Socrates gadflying in public, totally cray cray. — praxis

The internal voice (the Daimonion) that told Socrates no whenever he was about to do something wrong sounds far weirder than his method, which was probably more annoying than crazy. But maybe it's just a creative take on what we call the conscience (though one doesn't audibly hear it). Greek society then, as much as society now, was all kinds of cray cray, given that everybody was running scared about speaking against the gods and slaves and pederasty were a okay.

When in Athens, circa 399 BCE... go watch the chariot races, after watching Soc drink Hemlock.

Calling someone insane/crazy is sometimes a casual but still ambiguous compliment when the implied context is shared between two parties.

Example: Alex Honnold is insane/crazy for free climbing El Capitan. This could both convey a sense of awe and envy in some people given the high probability of death if a mistake is made. Death defying feats require courage and skill, things which are generally commendable. A high risk move with incredible pay off, if successful, might be complimented with "crazy" by the average person who would never take such a risk.

Example: Elon Musk's investment in sending humans to Mars is insane/crazy. Maybe commendable, as an achievement, like climbing El Capitan, but also incredibly stupid/wasteful from the point of view of intractable problems at home. Are there good reasons for sending humans to Mars? How would sending them to the moon be any different?

I'd like an example of a crazy/insane philosopher. The heresiarchs of the old days, those who questioned institutional reality (Christian cosmogony) with original hypotheses were possibly insane/corrupt by the standards of the time, but there was great pay off for future generations. Newton was into magic and alchemy.

Emil Cioran seems crazy, insofar a pessimism might arise from an illness (the body inflammed) or from tragedy. How could a serious pessimist like that exist and ought you really call him a philosopher rather than a poet. Or is it a kind of poets play/humor that is detached from his character, an artistic salve/work for the condition he was in.

Well, it simply means that there's something out there, perhaps a quality, I'm not sure what, that's universal [present everywhere and everytime] — TheMadFool

There is the popular notion that other animals can detect an oncoming natural disaster before it is apparent to us, whether due to air pressure changes, rising water tables, et cetera. Not sure how well studied the phenomena is, if at all, but maybe that means we have the capacity to sense the same thing with our bare senses if we could tune out competing stimuli. Can humans detect air pressure changes? Seems the theory stands that some kinds of desensitization you describe helps to free up the ability to pay attention to other/new stimuli. It's about reducing cognitive load, an adaptation to keep us on our feet, ready for what is coming next.

There is possibly a universal stimuli, being everywhere in the universe potentially sensible, the cosmic background radiation. But that is just kind of like the stuff angry god must be atheist is talking about, stuff that is potentially sensible depending on the nature of the apparatus and focus of the sensor.

Edit: There is also metaphorical woo in the Advaita Vendanta tradition about the universal sound of God, related to the syllables AUM. Maybe it is just white noise (joke).

Allow me to walk quietly in your shadow — ArguingWAristotleTiff

Just running my mouth, shooting from the hip, inane, bolshy and benign shots. :pray:

Dang! Do you give lessons? — ArguingWAristotleTiff

Nature gives the basic lessons. Trump would give you lessons but you'll probably have to pay the entry fee to Mara Lago and then some.

The advertising funded media corporations and freelancers are the one's to give more sophisticated lessons, or the entities of the attention economy who have more insight about who we are then we do and who have a line into our psyches via our electronic pocket parasites.

It would explain why we feel so alone, so abandoned perhaps? — CountVictorClimacusIII

It's the new expansive view of the cosmos that had displaced us as the center of the universe that might explain some of this anxiety. The distances against the limit of the speed of light is kind of depressing. The vastness of space, the quantity of worlds out there and being stuck by gravity to a single orb in an uncrossable ocean. Further that these distances are growing.

No one is texting us from across the expanse. Where is the universe's social media feed?

I like the notion that humans left an embodied world (God) as they increasingly developed the memory mediated self. Maybe animals still live in the embodied world, where the dissection of the self and the world has not happened. The dawn of consciousness is a kind of curse but since we're already here, this is the party we have to attend. Might as well build a god (a mummy daddy) to replace the one lost.

Funny thing is that superorganisms by historical example are always smarter than the component organisms. — god must be atheist

There is no way you can make this distinction. Smarter compared to what?

And at the collective level, a step scale upwards... we might have the intelligence of slime mold or a dinosaur. It might take a small comment from a political nut job to wipe us out. We're all the embedded cells of a non-human superorganism.

The true way is not to fight at all but to camouflage oneself, infiltrate the corpus, lay eggs and flee.

But your response is not driven by an emotional reaction? Not like an innocent bear. You're keep going on and on about how everyone has a corrupted mind... it stands to reason you're not excluded.

