• What is truth?
    Certain kinds of positive thinking in relation to physical skills can be useful even if we start using them when they are false. — Coben

    Exactly. Your belief in a God that is aiding and abetting you in your moments of struggle might give you the psychological strength to persevere where you otherwise might have given up. I consider (the belief in) God to be a kind of psychological placebo effect.
  • Hard problem of consciousness is hard because...
    As for me, consciousness - as in "that which is aware of" — javra

    Very simple. A photo-receptor cell is 'conscious' of light. A cochlear hair cells is 'conscious' of sound...etc
  • What is knowledge?
    Nothing is 'the truth'. Everything is contains a degree of truth.
    — ovdtogt

    Oooo, someone's been on the Krishnamurti again. Truth is one but many. Love is truth. Truth is a tapeworm peeking out the bum of the cat of reality.     — Bartricks

    Not at all. I am merely noting the fact that many 'truths' we adhere to are in themselves refinements of past 'truths'. I am always reminded of how Einstein continued to refine the theories of Newton and how we are still refining the theories of Darwin. Knowledge is an iterative process that slowly builds on the foundation of earlier discoveries. This process will never stop. Even Einstein had to contend with those scientists that continued his work elaborating quantum theory demonstrating that his theory fell apart at the quantum level.
  • Hard problem of consciousness is hard because...
    f you think math is independent of human experience, how would you explain how we came to be in possession of it? — Mww

    I didn't mean we don't experience math we do. Experiments with monkeys has demonstrated even they understand math. If you give 4 peanuts to one monkey and only 1 to another, that one will get pretty pissed off.

    I think what I am saying is, that it is not only us that uses math. Everything in nature seems to use it.
  • Simplicity-Complexity
    ↪fdrake
    And so can be made indistinguishably close to either side of the middle? — fdrake

    The closer you are to the 'middle' the better I suppose.
  • What is knowledge?
    They both work in unison to define your being. — Harry Hindu

    Sleep vs awake work in unison and define our being. They can also be in opposition when your activities don't allow you to get enough sleep. In this case there is an imbalance between sleep and activity where your activities are in opposition to your sleep. A problem arises when an imbalance exist in the dual nature of our being.
  • What is knowledge?
    Thinking of it as nature VS nurture is the problem. To imply that they work against each other is the problem — Harry Hindu

    They can work against each other. But they can also work in conjunction. Our male and female characteristics for example do not need to be in, but can be in opposition. As in Yin/Yang, when one increases the other must by necessity, decrease. They work in conjunction. If you do not realize the dualistic property of our nature you will never fundamentally understand how we operate. People used to believe in the Tabula Rasa theory. Our understanding of the role of genetics has improved our knowledge in that respect.
  • Hard problem of consciousness is hard because...
    ↪ovdtogt ↪Mww

    ...well, of course the old debate over whether mathematics' has an independent existence or a human invention, rears it head again here:     — 3017amen

    I didn't consider mathematics as abstract thought. I just googled the definition and used their interpretation as the basis for my argument.

    I do consider mathematics as a kind of fundamental law of nature independent from human experience.
  • The False Argument of Faith
    appealing to the "Faith Argument", that i find stupid and misleading — Gus Lamarch
    The False Argument of Faith

    I do not agree with you. Faith can have a very strong beneficial quality. As we stumble about blind and confused, faith can provide a great deal of support in life.
  • Know thyself
    Taking self-knowledge as knowledge of being, I infer the OP's view that in the West, being was felt to be external and the best way of knowing it through inquiry of externals, while in the East, being was viewed as something internal and encountered through a "grasping" of experience. A difference that makes a difference! — tim wood

    The difference between the East and the West is that in the East they had ample access to Opium and Cannabis. This encouraged introspection. We were more sober minded and concerned ourselves more with the externality's.
  • Know thyself
    “Our essence of Mind is intrinsically pure. If we knew our Mind perfectly and realised what our Self-nature truly is, all of us would be enlightened.” (Bodhisattva Sila Sutra - ca 450 BC) — waechter418

    Unfortunately our Mind is contained in a vessel of clay. 'Clay feet' etc..you get my drift. Our body relies on the Ego for self preservation. This Ego however disrupts the 'pure' functioning of the Mind.
  • Core - periphery
    issue/rise of 'peripheral' countries to become the new 'core'? — argadini

    You mean like India,China and Brazil as Europe and the USA lose their economic might?
  • Absolute truth
    There is currently a fundamental duality at the heart of existence, it cannot all be reduced to one single thing. — leo

    Again I agree with you there. I too am a believer in the duality of things. To have matter, anti-matter must also exist. For something to arise from nothing, anti-something also has to come into existence.

