“Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate.” - Jung.

I'm a fan of meditation for sure, but no hypnosis, nor placebos. I think that it is important to find the true causes of our symptoms, as it were, and those sorts of things steal credit for things they aren't responsible for.

Well... you're the self-proclaimed bullshitter... out of love though...

He so loved the world that he deceived them all for their own good...

Justness.

I know that you keep repeating that like a mantra, but you're just using elevating emotive words in order to emotionally manipulate yourself and others... but you're using them wrong. Narcissism is what is concerned with some ideal love.

I'm recently recovering from being woven in a narcissists's web, so I probably empathize with you here, but I think self "love" is the wrong wording. Self esteem isn't the same as love, at least how I've defined here (see the OP again.) — Heister Eggcart

I'm not... I'm recovering more from being a narcissist. So one lies out of a high self-esteem then...?

I dunno about that. Lying might be a problem in itself, but I'm saying that they might be necessary for the good. — Heister Eggcart

Then that makes lying good...

What about TimeLine's? I answered that if you didn't read my reply to her. — Heister Eggcart

I didn't, you'll have to point it out.

do think that the situation that I refer to in the OP and later on here is indeed pretty rare, and would be an outlying, moral predicament. I think Wosret has been worried about me suggesting that "lying honestly", if possible, should be used at all often, which is not what I'm saying. I'd say that lying out of love would essentially be a last resort, a kind of necessary evil, maybe. — Heister Eggcart

No, that isn't at all my concern... it's that lying to oneself makes one an idiot... lying to others makes them idiots... and further, that people that believe absurdities, will commit atrocities.

I mean... "honest lying" is obvious double speak... and "necessary" means that it's impossible that it couldn't happen. These are just clear misuses of words to maintain absurd beliefs... it's idiocy.

Well, hold on. I'm not judging who's a liar and who's not, but whether a lie can pair itself with honesty and love. — Heister Eggcart

It can with self honesty, and self love... but it's to infantilize, and damage anyone else. It's possible to not suffer the physical and mental draw backs... to turn one's back on the holy spirit, as they say, but those are called narcissistic psychopaths.

No idea what you're trying to say here. Please reword and clarify. — Heister Eggcart

Lies are what brought them to your door. You further cause, you escalate the problem with more lying.

The SS example was just that, an example. In principle I can plug in different people with a different setting and the moral paradigm would remain the same, I think. — Heister Eggcart

I know that it was just an example, and super hyperbolic... as I said. You could come up with different examples, but they'd be less and less persuasive the closer they got to reality.

You'll never understand through observation anything that isn't just superficial... not from the outside, gotta be inside to get insight.

Gives relatable form to the chaos of your experiences. Brings to the surface meaning that already resides in the understanding. A prompting to see what is already on some level known.

Wittgenstein was attempting to kill philosophy wasn't he? Trying to show that you won't find meaning in the texts, in the speech, but in living... so get out there and live, and then maybe stuff will start falling into place of its own accord.

We definitely need education, maps, systems in order to organize and share our experiences, but it's all empty yapping without the living it too. That's a pretty old idea really, and I think can be interpreted as all substantial meaning, all content is phronetic, and all that can really be criticized, understood, or apprehended besides this is form, grammar, consistency, logical validity.

As for some understandings don't require interpretation... well, I think that anything that has fallen off of anything and hurt itself, understands gravity without any need of interpretation.

"Liar" isn't an identity...

I did also qualify with "like", I'll add, as in, not exactly, the words don't really matter to me... that's kind of the whole point...

Both "agreement" and "pact" although not "contract" are synonyms of convention. The second definition in the list definitions that I look up of "convention" uses the word "agreement"...

Buddha makes this clear and unambiguous distinction between convention, and actually knowing stuff, which takes actual practice, living and personal experience.

You can go ahead thinking they're totes the same, but you'll just be wrong...

Well, words mean whatever people want, and how they use them then I guess.

Convention is just like agreement in like a contractual, abstract sense, like the spelling of a word, which leaves the individual lived experience that the meaning that fills up those conventional containers come from out of it... Its like the thing I'm always going on about.

To use my Jesus bread bearer example there, and knowing them by their deeds, people can say anything, they can't do anything. This is why the person of christ, his life and deeds is what is significant, and can't simply be repeated by saying the same things. That isn't how meaning works.