Then you also project an assumption (not conditioned by corrupting knowledge) about what it is like to be a bear.

No need to reply. But your poetry is kind of interesting, though dour, uncharitable, melancholy and nihilistic. The corruption has moved into my bowels. I must seek a toilet.

(wrong example. not only the wrong end of the stick, but it's the wrong stick) — skyblack

Apparently not, since we now know that a bear isn't corrupted by conditioned knowledge.

a mind that is common to all humanity. — skyblack

But are you included or excluded as one who has a corrupted mind? I would be surprised if you alone could make that designation.

Well, I can vouch for what it looks like in the corrupt cloud of unknowing. It would be better if we (the corrupt) didn't fear the unknown so much, didn't project a version of the world that isn't true but helps us along anyway.

It looks like everyone is playing a kind of patty cake, from the ants growing leaf mold to the golfers of the PGA hitting little balls across picturesque landscapes, to the anonymous and abstruse dialogues of this philosophy forum. Forms arising and falling away, transacting agents with there great and little dramas. Does it really matter what happens, as if there was any real control beyond the little self's daily decisions.

If a bear eating salmon in a river is an example of a kind of mind corruption (conditioned knowledge) all I can do is shrug my shoulders. I would much rather be like a bear salmon fishing, with no relationship to a past or future self that engages a ceaseless anxiety, supposing that is the case. There is just life in motion, pain and pleasure which comes and goes, no concept of death or something to die.

The OP could jettison "corrupt" and "innocent" for different qualifying terms, like virtuous versus virtueless, skillful versus unskillful, logical versus non-logical, et cetera. Not much to be gained by giant black and white categories reminiscent of the church or court of law.

Lord Huron has dropped a new album



I swore that I'd become a better man for you and I tried
Tried to change my ways and walk the line you follow
I bore a flame that burned a thousand suns for you but it died
Told you I could never love somebody else but I lied
Mmm, I lied
Mmm, I lied
I told you I'd be coming back again for you but I'm not
Going way out where the world will never find me
I made a claim that I would dance until we're bones with my bride
Told you I would never leave you all alone but I lied
I read your letter in the morning by the lake and I cried
They were tears of joy, my chains are finally broken
I made a vow to stand beside you 'til the day that I die
Told you I could never live without your love but I lied
Mmm, I lied
Mmm, I lied
Mmm, I lied
Mmm, I lied
Mmm, I lied
Mmm, I lied

Any lack of clarity is in the recipient's corrupted mind. — skyblack

I suppose that goes both ways though. You can't really be the objective judge of your own mind. The esteem you grant yourself is otherworldly if so.

Hope all this clarifies. — skyblack

Yes, you're much clearer but your value judgement using the strange words "corrupt" or "innocent" don't really mean anything because according to your language all minds are corrupt and innocent.
You haven't adequately fleshed out the difference between these two types of mind.

Can life really be a gift? — TiredThinker

At the risk of mixing metaphors, the glass of life is half full if we recognize it as a gift. Supposedly there are psychological benefits to exercising gratitude. There have been claims that the oceanic feeling that some are seeking as an antidote to unsatisfactoriness has neurological commonalities with "gratitude" and is drawn into dominance when the other brain regions (like the default mode network) are silenced.

A life can also be full of gift giving and gift receiving. Maybe the cup fills up the more you give and are grateful for.

Now about that gift you wanted to get me...

Sorry, you strike me as overly critical and what you are attempting to describe is unclear and seemingly in part contradictory.

Implicit knowledge cannot help leave a mark on the mind as it develops. There are dysfunctional minds, unbalanced minds, depressed minds et cetera but a corrupt mind sounds like a self-interested immoral mind (like a sociopath) that exploits knowledge for power at the expense of the well being of others. Corruption is a judgement made from an a particular point of view, relative to a set of values. It would help to ground your generalities through real life particulars, or imagined characters.

Or maybe on par with your abstraction, a corrupt mind is related to the maladaptive constraint of ego boundary, as is with depressed minds, where one cannot move forward constructively due to the emotively charged content of the past. One cannot step out of the bounds of the known and is thus limited by a fear mediated projection of the world (seeing through shit tinted spectacles).

You can ignore me if you like, if it is good to avoid depressed (perhaps corrupt) minds.

The living space of some depressed and anxious minds are less than modest.

Whether hung upside down naked on a steeple, or cleaving, white-knuckled, ropeless, to a shear cliff, or lost, neck high, down a well. It is no time or the right time to cur(s)e oneself. It would be so easy to leap if one weren't bound, less easy to grow too cold.

We might venture that no animal is as cur(s)ed quite like us. The censorious mind, deranged driver of ego and the executive mind, augur of all pasts and futures, arbiter of motion, has given us the task of digging a grave or a foundation for what is to come.

