Imagine thinking voting will solve this. For who? Joe Biden? That piece of shit has done more to entrench black poverty in the US than Trump could ever dream of. — StreetlightX

Biden presents as the person that can do that not just because of his ability to win the African American vote. But there is a sense that he can win over some of those white, working-class voters given his Delaware-Pennsylvania roots. So Biden sort of meets the two prongs of pragmatism. One is, can we trust him to keep our civil rights protections in place? And is he electable. And on both scores, he did better than any of the other candidates that entered the Democratic primary this cycle. — https://www.npr.org/2020/03/10/813922126/why-joe-biden-is-the-pragmatic-choice-for-black-voters

But you know better than black voters what their interest are and how they should approach the current situation. It's quite telling how a protest over racism and police brutality is turned into ranting on the evils of capitalism.

Antjuan Seawright, starting at 0:25, explains why violence is not the right strategy, and how peaceful responses in the past to injustice led to changes.

This is was also a step in the right direction where the police chief tells officers to resign who didn't have a problem with kneeling on someone's neck for nine minutes.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/500022-tennessee-police-chief-tells-officers-who-dont-have-an-issue-with-george?fbclid=IwAR3KVB5jdTzgVPWcKehFYNVcDIIHHSIsOegVB5de10NKQ8cS-xfATQFCj4o

That's a good point.

It is a big deal. See the penalties. — Outlander

Yeah:

The offense is punishable by a range of imprisonment up to a life term, or the death penalty, depending upon the circumstances of the crime, and the resulting injury, if an

Problem is you need the Justice System to enforce it. I'll agree with Street about one thing in this thread. The officer should be charged with 2nd degree murder. And the other three are accessories.

Here's one idea for reform. A national registry for bad cops so they don't get rehired.

I meant specifically; why do you think that 2nd amendment gun nuts aren't out protesting with their guns already, when they've seen journalists being fired on, peaceful protesters being assaulted, people being fired on while standing in the doorway to their own private property? — fdrake

It's not their fight, and they tend to be more pro-police and military. It's the elected officials they have a beef with. In particular, Democrats.

Also some of them are full of shit.

What do you think the answer is? — fdrake

Not a shootout and not one group of protesters fighting another angry group.

The police departments need to be reformed. People need to vote for candidates who make that a priority.

But they're not in the streets, I wonder why? — fdrake

Good question but best if they stay home.

Trump does need to shut the fuck up and not iinflame matters further. Let someone more responsible in his administration talk when necessary. Revoke his Twitter account.

I might not have a say, but he does:

What's your ad-hominem attack on my character? — Echarmion

There's a lot of that in this thread for a philosophy forum.

Ilhan Omar on how those destroying minority businesses are not part of the protest or interested in justice.

https://www.facebook.com/IlhanMN/videos/254086762346145/

Anyone who is favor of destroying their businesses, right or left, fuck you.

and collapsing state — unenlightened

Sorry to disappoint you, but the state won't collapse.

Well, hands aren't exactly "external" reality are they? Hands are too me to be proof of anything other than me, no? — TheMadFool

Well, you might say your body is part of external reality. That you have a body moving about in the world proves there is a world. Some people want to argue the subjectivity/objectivity divide is false. It's all objective. Problem is it can go the other way and be all subjective.

So how do we know which one it is?

Black people need to arm themselves with the most powerful weapons legally available and when they see a cop trying to murder one of their community, make a citizen's execution arrest — Baden

Fair enough, but the Tulsa riot started over what the white people saw as a black uprising because of a shootout when armed black folk came to protect a black man arrested from a lynching. Which was good, until shots were fired.

Just saying it's dicey. Maybe it would work today. It's better if the city arms them.

This is the right way:



Places were police join the peaceful protesters, listen to what they have to say, instead of spoiling for a fight.

Honestly, if Chauvin gets off then I'd join in some of the riots. Not against private businesses though. — BitconnectCarlos

Thing is that a jury gets to decide that unless they convince him to plead guilty for the good of the country. So you never know.

Should we riot over a jury decision? It's one thing not to prosecute cops, but it's another when they have their day in court. As long as the prosecution and judge do their jobs.

A jury decision is a citizenry thing. It's different if a judge gives the cop a BS light sentence.

Honestly, drive by shootings are more common. Let the Black Panthers deal with that. — frank

Yeah, maybe let black people police their communities so at least you remove the racial factor. It needs to be coordinated and supported by the city. Give them the resources they need.

Yep. How much of it comes from the tone set by their leaders? — frank

You mean like the being tough on crime or the war on drugs? Yeah, that's an issue. Problem is then with he voters liking that sort of thing. At least the drug war is losing some steam.

t I think a citizen force or militia like the Black Panther Party might be a good idea to keep a watchful eye on the interactions between the state and their community. — NOS4A2

Agreed with this, but sanctioned by the local government.

