• Should This Thread Be Considered?
    I can relate to that: the very idea of an evil rabbit is super-cool. — Janus

    Wallows satisfyingly.
  • The ‘Box’: ‘Apocalypse’
    Bumps shall not be allowed.

    Just kidding, interested in what might come out of this thread.
  • Should This Thread Be Considered?
    I've always wanted to wallow in awe, but whenever I thought I'd found something it slipped away.... — Janus

    You just kind of wallow in prostration with increased vigour, you know how to I'm sure of it!
  • Should This Thread Be Considered?
    Wallows in awe...
  • Bannings
    ↪Baden


    Fine, whatever floats your boat. Mine is sunk. But enough whinging. I shall comply, grudgingly...
  • Bannings
    ↪Baden


    I'm just unhappy I can't post any meaningfully satisfying topics.

    And I already explained that I was on benzos regarding the gibberish posted some three weeks ago or so.

    Can you at least politely ask jamalrob if I can post topics in the lounge area? I'm afraid of bothering him.
  • Is it immoral to do illegal drugs?
    ↪Janus


    Then I ought to ask, what's wrong with utilitarian ethics in your view?
  • Bannings
    general dissatisfaction and strife. — Baden

    My life since I got singled out for being the drag on such desired standards. I wasn't even given the possibility of improving myself.
  • Is it immoral to do illegal drugs?
    ↪Janus


    Well, you asked for some method at determining the valence of drug use in a community, did you not?

    I responded with advocating a utilitarian ethic as some means at addressing your concerns.
  • Poor Reasoning
    I'm wondering if one can, by extension, say the same of psychologizing?

    Namely, what do I mean? I mean to imply that these mental excursions are really manifestations of some psychological issue or urge that needs explication and refinement.

    Seemingly, my pontifications on this forum are really some form of escapism or poor intellectualization. Therefore, does that make the merit of my musings really trite and mundane? I'm not entirely sure. It seems to me that I've been cognizant and aware of this fact, which was made explicit recently by the mods of this forum.

    Over in the shoutbox, I made the assumption that what drives people to post on this forum is really some venting source for one's defense mechanisms. Generalizing, I would say that my "drive" to post on these forums is really, as mentioned, to stave off boredom and serve as an outlet for a sherbert head.

    What do others think?
  • The right to die
    I agree. When someone is hurting, you want to help them alleviate the pain, not add to it. — Purple Pond

    To be excessively pedantic, it's not so much adding to their pain as much as telling them to suppress it.
  • Is it immoral to do illegal drugs?
    ↪Janus


    Well, I think we can both agree that kids taking drugs is not really a good thing for society or any community. And, kids seeking out drugs, will invariably impact one's community some way or another.

    But, looking at some method to asses the impact of drugs on a community, then I suppose if you're inclined to assume a utilitarian calculus, then, drugs will always retard the development of a well functioning society or community.
  • The right to die
    I'm not sure if that's what you meant, though.

    My dad used to guilt trip me. He used to tell me to think of all the people I would hurt by committing suicide. I guess he'll try anything to keep his son alive. Whether it works, or not, isn't a different story.     — Purple Pond

    Yeah, I guess there's more than one way to skin a cat here. But, I guess what I'm saying is that it's a poor way to deter suicide to blackmail someone out of it.
  • Psychiatry’s Incurable Hubris
    Would this thread apply to places like Cambodia, where ailments are treated as social issues instead of individual problems? Or just did we enlargen the scope of the issue?
  • The right to die
    Or to put this another way, why blackmail someone out of suicide. Has that ever worked out in the past? I'm not quite sure, doubtful...
  • The right to die
    I don't agree in every case. What about the case where someone wants to die when they're in severe pain, however in the future they will be grateful that they're still alive when the pain goes away? — Purple Pond

    That's not really the point I was trying to make. If there are arguments to be made for or against suicide, then bringing up a suicidal person's family or friends as some form of a deterrent from committing the act is just plain and simply dumb.

    If it prevents someone from committing suicide, why not? — Purple Pond

    Well, there's no point in arguing from a moral high ground and sermonizing the moral wrongness of committing suicide, don't you think?
  • The right to die
    Let's not forget that suicide is rarely a harmless act. Think of all the loved one's that get hurt. — Purple Pond

    Does someone want to die? So be it. No point in guilt-tripping a troubled mind already.
  • Psychiatry’s Incurable Hubris
    Forgive me for barging in without addressing every interesting point raised thus far in this discussion, and having skimmed the article; but, if mental illness is a normative claim, then shouldn't we first address what does the term "normal" ought to mean in this context?

