Believe it or not, I can't get into You Tube. I like listening to albums on CD and reading books, especially paper ones. To some extent I think that the internet is changing the shape of art. There may be some positives, especially in the way that many fiction authors who would probably have never managed to publish are able to do so. Also, Kindles are wonderful. I managed to download so many classics a few years and read them, and probably would not have done so.

With music, even though you are not a pop and rock fan, one of the problems which many people find is that on music made digitally is that it is different from that made in studios. In particular, the vocals often are often muffled in what may be regarded as soundscapes.

If anything, my biggest gripe is where the arts become light entertainment as opposed to being made and appreciated as works of art. One of the reasons why records may be popular is that they give scope for sleeve artwork and lyrics to be part of the creative process.

On the topic of Plato, the question about where images come from is a question which I do wonder about a lot. That is because Plato's idea of Forms or archetypes corresponds with Jung's ideas of the collective unconscious and archetypes.

Based on my own experiences of not just dreams but also on borderline sleep experiences and lucid dreaming, I would say that they come from some kind of objective source. At times, I have visionary experiences which are like intricate art work and they seem as if they are far beyond my own rational creative power. I would like to do art based on these but it is difficult because I can't recall the exact details when my eyes are open.

However, if one does believe in the existence of the collective unconscious as objective, the realm between the personal and collective sphere may be complicated. That is because characters in novels may be sub personalities of the authors.

Generally, I think that many do not believe in the validity of the collective unconscious and the forms. This is connected to the predominant influence of physicalist models of the mind. I am aware that my own point of view is not a common one within philosophy and is more in line with esoteric ideas, especially the Hermetic tradition.
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What I do remember is having a discussion with you at some point, in your former reincarnation identity, about urinals as art, because I had a friend who used to have many in his art. He used to create designs on them to make them look like gothic temples. This was a statement about religion and sexuality. Actually, one of my English 'A' Level teachers has written a book, 'Sin, Sex and Psychology.'

On the subject of art...I am curious about your new picture, wondering if it is really YOU. However, you may wish to keep quiet in case someone with the technology gives you a sex change...

Aesthetics appreciation is important as well as the philosophy ideas in the arts. I know people who have studied art based degrees and they have looked at aspects like aesthetic tastes from the point of view of phenomenology. I have a friend who did an art MA and wrote a paper on transience in still life.

I was probably fortunate in having the English teachers which I had, especially in sixth form. They opened up a world of philosophy in Shakespeare's 'King Lear'. I also remember reading Blake's 'The Marriage of Heaven and Hell' many times as it raised so much to think and worry about. And, it really was 'worry,'. My school friends probably got fed up with me moaning and groaning about such ideas, just as I go on about things on this forum!

It is interesting how some philosophers also write fiction, including Camus and Iris Murdoch. But, it may be that fiction comes from a slightly different place or state of mind.

The scope of the understanding of what it means to be creative may be restrictive, just as the value of other ideals and goals may be. It may come down to the construction of values, including those underlying philosophy and science. It may be asked to what extent is creativity important?

Of course, all the aspects of business, politics and health are important as aspects of creativity?
My own questioning would be how this relates to the deepest aspects of creativity. I have a bias towards the arts, but acknowledge my own bias. So the question of creativity and its understanding of it may come back to the underlying one of what does it mean to be human? The ideas and ideals generated by people rest on so many assumptions and ideals of the idea of 'creativity' and other intrinsic values.



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In a way, creativity can be a blurry concept philosophically. However, the idea of innovation, the 'new, as well as modification of ideas may be important. In understanding, both mythos and logos may be essential too, because divisions of reason, emotion and intuition may be partial aspects of creativity in the nature of understanding

The idea of 'the less trodden' may be important because it may take an important step in innovation to seek innovation. It may correspond with evolutionary pathways, and difficulties or conflict may be the starting point for the search for new possibilities.

It is interesting that you see creativity in connection with abstraction because I have always seen it as being about the breaking free from abstractions, especially in the way in which experience often challenges the nature of theory.

I definitely see concreteness of thinking as being opposed to the spirit of creativity. Thinking creatively, as a part of philosophy, may be like a form of mental gymnastics. It can include the many variables, ranging from the logical, rational, aesthetic and psychological dimensions of human understanding.

What seems to me to be a problem with your post is that it seems to misrepresent schizophrenia as being equal to lack of rationality. Schizophrenia is a recognized clinical condition. I am not denying that it may have some aspects which go beyond the medical model. Even though the tradition of antipsychiatry has faded one important work, which may still have some useful insights is RD Laing's, 'The Divided Self'. This looks at the existential splits in thinking often presenting in families, involving conflicting messages.

