It's the best, truest, most compelling and most genuine reason. — Vera Mont

It’s actually not the most genuine, compelling, truest reason especially if society is making you want it, so that’s just wrong. Not even close there.

what’s there to support it’s simply a fact of life so you haven’t really given a counter to that point.

Because your feeling is wrong. So far there isn’t evidence to suggest any sort of god or anything else beyond the here and now. You just sound delusional more than anything else. You’re believe it’s just that, faith and little else.

Asking what’s the point isn’t really looking beyond survival but more the question of why one survives. Animals and plants just do it without questioning. Humans was why do all this? Is there a point? Some are ok with there being no point.

What I want to know is why you made a new account just to horn in on this discussion with something utterly irrelevant. Seems iffy to me.

God is just one of those things you grow out of into something better.

but you haven’t proven it so. That desire to live is because society pushes it all the time. Most people don’t question whether their feelings are genuine or not.


So again IF they’re not then why bother living? Just because we have that desire isn’t a reason. I thought this was a philosophy forum.

I already did answer that. If we don’t genuinely feel things what’s the point in living. You haven’t really answered why anyone should.

again you’re still not

No, it’s imparted onto you by society.

No, there is no aspect of your behavior that belongs entirely to yourself.

so again, why bother living? You’re not really answering.

That's what was meant, if we don't genuinely feel anything, if we're just controlled by society then why bother living.

it’s funny you should use the matrix as that movie had nothing to do with real reality, it was pretty much about transgender people and transitioning.

It’s also funny you use that movie as an example when religion itself, god, Jesus, etc, is the matrix. It provides a comforting and easy answer to the hard questions of life. But those who dare to go past it find how much isn’t certain and how little we truly know or control.

It’s often a warning sign to steer clear of such people who claim to have “truth” because more often than not they don’t. But people will follow and listen because the unknown is scary and the lack of control terrifies people.

One thing, of many, that made me believe there isn’t a god or that I have no reason to think so is the creation of life. No loving deity would ever create life.

I find it odd you have an issue with just surviving, seems to be enough for animals so why do you need more than that? You’ll find that God ends up being a poor answer for just about any question. I see no reason to think there is more than this nor would I wish it.

Sounds like fear of death. Also this has nothing to do with the OP.

that says already explained how they are not genuine , supposedly. The question is why go on if they’re not.

yeah. It’s either something you believe or don’t. That’s about it.

This is one of those cute tail-eating propositions, isn't it?
If nothing we feel is genuine, the bother of living isn't genuine, since we're not genuinely living.
So, where did all this illusion, conditioning, control and influence come from? And on whom is it working, if "we" are not genuine persons? — Vera Mont

That's not really answering the question of what's the point in going on if nothing you feel is genuine.

If you don't have anything intelligent to say please don't bother commenting. I stopped taking it seriously once Jesus and God factored into it.

You obviously don't get it.

Well no, if solipsism were true there would be no reason to connect with people because there would be no other people.

that doesn't make any sense.

I'm saying if nothing we feel is truly genuine then what's the point of living? Your life is essentially a lie.

Well if nothing we feel is genuine then why bother living?

I suppose that's the point I take issue with, then.

Though, if we're just taking that definition as the rule -- then your conclusion does follow. You and everyone else is disingenuous, as they are, in fact, influenced by the things around them.

Only God could claim to be authentic under such a criteria, though. — Moliere

And that's the problem.

This, or something like it, I know from experience. There are different methods - solitary contemplation works for me; for someone I know who suffers from depression, it's analyzing dreams, or it might be writing poetry or keeping a journal. Basically, the process boils down to: See it, name it, accept it, own it. Then it can't own you. — Vera Mont

This is more like denying reality though. You don't genuinely feel anything so those emotions are more or less a lie.

Being under any sort of influence automatically makes it disingenuous as the original quote I cited said.

Alleged Buddhism expert since I have asked other Buddhism people and they say she's wrong. But that quote from the Tao Te is more about just letting things happen rather than fight them, which is supported by psychological research. Resisting a negative thought or idea, etc, ends up building a stronger association to it, rather than just letting it come and go. So actively trying to force something out of your mind does the opposite

So I feel empathy for Darkneos's thoughts. There's a sense in which it can feel like you're being controlled, that there is no escape, and that the people around you don't even acknowledge the propaganda around them.

But that's actually because the best propaganda doesn't look like propaganda to its target audience -- the crudity of propaganda is only apparent upon being perceived as propaganda, upon being able to reduce it to a command. And if you're just putting the glasses on for the first time, it can seem like nobody else has "figured it out" -- but the truth is, just enough people have "figured it out" that it's still effective. (And, as the movie more or less preaches to us, those alien persons who see the field of desire as a machine to be manipulated for their own ends -- They Live! :D) — Moliere

not quite what I'm getting at here.

Try unenlightened's advertisement meditation: whenever you see an advert, analyse it carefully and you will find in every case that it will first seek to provoke in you a negative feeling, and then offer you a solution to make you feel better. — unenlightened

Advertisement doesn't work on me so...

more like you don't understand what solipsism is and likely are making it out to be more than that.

That's not even close. It's literally what it says on the box, nothing else. That you are the only thing that exists, or only person.

Other forms say you can only be sure that you exist and everythign else is uncertain but this is the same thing and just splitting hairs.

I appreciate the thought.