I didn't oversell, or undersell convention, but simply made a distinction, and suggested that the mistake is easy to make, because the two things are similar, but convention reduces more to just agreement in general, and not the more particular agreement that I took him to mean.

(edit) Maybe I mean that convention is more particular, and less general than "forms of live", at least in the way I'd prefer to interpret it, and would be more in agreement with the thing I just said... they're different in any case is all, lol.

I might checks him out. Not super acquainted with Wittgenstein, which is why I rarely mention him. I read the philosopher investigations on the way out west on the train life five years ago.

To flip him off some though... this is why he was so pissed off and/or deeply depressed all of the time too... he was the specialist of snowflakes... and just couldn't relate.

Well, no one understood Wittgenstein in Wittgenstein's opinion...

What grounds meaning in his (quite agreeable view) is not convention (which is easy to think), but "forms of life" far more generally, like what is universal to the human condition, and meaning is only transferable, or made up of not only grammar, but subjective judgment which have to match, which come from living, and experience. So that, language is as universal as the form of life in which the meaning arises from. This is why a lion wielding all of the bestest grammar, would still be unintelligible.

Something like that, I figure.

Those lyrics were ironically faked... hopefully this one is better

These songs are not like meant to be attacks on anyone in particular, rather than all of humanity, myself most included...

Hell is the place you fall into inside your own self, when you're trapped in the darkness of deception, and delusion. Terror is what you feel when the light finds you where you believe that you're hidden, and the deeper you place yourself, or you're placed by others, the more numb, senseless, stiffer, more mechanical, and decayed you become -- your senses fail, the stress builds, and the less you're even physically capable of handling the terror of the true, the beautiful, and the real.

One's heart becomes bound up, anxious, strangled, and less and less able to even handle the truth. It's no small task to climb your way out... the longer your stay, the deeper the pit, the less able your heart becomes to even handle the truth of what you've really become. What you've really done.

Liars aren't honest ever, regardless of what good intentions, and better future they're selling their souls for.

The SS (again, a ridiculous example that will never happen to you ever, ever, ever, and just is a wedge rationalization for continuing sociopathic behavior) didn't show up to anyone's house thinking themselves to be evil, and there to kill the righteous innocence. It was lies, bullying, indoctrination, propaganda, and other forms of manipulation that brought them to your door to do the "righteous thing", which every act they viscerally knew was wrong, but also had lots of justifications and rationalizations, and the best of intentions.

Nazis aren't going to come to your doors, and most strangers don't have much incentive to believe you anyway, let along SS officers... no this is just a rhetorical ploy, and wedge in order to rationalize all of the puppeteering, and manipulation of loved ones and friends, the ones the most susceptible, and at risk of falling prey to you.

Say a dude's going to go murder a bunch of people, but you lying to him can keep him from doing that. Isn't that doing what is loving for both the almost-murderer and those he's saving from not being murdered? — Heister Eggcart

No one sees your justifications or rationalization, they just see your actions.
You'll never actually encounter such a situation, be realistic, this is just a wedge technique, in order to justify lying in less and less extreme situations.
You can't protect anyone, you can only make them strong. This is again, to infantilize.
Lying tells people to not trust their senses, but to trust you instead, and strips them of their autonomy, and is most effective on people that make the mistake of daring to trust and love you in the first place, making themselves susceptible to your puppeteering them. You make them look to their conceptualizing for the truth rather than their senses, binding up their body, making them ignore parts of themselves in order to maintain the deception. Lies destroy lives. This isn't about purity, or maintaining a pristine moral character or some such, it's about not physically and mentally crippling people with your deceptions, which can last not only through their lives, but through generations.

If you want to stop the murderers, then attempt to stop them by actually doing something that risks yourself, and not just everyone else. That would be more loving, I'd think.

I know that everyone thinks that lies have no consequences, but understand that they have dire consequences.

The amount of effort that one puts into enlightenment creates momentum, and this momentum is more than enough to sustain life. Clinically depressed people have little motivation, and in most cases they can put on a happy face. — Dwit

Should check out antonio damasio. Hes pretty good, and argues that intentionality, emotion, motivation goes all the way down through life. We do need to attain the void in order to be truly rational, but its a process of emptying. Forgetting. Deletion. Thinking is taking thing apart, but most importantly putting them back together again. Forgetting it and getting on with life. Through signfication, stress, training, and attention youre prompted to take thing apart. Find out how they work, view them in isolation, with controlled relations... but kept too long, and they decay... treasured too deeply, and everything is seen in relation to them, and they become the nexus through which all things are understood and related to.