Go easy, censor. Live and let live.

If you go to work without a face it is probably because you failed to consult the self in the looking glass.

The reflection (dialogic analysis) of the self sounds like a metaphysical nightmare only a coterie of intrepid philosophers would care to plumb the depth of.

Who dares enter the looking glass by metaphysical means when it is better to play cards and drink coffee.

Inevitably a Buddhist will appear and say words like "Anatman" and "Shunyata" and then you'll have to run for the hills.

There are all manner of disturbing sci-fi premises compatible with a peaceful world but I suppose peaceful entails a world of flourishing and healthy populace (otherwise why peace?).

Maybe something like Westworld's Rehoboam, the grand central AI coordinator of all human affairs.
Even if such a system were in some sense ideal, minimizing suffering or maximizing well being, there would still be something deeply disturbing about it.

But maybe it would be less disturbing than current affairs. If we were denied knowledge of what the system actually is and lead to believe a lie for our own good, that would mean in some possible utopias, ignorance is bliss.

Maybe another downer bit lacking the contextualizing net of Borges work.

”This City is so horrible that its mere existence and perdurance, though in the midst of a secret desert, contaminates the past and the future and in some way even jeopardizes the stars. As long as it lasts, no one in the world can be strong or happy. I do not want to describe it; a chaos of heterogeneous words, the body of a tiger or a bull in which teeth, organs and heads monstrously pullulate in mutual conjunction and hatred can (perhaps) be approximate images.” — Narrator, The Immortal by Jorge Luis Borges

This quote stood out to me palpably.

The narrator is describing a city immortals have built and abandoned, possibly through excessive cycles of time. It is as disorienting as any of Borges metaphorical precursors/parallels like the Library of Babel or the Book of Sand or the memory of Funes, the Zahir, the Aleph, et cetera. These associative elements/themes/motifs echo and mirror the total work metaphorically/fractally.

_____________________

Net of Indra

Far away in the heavenly abode of the great god Indra, there is a wonderful net which has been hung by some cunning artificer in such a manner that it stretches out infinitely in all directions. In accordance with the extravagant tastes of deities, the artificer has hung a single glittering jewel in each "eye" of the net, and since the net itself is infinite in dimension, the jewels are infinite in number. There hang the jewels, glittering "like" stars in the first magnitude, a wonderful sight to behold. If we now arbitrarily select one of these jewels for inspection and look closely at it, we will discover that in its polished surface there are reflected all the other jewels in the net, infinite in number. Not only that, but each of the jewels reflected in this one jewel is also reflecting all the other jewels, so that there is an infinite reflecting process occurring. — Francis H. Cook

"At least you aren't the animal who checks his pocket parasite when standing in a checkout line."

InspiroBot 2.0 (Flesh Version)

Hearing is less important from a standpoint of being able to function independently in the world.

I'll keep my sight. Without hearing I'd be able to sleep in really noisy places. Would open up new opportunities to be at ease in otherwise unbearably noisy places. Restaurants would be serene.

You guys didn't fight Zeromus on the moon? It was epic.

FF II (JPN 4)
FF III (JPN 6)
FF VII

These were memorable but probably has more to do with when I played them. Don't like the aesthetic turn FF developed with later games. Nabuo Uematsu really did an excellent job with the music though. Remake remastered score is awesome.

Upcoming XVI looks like it might have fun gameplay.

Hay is for horses and legumes (beans/pulses) are for homo sapiens. We can predigest them in our exogenous mechano guts.

As growing plants they've added benefit of being well known nitrogen fixers, a means to more sustainable food production. Long live the Tepary bean. We may need it when all the fields have become arid.

Long live the leguminous peanut, the most addictive of fake nuts.

Reincarnation is no more consoling than whatever the alternatives are. When whatever pops again to call itself "I am what I am what I am" it might be another you or me. It might again carry disappointing features of its kin.

Some cultural/racial stereotypes might be primed and diffused purely by jokes with lost origins. To what extent this actually causes unwarranted prejudice or harm is a wonder.

In Hawaii the Portguese guy was always the butt of the bar joke, portrayed as a total idiot. It seemed so bad as to convey that the only reason for creating a bar joke at all was to shit on a whole ethnicity. The elementary school yard was rife with these.

Now ponder the historical cause of portraying the Portuguese this way:

they (the Portugese) were second in command after the white people on the plantations. And they always referred to themselves as Pawdagees. They were under the haoles (white man) but above everyone else. They were the luna (boss), the paniolo, the guys on horseback who made everyone work. And with someone strict over them-some of them were really mean-the workers made jokes about them. That's why a high percentage of the jokes in Hawaii are directed towards the Portuguese community. — Frank De Lima...