    People keep disagreeing about pretty much everything and yet somehow you guys don’t find it important to find things we can agree on. — leo
  • Hard problem of consciousness is hard because...
    ↪Mww


    Could one argue that abstract things have their own independent existence? — 3017amen

    adjective/ˈabstrakt/ existing in thought or as an idea but not having a physical or concrete existence.
    "abstract concepts such as love or beauty"

    In relation to 'love or beauty' the abstract thought has to relate to the observed but can apply to many observations. You can say they are loosely affiliated but not independent.
  • Other Peoples Knowledge
    100 people go to a concert and 95 of them say it was aweful, what does that tell us?

    One thing that it might tell us is that the subjective experience(s) can evolve into an objective truth.     — 3017amen

    In general we may be able to conclude that the most objective truth is that which is shared by the largest number of people? There are exceptions to that rule of course: see Copernicus.
    But as they say: the exception proves the rule.
  • What is knowledge?
    Dualistic thinking is the solution to most problems. Most (everyday/philosophical) problems are dualistic by nature.
    — ovdtogt
    Like what?     — Harry Hindu

    The most obvious one that comes to mind would be nurture vs nature argument. But I can think of many: Freedom vs responsibility, private vs public... too many to mention all. Yin and Yang, Day and night, winter and summer, high tide and low tide. cold and warm, light and dark is a common thread in all philosophical pursuits. The pendulum of time sways to and fro. Even DNA is are 2 interconnected sinuses. Up and down like a spiral staircase they wind their way to the top.
  • What is knowledge?
    ↪Athena
    What we need here is quantum physics and getting past dualistic thinking. — Athena

    Yes very funny. You know quantum theory is all about the dualistic nature of matter right?
  • What is knowledge?
    For sure I don't think like everyone else. This greatly troubled me until my later years and being okay with being different. — Athena

    What is different in how you think to other people?
  • What is knowledge?
    We can say unreasonable things about reality using words and numbers. — Harry Hindu

    It would have sufficed if you had stated: you can say unreasonable things.
  • What is knowledge?
    We can say unreasonable things about reality using words and numbers. — Harry Hindu
  • Simplicity-Complexity
    ↪Pantagruel
    The truth is always somewhere in the middle. We are all groping around in the dark with a candle to light our ways.
  • Other Peoples Knowledge
    ↪Andrew4Handel
    I think everyone should observe a respectful skepticism in regard to the opinion of others.
  • Hard problem of consciousness is hard because...
    ↪3017amen
    :rofl:
  • Simplicity-Complexity
    the thing over which you exert the highest degree of control is always going to be your own thoughts, or consciousness. — Pantagruel

    Well perhaps not you or me. Newton, Einstein......Plato, Socrates... yes.
  • Hard problem of consciousness is hard because...
    ↪3017amen
    Build a living self-replicating cell in a test tube and you will be God.
  • Opposing perspectives of Truth
    This makes no sense to me. Truth cannot be false. Belief can. Thus, belief can be falsifiable. Truth cannot. — creativesoul

    I am sorry. I should not have stated belief. I meant religion. Theory and hypotheses are also beliefs. But falsifiable beliefs.
    And what has not proven to be false can for the time being be considered true.
  • Hard problem of consciousness is hard because...
    If matter makes the clay that makes the bricks, what consiousness made the matter?

    (Or maybe the easier question is how did matter make consciousness?)     — 3017amen

    All life is conscious (to various degrees). The better question would be: How did matter make life?

    Answer that and you will be closer to understanding consciousness.
  • Simplicity-Complexity
    Thus the degree of control I have over the light is contingent on the degree of control I have over my own intentions. — Pantagruel

    If you can't control your intentions you can't control anything. What is your point? To state you need a certain degree of control over your thought process to achieve anything is like kicking an open door.
  • Simplicity-Complexity
    This you said in relation to how complex a system IS.