Everything begins and ends in the immeasurable, qualitative, but in the middle there, they too need to be forgotten.

There is something to say about passion overcoming us, and preventing us from thinking, but passion is also what prompts thinking.

"This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.” The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. ..."

Dont forget who the true, and only loaf ward was, and how dat loaf became a spiritual symbol, and was passed on to you through his flesh and blood. A ransom for all spiritual debts, leaving only to render on to caeser what is caeser's.

I think that it was indeed a sacrifice, and frees and redeems the world. Of course it brings division... 99.99999% of the time that someone becomes free, they decide that no one else can handle it, and horde all that precious loaf... but a few try to give it up... its just as difficult to receive as it is to part with.

Terrorism is the basilisk. It renders you frozen, deeply inhibited, with restricted movement and speech. Its to challenge your freedom with extreme retribution and consequence.

It cant be reasoned with, or easily fought, and has elements of randomness, and unpredictability. Making you afraid to gather in groups where one is normally safest. Afraid to speak out against injustice, which is the cornerstone of civilization, and afraid to act and move freely in the world without the appearance of submission.

Its to be treated as a natural disaster. To be reasonably fortified against, and then shrugged off. Nor virgins need to be thrown into vulcanos... as reasoning and bargaining doesnt work on the unreasonable.

Da buddha said something like once youve figured out the right thing to do, dont think about the consequences, or the difficulties involved.

Lying is attacking someones intuition, and infantilizing them. Deciding what is or isnt good for them, and what sorts of information they can and cannot handle. Its never really about love or kindness anyway. Its about not wanting to be the bearer of bad news, or having them dislike us for not having the opinions, or saying the things that they prefer.

The retort i get the most (including from my daddoo just last night) is the ol' "do i look fat in this?" question. My response to that is two fold. Firstly the question is deeply misunderstood, and is just asking if you still think theyre beautiful, and ideally the most beautiful, which is a question of taste, evaluation commitment and not about facts. Secondly the two traits women most go on about wanting in their men is honesty and confidence.

Thinking that such a question requires a lie is quite disheartening, and says far more about the men than women to me. There is a right answer, and it isnt that theyre actually ugly or lie... neither of which is what women want... but an answer that is in the affirmative, and meant. Thats the ideal, and if you cant do that, then you should question your maturity and level of commitment... not their sanity or maturity.

Fuck the consequences. Always tell the truth, and if the truth is wrong then fucking change yourself until its right.

Pedantry is to pick on details and ignore the whole picture type deal. Nothing is perfect, everything has flaws. If we're going to draw attention to the flaws, hopefully its with the intention of improving the whole. To minimize the errors present in the thing, or to demonstrate that some alternative does the same thing at least as well with less flaws or without the same flaws which is whats relevant in this context or whatever.

Just showing that something isnt perfect, or throwing the baby out with the bathwater usually doesnt go well... unless you hate babies... you dont hate babies do you?

Just like the word "sin" comes from archery, and means to miss the mark. Similarly both seem to be about aiming.

I killed my parents, and replaced them both. The monkey king is goku, but hes one of many many representations of the ideal man. Spiritual mother likewise is utena, the ideal woman.

Besides art though, im not massively immersed in the eastern tradition, so i tend to use a lot of protestant christian vocabulary as i was raised and am immersed in that tradition. I also fall back on some buddhist and yogic tradition as i live that tradition most.

The goal though, which has been my goal since i was about seventeen is to surpass humanity, and become the world. Thats more like plan b though, ill try being normal first... only if i fail that.

There is a tension between specialization and adaptability. Specialization is an inevitable death sentence. As the specialist becomes more and more dependent on their environment and circumstances, which they then must work steadily to maintain. Muscle memory, form and function. If one does the same thing over and over again at the same tempo, same time of day, same temperature and all that the better and better and better theyll get at it, but the less and less theyll be able to deal with change. This is why when we get all comfy, we start to rationalize and justify the way things and our lives are. Only the uncomfortable want change.

Aristotle and the buddha may seem like theyre saying similar things, but theyre proponents of very different things.