Generally, I think that your topic area is an interesting one and my main objection is to your title. This is based on my experience of knowing and working with people who have been diagnosed and living with psychosis. However, the whole idea of what is madness is an interesting one for reflection, as written about by Michael Foucalt. The whole antipsychiatry movement was important too, incorporating the social and political aspects of the labelling of mental illness.

The topic which you have raised is a large one, especially as you link it to philosophy and consciousness. Your outpost tries to cover so many aspects, all of which are important. However, it is a bit jumbled and I probably needs to involve some research, in order for it not to come across as a philosophy based on the label of schizophrenia. I do wonder how much knowledge do you have of the condition and experience of schizophrenia as a basis for starting a philosophy discussion on 'Anti-Schizophrenia'.

To some extent it would probably make some sense to view the brain as being like a virtual reality machine. It generates experience but the idea of a machine may have some limitations. While it is a system, and each human being is a system within many larger ones it may ignore the importance of sentience. Human consciousness may be have evolved or emerged and be imminent, but the question may be whether it can be reduced to its mechanical parts.

This may or not be extremely important. The reason for this may be connected to the current focus on artificial intelligence, which involves an emphasis on simulated forms of consciousness. I read a very unusual book a few weeks ago, by Frank J Tipler, 'The Physics of Immortality', which suggested that the idea of resurrection of the dead is a possibility in the form of simulated reality. It draws upon Teilhard de Chardin's idea of the Omega point, as a way of understanding the creation of information and simulation of brains and consciousness in the future. It is very different from the religious idea of resurrection of the dead but this may be where the idea of seeing the brain as a virtual reality machine may lead. One question which I wonder about is whether this is too concrete and involves some mythical fantasy as a form of literalism almost parallel with the traditional or fundamentalist religious ones.

When you speak of confabulations I am not sure that it is that simple. The day to day shared experiences are often seen as the 'real', but that in itself is a form of constructed perception. This may be where the issue of qualia arises. In many ways, colours are vibrations and it is uncertain if different species see the exact same frequencies as one another, and the whole subtle realm of vibrations.

There is also the question of inner and outer reality although it may be that it is not an absolute division because human beings dip in and out of these modes. Here, the possibility of lucid dreaming arises. This is a spectrum ranging from hypopompic and hypnagogic states as well as meditations states of awareness. It was only as a result of having some diagnosed eye problems that led me to read about the retina, which is actually part of the brain.

At one point last year I developed blurred vision in my right eye. When I had it checked out it was macular oedema, which is completely different from macular degeneration. The problem is stable, although I had to have new glasses with a stronger lens for the right eye. What is important in relation to this thread is that since I developed this problem I sometimes see intense visual images in my right eye when it is closed. This is not unpleasant and sometimes I see gardens with decorative walls and unusual symbols on walls. From what I have researched, this is connected to phosphene activity in the retina.

Oliver Sacks has written on unusual organically based experiences. Often, people expect perception to function identically. The brain is definitely involved but it still means that perception is complex, with the example of the interrelationship between sound and vision of synthasaesia.

It is hard to know to what extent I would have come to the exact same view if I had not had the particular experimental experiences. Of course, it is possible that the underlying view which I was developing played a factor in the experiences themselves. The ideas which a person comes with may play a significant factor, although I was a bit surprised by what I experienced at the time.

Recently, I was reading some of Timothy Leary's writings, in which he looks at aspects of brain in relation to 'bardo' states. Many people are drawn to experiment with hallucinogens as a form of recreation. It was the ideas of Aldous Huxley and of shamanism which led me to experiment with cannabis, magic mushrooms and acid as a quest as I had already had some intense borderline sleep experiences.

So, the idea of psychedelic experimentation and experience may be for some a pursuit of understanding of the brain, mind and the nature of reality. When I took acid I definitely had some strange experiences in that respect. During the first trip I had the sense of there being no God, which I had not thought previously. Also, for some time afterwards I noticed I was having coordination problems and felt as if I had been out of my body and had not got back into it in an aligned way. This was the reason why I tried it again and during the second trip, in a warehouse dance event, I had a definite experience which felt like it involved a certain dualism. I felt able to walk through people and when I looked in a mirror I saw a reflection of the walls and environment but not myself. That was unnerving and I thought that I had lost my body..

It may be that the psychedelic experiences cannot be taken at face value, like with NDEs. However, for some people, such experiences may lead to a sense of there being other levels of reality beyond the physical perceived in day to day consciousness.

