponential expansion of spacetime. The doubling is of a vacuum energy density of 1E73 tons/cm^3. Quantum fluctuations lock in nearly scale invariant 1E-5 variation in energy density. Here the enigma of the ever immortal is undone and unloosed through its portal.”

“Or at least inflation is proposed, for nothing else makes sense yet. The galaxies would seem to be the quantum fluctuations writ large across the night sky.”

She continues, we alternating, “At 1E-34 seconds, inflation quickly ends, the decay of the scalar inflaton field causing reheating. Is this the ‘let there be light moment’? No, photons don’t exist yet, but other massless vector quanta like left and right weak and B-L particles may exist. Things are not well known about this era. You and I are still but a twinkling in the cosmic eye.”

“What is here now was there in the beginning.”

“At1E-34 to 1E-8 seconds, in the quark era, there is the quark gluon plasma, and then quarks and perhaps super particles dominate matter content. At 1E-17 to 1E-15 seconds, SUSY breaking occurs when proposed super partners acquire mass with the LSP expected to have a mass of about 10 Tev. In induced gravity models, this is where mass energy first generates the induced gravity field; gravity is born, and we are grounded. “At 1E-10 seconds, there comes the electroweak transition, when the electroweak force, under the action of the Higgs mechanism, breaks symmetry. The photon is born. Standard model particles acquire mass.”

“Yeah! The photons guide us, as illumination beside us, while the mind whirls round and round, as the ear draws forth the sound, as the eye sees the light, and of the dark the fright. Fear not the proof—it’s the beauty of the truth.”

(To be continued)

It just depends how you word it. — god must be atheist

It's also whatever people do to weigh the balance either way with their guestimations. I don't think we need to sidetrack into math, set theory, probability theory, and truth tables. We have to estimate about what can't be known for sure.