1. Look before you leap but if you decide to leap after you've looked, don't hesitate.

2. Many hands make light work depending upon what in hell is going on.

3. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth until after the Greeks have left. Or look directly in the mouth of a gift horse gifted by Greeks.

4. The squeaky wheel gets the grease because silence is golden.

5. You're never too old to learn unless you are too old to care.

6. Absence makes the heart ache and familiarity makes the head ache.

7. Don't rely on idioms to mend your clothes.

We just ceased. Here we are again.

I don't think mass blinking out of existence would make much of a difference if being is inevitable. There is no time for non-being so "in no time" being will be, whatever the variant flavor is.

Toiling your own field, planting a seed, watering the seed, and using the sun to grow wheat for flour is somehow appropriating the product and labor of others. Few greater absurdities have been spoken. — NOS4A2

Depends on whether or not you can pay loan off on the tractor you couldn't afford in full, I guess. Technically many folks might be legally appropriating the product and labor of others through debt.
When the highly efficient firms come to price you out and your left with a mountain of debt, there will be no crying "force and coercion" as a consequence of free market action. Shit happens.

There will be no monolithic state to punish you for defaulting, just a mob of racketeers working for the transient emanation of their local government. Then you can just defend yourself with guns. Pow pow!

delete

An odd idiom but idioms are odd.

The Latin word sal (salis is the genitive) means both "salt" and "wit", thus the Latin phrase cum grano salis could be translated to either "with a grain of salt" or "with a grain (small amount) of wit", actually to "with caution"/cautiously.[3] — wikipedia: Grain of salt

Apply a modicum of wit/caution toward whatever comes your way.

If a species is defined as that which cannot reproduce outside ones species, the first of a species must be lucky enough to have a mate that evolved like them. — Gregory

Interbreeding populations would drift slowly away form each other on the basis of some kind of environmental separation prior to genetic separation. Any genetic differences between two populations less frequently interacting that affect fitness might help to accelerate speciation over time, probably. It (speciation) takes a village (population) and time, if asexual reproduction isn't in play.

Polar bears can breed with brown bears to produce fertile grizzly–polar bear hybrids;[4][30] rather than indicating that they have only recently diverged, the new evidence suggests more frequent mating has continued over a longer period of time, and thus the two bears remain genetically similar.[29] However, because neither species can survive long in the other's ecological niche, and because they have different morphology, metabolism, social and feeding behaviours, and other phenotypic characteristics, the two bears are generally classified as separate species.[31] — Wikipedia: Polar Bear

Some nouns can be used indifferently as mass or count nouns, e.g., three cabbages or three heads of cabbage; three ropes or three lengths of rope. Some have different senses as mass and count nouns: paper is a mass noun as a material (three reams of paper, one sheet of paper), but a count noun as a unit of writing ("the students passed in their papers"). — Wikipedia: Mass Noun

There was zero toilet paper in the Philosophy Salon's water closet.

When essays were written on the toilet paper they became toilet papers, such that at any time there could also be zero toilet papers in the Philosophy Salon's water closet.

Can't wait for the disappointing answer to this hot mess of a riddle.

But will it be kept from us forever because the answer would ruin the point behind the question? Is this just a charade to generate conversation?

Once the donkey gets the carrot, the donkey stops.

Doesn't seem that this question is coherent. Why is it like to be this, assuming being like this (whatever this is) is a universal experience for beings like me. How else is it supposed to be like?

If you weren't at the center of your own perspective where would you be and if you were blind, would you have use for stuffing strange significance in the metaphor of looking from a center?

"God (or Bob) is an (un)intelligible sphere (body), whose center is everywhere and circumference nowhere." ~ Quoted Through the Ages

These younger, smart as a whip kids got the fat cats of Wall Street running scared and the kids are willing to hold the line. — ArguingWAristotleTiff

Eh, I doubt it. Wallstreet will always have the upper-hand at exploiting and exacerbating these trends. Their fingers are in every pie.

Curiosity is likely to chimpanzees to deserted cities and presents them with an
unparalleled opportunity and mental/verbal challenges. — Jacob-B

Just saying there is probably a lot of contingent factors and evolutionary happenstance that gave our species the edge which took great spans of time and fortuitous (or calamitous) incidents, also intra or interspecies competition/cooperation. Learning to cook food might be necessary step in that direction and an abandoned city might be somewhat invisible/negligible to chimp populations over an evolutionary span. Initially there might be no food for a chimp in a city, so chimps in a city wood either move out or die there.

If food were available in such a setting there wouldn't be much of a city left uncovered to differentiate it from nature.