The idea of despair and hope is also related to the experience of depression and suicidality. I have experienced depression at times and have nursed people who were suicidal or had made suicide attempts. To some extent depression and suicidal ideas may be seen as a chemical aspect of fear, negativity and loss of hope. Antidepressants may be prescribed and in some people bring about a chemical restart of hope. But, it may not be that simple, involving life experiences and the existential aspect of despair.

Some of the literature on depression and despair is interesting, especially with the different models ranging from the psychological to the existential. Camus's 'The Myth of Sisyphus', is one interesting depiction of existential despair and Alvarez's, 'The Savage God' looks at the experience of despair and suicidality in literature. There is so much within the field of psychology. One aspect which may be important in psychiatry is the nature of bipolar mood disorders. While some there may be a biochemical component it does also involve such swings from complete hopelessness to a sense of exaggerated or inflated sense of optimism. The two poles of pessimism vs optimism go to the extremes.

One discussion which is also important is from James Hillman in, 'Suicide and the Soul'. What he argued is that the extreme state of suicidal despair, while being a sense of wishing for an end but it often may encompass a wish for transformation. The interplay between hopelessness and the wish for transformation has also been explored by Thomas More in his, 'The Dark Night of the Soul', which looks at the twilight state of despair and its navigation in relation to transformational states, which links the whole encounter with the symbolic demons of despair to the angels of hope and how these are experienced in human experiences.
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The idea of will itself is an important aspect of the free will debate but it often doesn't get much focus, especially in connection with materialist determinism. The idea of will was at the core of the thinking of Schopenhauer, Nietzsche and Freud.

The psychodynamic approach gives it attention in relation to the conscious and unconscious aspects and the conflict between these. So many conscious choices may be thwarted by the subliminal mind and this is central to neurolinguistic programming approaches. The cognitive behaviourist model, even though it uses a different language framework, does still incorporate this in the emphasis on automatic thoughts, which can be questioned within the therapy.

As far as will and intentionality it is partly about developing self-mastery. It is a lot easier to have intentions but harder to live up to them, like all the broken new year resolutions. It is hard to change one's behaviour patterns for many, probably because they become habitual.

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It is sometimes argued that hope is not the best approach to life. I had an art therapist tutor who seemed to regard it as a rather futile pursuit but the problem would be that without hope it may be like giving up. The existentialists, especially Camus, spoke of living with the absurd and despair. This may be valid to some extent but it depends how far it goes.

Also, there is the issue of hope in relation to despair, but fear also involves the aspect of faith. This need not be in the traditional religious sense but about faith in whatever path one is on, as an aspect of positive conviction. This may be important as a form of mindset, which involves clear intentionality in thinking about desired goals and not becoming defeated and engulfed by fear in an overwhelming way.

The attitudes of peace and love may also be important in an approach to life, if consciously chosen because at times in a dog eat dog world they can become lost, and pushed to the bottom of agendas. The secular humanists pointed to such values as an ethical foundation independently of religious beliefs.
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The reason why defence mechanisms are not spoken about much is because the language of psychoanalysis is not used very much because other models are used instead. I use it though because I have done some psychodynamic training and find it useful.

An example of a defense mechanisms may be someone ignoring particular points which someone has made totally on a topic as if excluding them. What I am describing is a form of selective attention. For example, if someone who is religious listens to a discussion about theism and atheism and zooms in on all the arguments in favour of God's existence and appears not to have heard all the points in favour of atheism. Similarly, this may appear in political discussions when one seems almost blind to opposing arguments.

The question about refusing to understand may come down to whether this happens consciously or not. Someone may say that they simply don't understanding without realising that they are not making an effort to do so, as an aspect of a subconscious defence mechanism. In some ways people may have blindspots about such defense mechanisms, especially in emotionally charged topics of a personal sensitive nature.

Even though it is possible to form arguments in the way that you have done it may out on the purpose of morality. It is a form of logic which could be used by Nazis and is dangerous in that respect. While rational formulation is a way of thinking it misses out on the nature of intuition and emotions which are central to moral values. It can be argued that emotions and conscience in themselves are restricted but what you are suggesting goes to the opposite extreme.

It is interesting to stop and think about whether it is possible to choose thoughts as a precursor to actions. It may be about the extent which focus is taken in thoughts. They may arise as a stream flowing but it is possible that in the observation of thoughts it is possible to be selective in intent as which to give attention to as an aspect of inner mastery. However, it may be a fairly difficult art because fighting unwanted thoughts may be a hindrance, potentially making them stronger and fiercer, but, at the same time the potential to follow through certain thoughts may be developed as an aspect of inner exploration and in the development of philosophical ideas and insights.