    I mean, everything else, from 'lack of insight' into one's condition to above and beyond would fall into place.

    Now, obviously, one can surmise that this task is inherently dangerous and prone to authoritarian superstition; but, the can be only be kicked down the road as long as it has been.
  • Is it immoral to do illegal drugs?
    ↪Janus


    Conversely, we can be naive and claim that we don't know where the heroin someone is doing is not supporting evil empires or states, like the Taliban. Most drugs have some point of origin and fund some activity.

    As I say, it would be naive to feign ignorance and claim that it's a non-issue. But, some drugs are rather harmlessly attained, as you mention magic mushrooms or pot. Not all drugs have been made by North Korea, for example.
  • Poor Reasoning
    Sometimes even then they're still not aware it, or are in denial. — S

    :fear:
  • Is it immoral to do illegal drugs?
    ↪Daniel Cox


    Ok, understood. Though, to rationalize an addiction can be helpful in finding a way out of it.

    I have ADD and have been prescribed many stimulant drugs. About a year ago I tried meth for the first time.

    Been there done that...
  • Is it immoral to do illegal drugs?
    I was a meth addict for 17 years, it had its toll on everyone in my family not least of which were my Dad, the Admiral and my Son, born on All Hallows Eve '89. — Daniel Cox

    Would you call your addiction some form of self-medication? How do you rationalize the addiction part of your dual diagnosis?
  • Is it immoral to do illegal drugs?
    Decriminalization but also control. How? Dunno, to be worked out. In my city are methadone clinics. — tim wood

    That seems to make sense to me. Supply and demand I suppose. Eliminate the profitability of drugs and the house of cards topples down on its own.
  • Has progress been made? How to measure it?
    The limits of my language stand for the limits of my world. — Wittgenstein, TLP 5.6
  • Has progress been made? How to measure it?
    We could discuss the concepts of value and progress until our ears bleed or go deaf, but it is not the answer to the question(s) I put to you. — Amity

    Is there really any answer that would count as an answer? I'm not sure. While I do think I have made some progress in my own philosophical development, it has been slow and not really quantifiable. Last year, I had a spiritual experience while pondering over the seventh proposition of the Tractatus. I was actually coming off most of my meds, to be honest; but, the feeling was profound in that I had a flash of insight as to what philosophy really means. As I understood it, progress in philosophy, as in any other subject is if something has been learned. But, philosophy is peculiar in that ideas and conclusions are organic and not trite or tautologous like mathematics or some other science. Meaning, that it's almost as if one has to live through something via experience to understand it in philosophy. Wittgenstein talks about forms of life in philosophy, which would be the closest comparison.

    The questions I put to you were in connection with your personal progress or development through your reading(s) or understanding of Wittgenstein. You place him high on your list of 'favourite' philosophers.
    So, you find him of some value then ?     — Amity

    Sure, why not? But, really there's no winning strategy in philosophy. It's kind of a stagnant pond that needs holes drilled in it during the winter to keep the fish alive. Sorry for the horrible analogy! Or to put this another way, my reading of Wittgenstein has led me to my own awareness of my limits. To surpass one's limits is to understand where they lay in the first place. Without that knowledge, then nothing new can be learned or lived through.

    Philosophy is important in that one has to understand the limits of their own world to be able to reach out and assimilate new things into one's world-view.
  • Has progress been made? How to measure it?
    So, again the psychologism rears its head, and one has to say, that personal progress is in fact immeasurable.
  • Has progress been made? How to measure it?
    Would you say that you yourself have managed to progress philosophically, since you began? — VagabondSpectre

    Yes, although I'm not quite sure what that has amounted to? Being more aware of logical fallacies or some such matter? Seems like a misguided claim to say,

    "I have progressed philosophically",

    Well, how so?
  • Has progress been made? How to measure it?
    Whether or not the academic end of philosophy can be successfully deployed among the plebs is an interesting question... Time will tell! — VagabondSpectre

    It sure isn't going to be. If progress can't be measured inside the field of philosophy, then I'm afraid we're stuck at square one.
  • Has progress been made? How to measure it?
    Not a reading recommendation but in Enlightenment Now: The Case for Reason, Science, Humanism, and Progress, Steven Pinker makes a good argument for progress. — praxis

    Got no money; but, cool.
  • Has progress been made? How to measure it?
    Philosophical thought often helps form the foundation of more specific fields. Things like economics and medical science are the more visible fruit-bearing branches, but philosophy accounts for so much of the root system that nourished them to begin with. Developments in philosophy often have applications further down the line, ethics being one strong example. — VagabondSpectre

    Pretty much. Nothing to disagree with here.

