There are games of coordination (the sort of thing that Lewis takes as the basis of convention) and games of competition, and a game can be purely one or the other or mixed, as in the prisoner's dilemma. — Srap Tasmaner
I think most of the boys treat the game as mixed, both coordination and competition. What's curious is that the one who treats the game as pure competition changes the game for everyone. — Srap Tasmaner
I wonder too if, in those games of tag I played as a kid, we didn't treat them as mixed rather than purely competitive, at least by avoiding the singling-out behavior in my example. I think my friends and I would have disapproved of someone going after the slowest kid in class every time he was "it". — Srap Tasmaner
So it is with the RPI simulation of a social network's marketplace of ideas -- a small group that never adjusts gets its way.
I also found it suggestive that the specific mechanism in this case was one minority, not to put too fine a point on it, singling out a more vulnerable minority. The others respond by watching from the sidelines or trying to coach or coax the one changing the game to quit it. — Srap Tasmaner
It feels like there's a political analogy here -- something about how democratic or even market practices can fail to produce the expected or desired social result.. — Srap Tasmaner
It never seemed like a game to me; blood sport, yes.I know that studying philosophy is no game even though it might seem so... — Abeills
Neural atypicality seems to be an advantage.Any tips about comprehending concepts and playing with them would help me! — Abeills
I don't understand what you mean when you say mind is only a verbal construct. — Metaphysician Undercover
We aren't motivated when things are how we'd like it to be. We are content. — Harry Hindu
How would "natural" be included in the explanation when "socially learned verbal constructs" usually falls under social and not instinctual, unless "natural" is used in a different way than a synonym for strict biologically determined behavior. — schopenhauer1
If goals then are social constructs, is essentially everything we hold dear as humans in terms of our "supposed" desires, wants, hopes, motivations, etc. just a socially taught mechanism that has simply been one useful way for our species to survive?...
In other words, is the social construct just an exaptation- something that just so happened to arise but was not the reason for our unique evolution, or was it actually an adaptation- something that was specifically selected for? — schopenhauer1
Is a goal or imagination a phenomenon in one's mind or head which can be experienced and perceived? If so, by what is it experienced and perceived? What and where is one's mind (it's intuitively obvious that heads can be perceived, but can minds be perceived)? — Galuchat
I believe you have met a logical roadblock here. I don't think that a mind can be perceived... — Metaphysician Undercover
A goal may be identified, it may be analyzed, properties may be attributed to it, etc., just like any physical object. The difference is that the goal is an object understood to exist only in the mind, while a physical object is understood to exist outside the mind. — Metaphysician Undercover
OK, so all you have done here is distinguished between two types of objects, objects which are entities and objects which are goals. You claim that only entities can be observed, thus restricting the use and meaning of "observe". — Metaphysician Undercover
Also. it appears like you want to restrict the use of "experience", such that one experiences one's goals, but does not experience entities. Unless you adopt some dualist premises, I do not believe that such restrictions can be justified. — Metaphysician Undercover
What is observed is goal behaviour. And if we associate this behaviour with a premise, we can deduce that the person has a goal. But making the logical conclusion that the person has a goal is not the same thing as observing that the person has a goal. The goal is not observed. According to your restrictions, observations are of entities, not of goals. So no matter how well you observe the goal behaviour, you are not observing the goal (which can only be experienced according to your restrictions). Nor have you observed that the person has a goal, you have deduced this. — Metaphysician Undercover
2)I think that a person's own goals may be apprehended with one's own mind, and the person may observe and follow one's own goals. — Metaphysician Undercover
...all i mean by imagined is that it is something in one's head that is not in the world. — unenlightened
Are goals "real" in that they are a natural phenomena that are a part of certain animal biological/psychological make-up, or a nominal label for a very pervasive social convention/habit? — schopenhauer1
Motivation is driven by your emotions, both being of the same root, and both referencing what moves you, both physically and emotionally. — Hanover
A plan is also an imagined act... — unenlightened
It would be odd to say that I experience the goal, if the goal is to experience a cup of tea... — unenlightened
The problem, of course, is that calling something back into presence is not the only reason to 'call' — creativesoul
I think it is necessary to distinguish between intentions, or goals, and motivation which is the ambition that aids in successfully achieving ones goals. — Metaphysician Undercover
I don't see how a goal, or intention, could be observed by another...I think that we can only really observe our own goals, and this is an internal observation. — Metaphysician Undercover