The idea of circular time is often the idea of eternal recurrence. It is hard to know how that could work though or whether it is symbolic. The only way it is possible as a literal reality is in idealist views of reality in which the non material fell into matter because that might allow for time to be outside of the material universe as some form of eternal cycles.

One of the aspects of the mind and body problem which I wonder about is how much is due to the brain and to what extent it is distributed throughout the body. Of course, the brain is involved in the organisation of the nervous system, but it can be asked whether other organs are of equal importance, as recognised in the Eastern tradition of chakra points, including the heart, root and sacral chakras and meridian points.

Some may see this understanding of energy centres as being a form of folk wisdom, but I wonder if the focus upon the brain, especially in neuroscience places too much emphasis on the brain alone in the generation of consciousness. In particular, emotions are connected with the physiological aspects of the entire body.
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Some have viewed Wittgenstein as being a mystic for his understanding of the importance of silence in relation to what one cannot speak about. Of course, his view was about the limitations of language, and this was in conjunction with the logical positivists. There is the whole area of people going into pointless speculation on aspects which cannot be known with certainty, like ideas about the invisible and life after death.

As far as the idea of the ineffable itself it can be seen as an attitude of wonder as opposed to trying to pin down understanding to specific theories and models. So, there may be some aspect of contemplation of known unknown. Nevertheless, in philosophy as opposed to some other forms of writing, it does seem that the art is to find words to try to develop rational arguments and clarity of thinking about concepts. So, even though both Socrates and Wittgenstein spoke of the limitations of their knowledge there may be an underlying paradox in which, despite the limits, there is a need to try to develop the best possible understanding of ideas.

It is interesting to come across someone who says that they believe in God but don't believe he created the world. So many people who believe in God believe in a creator. It may depend on what people mean by the idea of God, and so many perceive God in a very anthropomorphic way but there are other ways of seeing God, like that of Spinoza or the Hindu idea of Brahman.

Also, the Buddhists speak of higher consciousness, but not as an actual deity, so it may be that when people try to think about the idea of God they come from a stereotypical way of thinking based on church going beliefs rather than more imaginative ones. With many spiritual ideas, including the concept of God, such ideas were sometimes based on esoteric ones, rather than those adhered to in mainstream religious understanding.

I enjoy philosophy for what it is and I even get a bit 'high' when I go into the abstract theories. I guess it is all about balancing, the abstract and the more grounding ways of thinking. I am reading Merleau-Ponty's work on perception at the moment and that seems neither too far fetched or too flat and simplistic. Also, a bit of fiction helps too and I am reading Somerset Maughan's ' Of Human Bondage', and before long it should be time for the next short story competition which will balance the theoretical side of philosophy with another approach.

I may have a go at the course. Have you done it yourself? It does seem that critical thinking is becoming ranked alongside philosophy in bookshops and libraries. I read a couple of books on critical thinking and found them very useful because they seem to be applicable to real life and not simply abstract academic theories.

I don't even have pyjamas anymore, but wear an old T shirt and tracksuit trousers at night. Apart from pyjamas being a waste of money, I find that in shared accommodation I feel better if I am not dressed in obvious nightwear, when I meet others.

As for your query about the medieval times and ours, I think that the differences are probably vastly different. We rely on toiletries for washing, shaving etc. Water flows from the tap, the kettle is boiled and items kept in fridge. Also, we rely on electricity and television and online communication. It would be so different living in the medieval times and, often, we take the comforts and conveniences for granted, unless something goes wrong...

Check phone for emails, including TFP
Use bathroom for essentials activities
Make coffee and have breakfast
After eating, read for 30mins
Have second coffee and read for further 30mins
Reply to any urgent messages
Select clothes and get ready to go out to any appointments, shops or cafe and try to get positive mindset for whatever happens...

I do find some of the digital music good as well, especially some of the experimental ranging from psych rock to some crossovers, including electronica. I do still seek out new music being released whereas many people don't..

I hadn't thought of AI music and I do keep an open mind although I would probably prefer to hear human voices. But I do like music by bands like Kraftwerk, The Art of Noise, Daft Punk as well as Brian Eno and David Byrne, so I am into a fair amount of alternative improvisations.

In some ways it does seem that artistic abilities often deteriorates, and it may be that when a style is achieved so much comes down to imitation and repetition. I know a musician who thinks that so much been done that there is not much scope left, which does seem like the end of music, and possibly art as a whole. I am not sure that this is true though.

However, it does seem that with music one factor which may have affected quality is that a lot of it is made on computers. This may be why some does not sound as good as that which was made in recording studios. I don't know if that may be a contrast between Soundgarden and Breaking Benjamin, although it may surprise you that I actually like Breaking Benjamin, but possibly not as much as Soundgarden. (I really like grunge, especially The Screaming Trees, as well as Mark Lanegan's work and I was upset that he died of Covid_19)..