    Though, if philosophy is viewed as useless, by many, what can be said about the field? Some kind of PR campaign on the merits of philosophy is needed or what?
  • Has progress been made? How to measure it?
    Strangely enough, it's often the case that through the appreciation of philosophy and ethics, that these issues, like global warming, derive their "valence". So, philosophy does serve some purpose here.
  • Has progress been made? How to measure it?
    Different people will inevitably do different things. Even those who don't want children often want to leave the earth a better place than when they found it. — VagabondSpectre

    Yeah, I'm in agreement here.

    Maybe philosophy changes with the times, on a kind of opportunistic basis. It either serves us or it doesn't. And those fields of study that don't continually advance are just waiting to be left behind, made irrelevant by something more desirable, more useful, and more persuasive. — VagabondSpectre

    Well, philosophy isn't qualified in dealing with these issues, rather than say some discipline like economics or some such dismal science, say. So, does that make philosophy, impotent? I think so.
  • Has progress been made? How to measure it?
    Depends on if you care about future humans (possibly your descendants). — VagabondSpectre

    I don't plan on having children. 'So what', one might say? But, I don't think it's a matter about caring about the welfare of our children that really counts here. We're going to do what we want regardless if we want it bad enough, that is.

    History informs us. I say that we're better off. Who says different? — VagabondSpectre

    We might be getting off topic with these economic issues, as the OP was about philosophy squarely.
  • Has progress been made? How to measure it?
    We shouldn't draw an absolute from a generalization (not all generalizations are inaccurate, but they're by definition not absolutely precise; there may be exceptions). — VagabondSpectre
    Yeah, I agree; but, there's really no authority on the matter, so I might as well retort, "Says who?"

    In short, we might destroy or do lasting harm to ourselves as individuals or a species by constantly chasing progress, so if we're going to chase after it, we need to do it with open eyes and be aware of the risks. — VagabondSpectre

    But, according to a famous economist, we're all dead in the long run. And, there's no incentive to internalizing externalities like carbon emissions, resulting in scenarios like global warming.
  • Has progress been made? How to measure it?
    Society is way bigger now, and we've got fundamentally bigger problems, but the average individual still tends to fare better as the result of our societal progress. — VagabondSpectre

    So, there's no way around it. Progress is intrinsically meaningful both to the individual and society at large. "Therefore", we must focus squarely on progress at all "costs".

    We're rolling a hell of a lot of dice in modernity, and that's not without risk, but the rewards so far would be indescribably amazing in the eyes of our ancestors. — VagabondSpectre

    What do you mean by "risk" here?

    Thanks.
  • Has progress been made? How to measure it?
    But it seems to have value... — Amity

    Getting back to you on your question...

    So I think "value" and "progress" have been conflated with one another as of late in human history. I don't think there's any value in viewing things as only having value if progress is promoted. So, does that condemn us to some sort of dogmatism? I don't know.
  • Is it immoral to do illegal drugs?
    I might as well ask again in this thread...

    When does a drug have some utility? When it's bestowed by some authority behind it and has some social good to promote?

    Here in the US, we have Schedule I, II, III, and IV drugs. Schedule I drugs have no conferred utility according to authorities. Yet, according to people behind research institutes like MAPS, there's some utility to be had behind the use of certain Schedule I drugs, like LSD or psilocybin.

    Anyway, I think, some drugs, like LSD or psilocybin have some utility, where other's don't, even if they are legal.

    For example, methamphetamine is a Schedule II drug, that can be prescribed by psychiatrists, as Desoxyn. Does that mean that it should be a Schedule II drug? Seemingly so.

    To self-negate (or propose a third alternative), I don't think there's any utility in viewing drugs as conferring some purported utility. Yet, I'm not so hot on the idea of legalizing them, as much as decriminalizing them.
  • Should the Possibility that Morality Stems from Evolution Even Be Considered?
    In conclusion, any ethical system that bases itself only around evolution is fallacious. — Dgallen

    What about if it has some conferred utility? Then, isn't it considered as beneficial towards some end?
  • What is your gripe with Psychology/Psychiatry? -Ask the Clinical Psychologist
    I'm just locked up because I was violently mentally ill over a decade ago. It doesn't matter how stable I am, the state sees me as a liability and they will never unilaterally recommend my release. I have a lawyer working on it. — yupamiralda

    Wow, how bad is it?
  • Marijuana and Philosophy
    Also, if you're looking at trying to potentiate the high of marijuana, try some caffeine or agmatine. Blast off!
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