It’s given me some to ponder on. I’m getting a sense of how my mind works and how I seem to judge things. A lot of the metrics I use to judge truth are bullshit and part of me knows it but like you said ego plays a big role in it. Through suffering I can tell myself that I see the world as it truly is, the cold and painful reality that people will ignore and lie to themselves otherwise. But that’s a trap.

The other trap I have is that I follow something if I don’t have an alternative explanation, which is just bad. Just because I don’t have an answer to something doesn’t mean they’re right.

I’m starting to see how much work goes into thinking for yourself but also realizing that doing so means conflicting with others. It’s unavoidable and I guess that means I have to grow out of being a people pleaser.

I think part of me already knows what I think and that I’m capable of it too. It’s just a lack of self esteem or fear of failure (one and the same) that keeps me locked into stuff that hurts.

Letting go of the pain feels like losing and giving up, which isn’t logic. Pain and struggle don’t always mean you’re right, and in my case I’m often in the wrong. I can ask the same question on different platforms, get the same answer each time (that I’m wrong) and then insist that they’re the deluded ones because they choose comforting lies over truth. Though now I see that’s stupid. Even more idiotic is believing something just because it hurts, there’s no logic to that. At least you can make a case for believing something if it’s comforting or soothing from a utility perspective.

Though I think my ego is so wrapped up in being the suffering genius, even though that trope is only in books. That to let go is to be normal and stupid like the unwashed masses (even though I’m in the wrong and other people can read what I read without suffering).

I guess writing it all out I see that I rely entirely on emotions or vibes and not reason or logic. Even though I’m capable of thinking for myself I don’t in order to avoid upsetting people or run the risk of being wrong. You know something’s wrong when you believe someone solely based off the perception that they seem like they know what they’re talking about (story of my life and it always it me in the ass).

Any way to make it stop?

It’s actually debilitating because my metric for what’s true has nothing to do with content or utility and everything to do with ego.

It’s the only reason I would hold on to something that hurts me, because letting go is weakness.

It’s a long standing issue I have where I can’t disagree with something someone says because I don’t have an alternative to what it could be, either that or they don’t admit they’re wrong.

So whenever I try to move on from what people say that I don’t agree with in my mind it’s like I’m denying truth to be comfortable. I associate the pain something brings me with truth, which is stupid. But I can’t stop it and it’s led to a lot of suffering in my life because believing something because it’s beneficial, helpful, or soothing to be is running from truth, lying to yourself, being stupid, insert terrible thing about you.

And I guess by extension I attribute being happy or at peace with lying to yourself (or insert bad thing). So I’m stressed 24/7 believing things that cause me pain because to let them go is to lose, or be willfully ignorant, loser, etc.

That’s what I mean.

Every time I email him in response to it his replies don’t really explain it:

I was wanting to emphasize that we are more than that-much more-not just what we perceive

If his goal is to say we are more than that he failed quite miserably at it. Though looking through his articles on psychologyToday I’m a bit skeptical of him.

Not to mention nothing he cites in there would really prove his point either. It’s weird now that I reflect on him. Didn’t help each time I ask him for clarity I get nothing in terms of a solid answer

Oh?

I guess that makes sense. Personally though even though I know it's mistaken or nonsense I can't let it go because it feels like denying the truth.

I mean that's what my instincts thought when I read it, usually trying to mix science with spiritualism and philosophy turns out badly, and I knew enough about BUddhism to know this guy doesn't understand Maya or illusion at all. It doesn't mean not real in BUddhism, it's more complicated than that.

BUt I guess I believed him because he graduated top honors and won awards like it mentions in the link:

https://www.health.harvard.edu/authors/srini-pillay-md

That's not actually what it was about...

Well judging from his reply to me I don't think even he really knows what he's talking about, not truly from everyone else I've asked about this:

I think this paradox holds true.

While we are connected to the form of our bodies, there are things we can do to change this. Yet, as we connect more deeply with what the body is,
we recognize that we are really more than just the way we appear through our sense organs.

Thanks.

This is from the guy in the first link, the quote in my OP is from a Quora user but you have to have a plus subscription to read it, which i think is nonsense.

I think the "new age wisdom" part detracts from his point rather than enables it. Just because new age wisdom thinks so doesn't make it true, and I agree. A lot of things in new age wisdom is...well nonsense. Top that off with wishy washy interpretations of science (especially quantum physics) and well...

Not to mention I asked and the Buddhists I talked to say he misunderstands what is meant by Maya in Buddhism, which doesn't surprise me.

But his "evidence" isn't really proof of his point either. It's more like he just interprets it to mean that this is an illusion. The part about us being mostly water is iffy. Sure we are mostly water but call it a bag of water is way too reductive. Like Ice is water frozen solid, the water in our bodies is a part of everything else in us that leads to things being solid.

It's hard to believe he's highly regarded when he makes wacky takes like this: https://www.health.harvard.edu/authors/srini-pillay-md

I mean in a way that can be understood. 5 dollar words made that unintelligible.

English?

It's not me saying that I'm just asking if that view is valid.

I personally am leaning towards no, because if there's one thing I've learned is that existence is complicated.

Nope. It’s impossible because there is no way to get outside of your perception. Ironically getting outside your perception would disprove it immediately. So in order to test or prove it it would have to be wrong.

There is no other angle. Sometimes people trying to make a distinction can't see the forest for the trees. Like when you break it down there is no distinction between metaphysical solipsism or epistemological.