Apparently some people do. It's an antirealist position; the p doesn't exist until it's proposed, — InPitzotl

On the contrary, it would be unrealistic to assume that there can exist English sentences that nobody speaking any English has ever composed or crafted... A realist view of the world does not imply that ideas nobody ever thought of exist already in some Platonic realm, waiting to be discovered.

Likewise, you aversion towards classic moral categories such as good and evil is probably due to some mistake in your education, or perhaps some brain deficiency.

Okay so you interpret Kp as "It is believed that p is true" or "It is known that p is true". For me it only means: "p is known", i.e. some people know about proposition p.

Keep your primitive notions of good and evil if they help you sleep at night. — Yohan

"Primitive" in your sentence codes for "evil", right?

You know in some cultures people are stoned to death for adultery. — Yohan

And what? That's evil?

As I said, ignore evil at your peril.

If you think humans are any different, its probably because you are holding onto archaic religious concepts of a soul. — Yohan

So you would like to be treated like an animal?

How do you read "Kp"?

Indeed, and I am talking about knowing that there is a false proposition. What are you talking about?

This proposition, you claim, is known. Ok, let's put it down in words: I know the earth is flat. — TheMadFool

You know the proposition "the earth is flat". Otherwise you couldn't talk about it...

What are you sorry about, honey-bunny?

Evil exists. We ignore it at our peril.

Argument made already.

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/603520

You are a child, whether you are aware of it or not. You lack maturity. And you keep bitching petulantly about others. Stop bitching and start listening.

But why have so many Republicans refused to take their shots? Some, of course, have bought into the wild claims about side effects and sinister conspiracies that circulate on social media. But they’re probably a small minority.
Almost surely, mainstream right-wing media outlets, especially Fox News, have played a much bigger role. These outlets generally steer away from clearly falsifiable assertions — they have to worry about lawsuits. But they nonetheless want to do all they can to undermine the Biden administration, so they have done their best to raise doubts about the vaccines’ safety and effectiveness.

The effect has been to encourage many Republicans to think of getting vaccinated as an imposition, a cost they’re being asked to bear rather than a benefit they’re being offered — and, of course, something they’re primed to oppose precisely because it’s something Democrats want to see happen. Medical experts may say that going unvaccinated greatly increases your risk of getting seriously ill or dying, but hey, what do they know?

— Krugman, NY TIMES — Xtrix

Good piece. The repukes have managed to politicize a medical issue into yet another identity crisis. So now any wako who thinks of himself as republican opposes vaccination, for fear of losing his republican soul... Criminal, really.

Name one person who has no decency. — Yohan

Trump?

Did you manage to understand that Fitch can be extended to false propositions, or not yet?

I am not in the habit of talking to people who don't pay attention, sorry.

For those who confuse gentlemen with pacifists:

it doesn't look like we can know a falsehood. — TheMadFool

Indeed, it doesn't look like you can.

It's not about sentences. It's about propositions. And propositions are proposed.

It is an extraordinarily outlandish view that everything is known. — TonesInDeepFreeze

Everything is not known. But every existing proposition has been proposed by someone or another, by definition of what a proposition is. Thus every proposition in existence will be known at least by he or she who originally made the proposition.

A proposition is a form of knowledge. And there can be no such thing as unknown knowledge, even though there's plenty we don't know.

What we don't know is not neatly set in the form of propositions yet. This work still has to be done.

Contrarian to what, exactly?

No one believes that as a generalization for all q. — TonesInDeepFreeze

I do believe that.

Well, maybe you'll get it one day, if you decide to apply your mind to it.

¬p can be stated as "p is false".

q = ¬p

q→Kq

therefore

¬p→K¬p = all false propositions are known propositions.

This is elementary, really. Reason for which I did not write it down, not wanting to insult people's intelligence. @InPitzotl got it immediately. So make an effort, calm your contrarian demons and for once, TRY and understand these ultra basic logical steps above.

Suppose p is a sentence that is an unknown truth; that is, the sentence p is true, but it is not known that p is true. — Wikipedia

That seems a different case than that of an unknown proposition: a known proposition whose truth value is yet unknown. There are many many examples of this kind of proposition.

Thus proving that might makes right. — baker

Some people have no decency and they don't deserve to be treated decently. They are just assholes.

It's slightly more precise to say "lexical", since that describes what the sorted function does. — InPitzotl

So it's computer language. That's why is sounds odd in regular English.

I'm not bound by your theories that proposing requires a proposer, so I don't have to name one — InPitzotl

Okay so you're not quite sure whether it's true or not that "QMCVNBOO" is lexically prior to "SHXCBJYN" now?

As formulated, the statement is a bit unclear because "lexical" means "relating to words or the vocabulary of a language as distinguished from its grammar and construction". Nothing to see with indexing nonsensical strings of uppercased letters...

Assuming you mean something like "comes in alphabetic order before", then the statement could be interpreted as a true proposition.

I'm not in any realistic sense the one who proposed proposition 6. I — InPitzotl

So who is doing the proposing then?

We've been through this. A proposition needs to be proposed as a true representation. Otherwise it is at best a sentence. You do all the proposing, your computer none. Your computer is merely your sockpuppet. Enough with this nonsense already.

On October 1, 2021, I caused a computer to generate statements that are accurate representations of states of affairs. The computer generated those statements at 10:03:44pm on that day. — InPitzotl

That you interpret as such. I don't.

Because a proposition is a statement that is proposed as a fair or accurate representation of some state of affairs. If your computer doesn't understand that, at best it is writing a sentence, at worse it is spraying black dots on a screen, which you interpret as a proposition.

Then how can it make a proposition?

Your computer knows it...

Exactly.


.

Watch me.

¬p→K¬p

To get a more complete view of the problem.

Fitch's paradox is about true propositions. — TheMadFool

I know. I'm extending it to false propositions as well. Sue me.

It'd be like unknown knowledge....