So I am going to throw all my toys out of the pram, and all your toys out of your pram, and every other bugger's toys out of their prams, until everyone altogether decides that this will not pass. This is war. Don't act surprised when Poland gets invaded. — unenlightened

Everyone might end up on deciding they don't want you throwing their toys out the pram. It's a good way to create a backlash.

The cop was just a stupid bully. He didnt mean to kill Floyd. — frank

And being a cop is attractive to bullies. They need to be screened out of the hiring process. So does anyone with ties to racist groups.

Because of ONE man who KNEW very well what he was doing and what it would cause. White supremacists are probably laughing their ass off and high fiving eachother right now while minorities continue to march around and get arrested instead of furthering their education and becoming that cop.. that politician.. that professor.. that prosecutor.. whatever position it is that inequality resides in. — Outlander

Are you suggesting Derek Chauvin was maybe part of a plot to start off a race war? I have heard that some of the rioters are also alt-right, looking to delegitimize the protests.

Sounds like a plot from the Watchmen tv show that came out in the fall.

The latter - happening in this thread and elsewhere in the media - is infinitely worse than the former. — StreetlightX

Infinitely worse than destroying things that have nothing to do with the police? What kind of moral argument is that? Do you not see just how extreme your position is?

China's economic system is capitalist now. And they have a large middle class because they switched.

about the actual issues. — StreetlightX

Capitaliism?

Hell no. — NOS4A2

It's absurd that the socialists in this thread thinks there's a chance in hell of that.

I can sympathize with the anger, but violence will will lead to the same outcome: conquest and coercion of one group over another. — NOS4A2

That's often what happens. And you run the risk of some general taking over and becoming dictator.

In this case, an actual revolution has the cops start using real ammunition with the military enforcing martial law. I don't care how many guns Americans own, it won't be enough against the military. Plus the fact that the group with the most guns isn't on the left.

That and most of us don't want a bloody revolution. We don't want to see cities bombed, people shot, and food supplies being disrupted. Nor do we want a communist system replacing the current one. That's a fantasy.

Like the Boston tea party - pointless destruction by opponents of the rule of law. — unenlightened

Arguably, it was. And for all the great principles the US espoused as part of that revolution, America's history is more violent than Canada's. Violence begets more violence, and even when you win, it sets more precedence for violent solutions in the future.

You can justify violence, destruction of property, — NOS4A2

More than that, in this thread anyway. People dying and starving to overturn the system. And doing whatever you want since the social contract is voided.

Hopefully, this is a very minority opinion. I don't believe most protesters support it. They just want to see police held accountable, so they stop murdering people.

NOS, by burning down a TGI Fridays you're fighting capitalism which in turn helps dismantle systemic racism. It's a nuanced argument - — BitconnectCarlos

It is. And apparently if you don't understand that nuance, then you're supporting police violence.

Very nuanced indeed. Also extremist rhetoric.

Tay Anderson wants the white rioters to stop.

Tay Anderson wanted Friday's protest against police brutality in Denver to be peaceful.

"We asked people throughout the day, please do not deface property, please do not destroy stuff, because we're not asking you to do that," Anderson, a Denver school board director and activist, told BuzzFeed News.

https://www.newsbreak.com/news/0PCUzvHy/black-protesters-who-want-to-demonstrate-peacefully-are-calling-out-white-people-who-instigate-violence]

o it's exactly how you post. — StreetlightX

And you can't tolerate dissent.

But okay, if that is a poor arguing technique on my own, I should work on it. However, fuck you for accusing me of bad faith. I argue what I think, right or wrong.

You're an extremist.

It does with you. You never follow up your objections. you simply throw out new ones if the last one didn't work. It's rubbish. — StreetlightX

That's bullshit. You just don't like people who disagree with you.

If you were genuinely interested and not just throwing out bad faith objections, maybe you could educate yourself even minimally. — StreetlightX

You can't help yourself, can you? Disagreement doesn't mean bad faith. Unless you're an extremist.

But thanks for the videos, I haven't watched them yet.

Or millions currently out of work in the U.S. — 180 Proof

The pandemic is the fault of the greedy rich? What was the unemployment rate before Covid in the US?

Tell that the billions who live on less the $2 USD per day. — 180 Proof

They will do better as they have more access to jobs and global markets. The trend in global poverty is going down. There's also a lot of factors at play across the globe. Sometimes those have been failed communist states or bloody civil wars where the winner installs their own greedy regime.

@StreetlightX Yes, society can get much more extreme.

They do. The problem is that it's expanding upwards, not downwards. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. — Michael

That is a problem, but the standard of living also goes up across the board over time. Capitalism's excesses need to be corrected for.

So why not more progressive taxation and larger inheritance taxes with better safety nets? No reason to throw out the baby that's raised the standard of living an incredible amount over the past several centuries for a system that has failed to prove itself.