    How complex a given system IS, is a fixed state. It is stagnant, not dynamic.

    But you now say that a system can be complex and more complex.     — god must be atheist

    Yes that is exactly what I said. Yes, our ability to control 'stuff' is very dependent on the complexity of its properties. It is far easier to control light than it is to control how a drug behaves in your body. Our ability to control light was the one of the first achievements of the Enlightenment. It was one of the easiest problems to solve so to speak.
  • Simplicity-Complexity
    If you can't control thought, you can't logically be said to control anything else. It isn't a parallel process, it is linear. — Pantagruel

    ↪Pantagruel
    Show me where I stated you can't control your thoughts.
  • Simplicity-Complexity
    ↪Pantagruel
    Thus the degree of control I have over the light is contingent on the degree of control I have over my own intentions. — Pantagruel

    It does not require high degree of thought control to flip a light switch. It does to light a fire outside on a rainy day.
  • Why mainstream science works
    1) people often want things that make them unhappy 2) if they weren't choosing from a variety the companies would slowly choose to give them less of one, since it costs them money. — Coben

    Have you heard of the Lidl and the Aldi? They do exactly that. Limiting their choice. They are the fastest growing supermarket chain at the moment.
    And yes people often choose things that make them unhappy. It is called drugs. They give a temporary high and a long lasting low. And that happens to be most of the things people buy.
  • Why mainstream science works
    ↪Coben
    Well I tried and failed. I was perhaps on an errant's quest.
  • Simplicity-Complexity
    Scientists and engineers are also conscious, so the same question applies to them. If the scientist is able to create a theory that facilitates external control of some thing, a fortiori the scientist must be controlling his or her thoughts. — Pantagruel

    They are absolutely controlling their thoughts. But that is not easy. That is hard. That is why you have to be pretty clever to become a scientist of engineer. It is all about thought control.

    By controlling their thought 'processes' they have discovered how to control light. And now any idiot can control light.
  • Why mainstream science works
    I see all lives where the individuals have any choice at all as constant trial and error. They may not deal with the data the way we would wish or consider rational and they may not — Coben

    Trial and error is exactly what people get with choice and is exactly what people don't want but what is forced on them. Our ability to choose has never been more abundant and lies at the root of much misery. We hate uncertainty, we hate experimentation. Therein lies the power of advertising.

    Scientists and engineers do trial and error under proscribed circumstances and thereby advance our knowledge. It is not something we (mere mortals) do naturally. We prefer routine and the familiar.
  • Opposing perspectives of Truth
    What's the difference between truth and belief? — creativesoul

    Truth is falsifiable, belief is not.
  • The Art of Living: not just for Stoics
    Hierocles argued that there was an ethical need for a "contraction of circles", to reduce the distance between the circles as much as possible and therefore increase our familiarization with all of mankind — Wiki

    I googled it.
    The idea of oikeiosis is, roughly, that one should work to collapse distinctions between one's family members, one's larger circle of friends, the larger circle of fellow Vermonters/New Englanders, the larger circle of US Americans, the larger circle of Westerners, the larger circle of the world, and ultimately, the largest circle of all intelligent beings.

    Collapse is used in the context of 'discriminate'. Don't look for the differences between the various cultures but for the similarities will have a positive impact on your outlook in life.
  • Why mainstream science works
    I see all lives where the individuals have any choice at all as constant trial and error. They may not deal with the data the way we would wish or consider rational and they may not — Coben

    In today's supermarkets people are overloaded with choice because the merchant believes that is what the consumer wants. Apparently research has shown this only make people unhappy. People don't like superfluous choice and end up going for the same item over and over again ignoring all other choices. Trial and error is something we want to avoid psychologically. Thankfully we have advertising that makes the choice for us.
  • Simplicity-Complexity
    Since consciousness is doing the external controlling, wouldn't consciousness itself first have to be controlled to do the external controlling? — Pantagruel

    Yes absolutely. That is what scientists and engineers are able to do. We (mere mortals) just profit off the fruits of their labor.
  • Why mainstream science works
    We are all experimenting all the time — Coben

    Most people are following a 'comfortable' routine most of their lives. They observe rules and regulations and football on tv. Trial and error doesn't figure high on that list.
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