However, getting back to the original topic it does seem that we are entering the era of post post post post post post post possibilities, so what next...?

It probably is a humble thing to be able to admit that one is wrong. On this forum, and in many other public spheres there is often a lot of bravado, even some grandiosity. When I was working and before that there seems to be an emphasis on selling oneself, and an emphasis on making a big thing out of one's strength and playing down weaknesses. It is related to egocentricism and the notion of 'the big I am.' However, in spite of such values I would probably respect or admire someone admitting that they are wrong as a form of honesty and willingness to modify thinking. I wonder to what extent others may hold this view in spite of the ethos of defending one's position to the bitter end.

The term 'real' is used in various ways and to some extent it may come down to commonsense picture, or that which is confirmed intersubjectively. Even within psychiatry, while there is some acknowledgement of cultural beliefs and differences, there is an adherence to a general realist worldview. This is the basis for ideas of what is delusional and, for example, if one believes that they have magical powers they are likely to be seen as delusional. To some extent, there may be a shared understanding of delusion in the psychiatric and philosophy perspective in Western culture.

It is interesting seeing this thread pop up and it seems such a while ago. When I first read Midgely's idea of philosophical plumbing I didn't appreciate it's full significance. However, over a year or so later, I do think that the ideas are ones which stand out as being influential. I had not come across her writing at that time and I have seen some other writing by her and see her as being a philosopher of great significance.

It is possible to spend life in the sceptical aspects of philosophy questioning. As far as the uncertainties in life, in some cases it does become too much, especially when the existential aspects of philosophy become incorporated. This does seem true of many cases of neurosis and psychosis. I have seen people who experienced florid religious psychosis, often in response to stress and unhelpful ideas which they had grown up with.

For many of us, rather than philosophy questioning being a case of acute crisis it can be a life long exploration on an ongoing basis. As far as the uncertainties of life and decisions, often involving risks, some action has to be taken because life goes on at a certain pace and it is not possible to spend one's entire life agonizing over all the possible uncertainties because this life has to be lived in the here and now rather than postponed until all the philosophical possibilities are explored. So, it may involve mistakes and it may be the mistakes made which involve the strongest lessons in life.

Doubt against certainty can be a stumbling block in making decisions. I have certainly hesitated with so many 'what ifs' in making decisions. Action has to be taken to some extent, or being completely stuck, and once an act has taken place there is often the unknown of potential consequences and the angst which this may entail. Even then, sometimes the results, good and bad can be different from what was originally imagined in the original decision making process.

To look for complete certainty may be too extreme. I remember as a child that I used to check what I was thinking before putting up my hand in class and I came to realise the absurdity of this even when I was 5. Endless struggling for certainty may be a waste of time and energy. It may be important to recognize uncertainty when it seems to be a genuine lack of knowing but, sometimes, it may be about going with intuitive logic rather than wavering unnecessarily.

I wonder if it is certainly which people have, or a matter of faith. I am not dismissing the positives of certainty because I am sure we all rely on so much certainty or predictability. Understanding of causation and predictability are intrinsic to life on even the most mundane, common sense way. If there were no certainties it would be like sinking in a quagmire of complete confusion, with not even a hope of a lifeboat or any aid at all. It may be an ongoing battle between fear of chaos or faith, and hope.

It is true that psychological and epistemological uncertainty are different aspects for thinking about. The two can both be sources of stress but philosophy is more able to deal with the epistemological aspects, although it may give some underlying basis for contemplating the uncertainty and unpredictable nature of our own life. At times, people may see the experience of the uncertainty of daily life and the understanding of reality as a fused in a quagmire of confusion. However, in stripping down the basics of thinking it may be possible to disentangle the explanatory foundations for knowledge. This may be more of a possibility than trying to predict what will happen in life, even though a certain amount of logic may enable thinking about what may or may or not occur may be useful in a pragmatic way.

It is important to think about how the various people, especially those who have 'cognitive' problems are affected by changes which are occurring. At times, when I struggle with online communication and forms I begin to doubt my own cognitive abilities, so what must it be like for people who are really unable to read and write. Some have support and some don't.

Whether it is due to cognitive or other difficulties, it may be that an underclass is developing, of people who just are a bit outside the parameters of the mainstream. It is probably not an entirely new development but as life gets more digitalised and 'faster' there may be greater exclusion of those who find it hard to compete in the fight for resources. In the case of the most downtrodden, they may be less able to argue for their rights and be cast outside of agendas for arguing for their rights, and be a silent minority on the periphery or edge of society.