Also, we can observe the actions of others, and using some premises, we can make some logical conclusion concerning the person's goal, but again this is not the same as observing the goal. — Metaphysician Undercover
1) Are goals "real" in that they are a natural phenomena that are a part of certain animal biological/psychological make-up, or a nominal label for a very pervasive social convention/habit? — schopenhauer1
2) Do the origins of goal-directed behavior come from evolutionary forces of biology/psychology or are they social conventions that ride on top of some more basic component? Related, If animals have goals are they different than human-directed goals? — schopenhauer1
3) If goals are more on the nominal side of the spectrum, what does that mean in terms of ethical implications? If ethics aims at goals, and goals are nominal, does this invalidate certain ethical standards that are goal-directed? — schopenhauer1
4) Are some goals better than others? If so, how do justify a weighting to the goals such that one takes priority over the other? Are goals related to survival self-evident, for example? If goals of survival are superior than other goals, does this have implications for ethics? For example, can one say that since there is a de facto goal of not being hungry, humans must do X action to accomplish not going hungry? — schopenhauer1
What is motivation? — Gotterdammerung
When you say that you suspect that few extroverts would be members of a philosophy forum, what makes you say this? Is it your idea of extroversion that makes you say it? Is it something about the nature of philosophy? — WISDOMfromPO-MO
Amongst other things, a meaningful correlation requires spatiotemporal distinction. I find no reason to think/believe that an unborn child has that capability. — creativesoul
I would just point out that the aforementioned correlations are drawn by observers other than the unborn child. — creativesoul
Language acquisition occurs between 12 and 36 months, but language development continues into middle childhood (11 years). — Galuchat
Ok. Relevance? — creativesoul
The position I'm putting forth doesn't rest it's laurels upon anything other than the fact that we all adopt(almost entirely) our initial worldview, and there is no ability to doubt the truthfulness of neither the teacher nor the teaching... — creativesoul
And if by "the mechanics of thought/belief" you are referring to the development of an individual's thought/belief over time, in addition to language development, social and moral development need to be addressed. That being the case, I don't think it's possible to provide a coherent cross-cultural model of thought/belief development. — Galuchat
Why would you say that? I'm curious. — creativesoul
To be clear, what I'm calling thought/belief is any and all mental correlations drawn between 'objects' of physiological sensory perception and/or the agent's own state of mind. At conception there are none present. We are born having drawn very few - if any - of the aforementioned correlations... — creativesoul
It is via language acquisition that we learn what... — creativesoul
This is only to say that it is via language acquisition that we initially learn how to talk about ourselves and/or others, and thus by virtue of learning how to situate ourselves in the world by coming to terms with it and ourselves, we adopt - almost entirely - our initial worldview. This must be the case, for during this time we do not have what it takes to doubt what we're being taught. — creativesoul
It appears like either you didn't understand what you were saying (mistaken), or you were actively trying to deceive. — Metaphysician Undercover
It's funny to hear you bringing up semi consciousness again as if it is a term with any relevance here. But maybe you can explain what you mean in neuro terms rather than as some handwaving metaphor, like a volume button being turned down low or something. — Apokrisis
I think the unconscious is an unknown known, and one neurologist's woo is as flakey as his brother's. — unenlightened
Why be such a dick? — Apokrisis
PMed. — Apokrisis
I don't explain neurophysiology, but I would be interested in reading an explanation of "attention" and "habit" written in strictly neurophysiological terms. — Galuchat
If you've written five books on neuroscience, it shouldn't be a difficult thing to provide the requested explanation. Or just give me the titles, I'll purchase them myself, and look for the answer (assuming your books have been published).There you go. It was fact free waffle. — Apokrisis
A better neuroscientific division than conscious vs unconscious is attentional vs habitual...
So what we are dealing with here is a natural dichotomy of brain activity towards either dealing with life in a rapid, learnt, unthinking way, or a more deliberative, attentive, and learning way. And this is a dynamical balancing act. We have to be doing both at once all the time. — Apokrisis
Is the unconscious a myth? — Mongrel
Yes, just trying to 'Solve for Happy' (Mo Gawdat), without relying on a belief in grand purpose, or any sort of afterlife. It continues to amaze me that despite the astounding advances in technology, no one has figured out a sure-fire way to achieve lasting peace of mind. I've learned a lot of skills that have at least minimized the mental suffering, but I would pay almost every last cent I have to be rid of the last traces of depressed thinking and feeling. — CasKev