Anyway, I don't know all the details. It would be nice if we could accommodate everyone on this forum; but, maintaining it and not getting paid for doing such a task entails some things, if you know what I mean?

I don't think he was intolerant, I think it was just his style. — Agustino

Telling someone to suck your whatnot kinda makes the point clear, in my opinion.

Come on, did you or the moderators really expect Buxta to stop? — Agustino

So, we ought to be more tolerant to people who become increasingly intolerant to others opinions? That's not a stable equilibrium by any means.

By eccentricities I referred to actions which are peculiar to an individual (such as some swearing is to Buxta), but which are otherwise irrelevant - they don't cause any harm. — Agustino

Depends on the context. But, I had nothing against Buxte, just that he became increasingly hostile and grudging against a particular moderator, upon being notified that he was put on 'probation', which is a horrible thing to tell someone on an online forum, and hope we can do away with it, if at all possible.

There is no norm, they are eccentricities. — Agustino

Eccentricities exist on a spectrum of deviating from some norm, no? So, what's the norm?

I think we should accommodate eccentricities, not exterminate them. Extermination of difference will only lead to the degradation of this community. — Agustino

So, what's the norm here if we're talking about eccentricities?

Superchill.

I've had lucid dreams and I don't know if I'd say I felt like a God — Moliere

Well it's nonsensical to talk about feeling like God. But for all intents and purposes you were tantamount to being a god, at least. That's what I meant.

Nothing was ex nihilo. — Moliere

Is that important in some way? Dreams are self generated content, at least to the highest degree possible.

The dreamworld, as I've experienced it at least, seems to be so thoroughly human that I don't think it proves the concept of "God-hood" as something which is actual, or even coherent. Not that this is a disproof, either -- I just don't think it's related. — Moliere

Why not related? You have something tantamount to the power of a deity in a lucid dream. How is that not related?

Posty McPostface - suggests I read Plato - do you have a specific reference please? — Ron Besdansky

http://www.informationphilosopher.com/knowledge/divided_line.html

You might like:
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/2000/known-knowns-known-unknowns-and-unknown-unknowns

That is my name.. but obviously not the totality of my identity which encompasses the totality of my thought. — Marcus de Brun

Oh, cool. We're on the same page then. Posty is me, and Marcus de Brun in you, haha.

Not necessarily, as I might be 'lying to myself' believing what I desire to believe rather than a more painful truth that I do not 'know that I know' (a Donald Rumsfelt phrase). — Marcus de Brun

Ahh, Rummy with the known knowns, the known unknowns, and the unknown unknowns. Epistemically we are bound to known knowns and known unknowns, unknown unknowns aren't entertained by us, not in dreams at least. There is one last category though, they are unknown knowns.

The I and the self are dependent upon what consciousness 'decides' to make of the deeper Will. — Marcus de Brun

Too deep. For clarity sake, let's assume that we can only be aware of what we are aware of.

They (poor words) do not reflect my thought entirely and indeed are only an archaic evolutionary mechanism towards my biological function, like the yelping of a dog or the singing of a bird. — Marcus de Brun


That could be true but how could I know otherwise?
— Posty McPostface

I don't understand the question. — Marcus de Brun

I mean to say that I have nothing to go about what you are referring to here.

I would not be so presumptive as to think I can educate anyone other than myself. Even my kids are relatively oblivious to my influence. — Marcus de Brun

Oh, well, OK. :(

I will review my Schopenhauer and return with the appropriate reference. — Marcus de Brun

Thanks!

So basically a power trip then. — StreetlightX

Not as you understand it at least. It's not power over something external, rather internal.

These words are not "me" speaking. — Marcus de Brun

This is confusing. I think I'm speaking with someone called @Marcus de Brun, am I not mistaken in your identity?

and I may be lying so the entire communication might well not be in the least way reflective of my thought. — Marcus de Brun

Well, then you might be lying but some part of you knows what the truth is. So, even if your lying or bullshitting (a Frankfurtian term), then at least you still have some narrative or the truth hidden in deceit or lies as guiding the conversation.

They (poor words) do not reflect my thought entirely and indeed are only an archaic evolutionary mechanism towards my biological function, like the yelping of a dog or the singing of a bird. — Marcus de Brun

That could be true but how could I know otherwise?

The issue at hand returns to Schopenhauer's notion of the origin of Will. — Marcus de Brun

So, then where does the will originate from? Educate me as I'm not that well read in Schopenhauer's philosophy, although I should be.

Doesn't the necessitate the problem of agency? After all this is "you" speaking and "me" replying.

One of my 'selfs' is typing my response to you, another is smiling at how smart I think I am, whilst another is telling me that only foolish people think they are really smart.

Which one do you prefer... I love them all ad-infinitum. — Marcus de Brun

You don't believe that do you?

I did dream research many years ago and became an expert in collective human symbolism, so I could analyze my dreams. — wellwisher

I find it odd that dreams are so easily forgotten, except the most emotionally intense or moving ones. Do you know why this is?

I used to keep a dream journal, that significantly helped me recall and analyze my dreams; but, no longer do that anymore. It's very tedious trying to write down what happened in your dreams if you have experience with this.

So I want to say very firmly and clearly that there is no escape from oneself, absolutely none. So this fear cannot act, except to run in circles trying to get away from itself like a dog running away from its tail. If that is seen very clearly and completely, it is the end of fear. — unenlightened

What next then? Reaching out to the world? Becoming a cosmopolitan or socialist? You have led the fly out of the bottle; but, often the fly reminisces about how comfortable a life it had in the bottle.

Oh, how does this sound similar to Plato's analogy of the cave. Hehe.

All I'm willing to give to the idea of "lucid dreaming" is it's somewhere between actual dreaming and day-dreaming and I feel it's much closer to the latter than to the former — TheMadFool

You're probably right on this account. I would think the brain wave patterns of a lucid dreamer might resemble that more of an awake person than one deep in REM sleep. Interesting stuff.

I'm scary? Jesus, that can't be even true, can it?

Let's stop talking about monsters. I'm getting scared...

But your still dreaming, no?

You do appear to avoid the 'shoutbox' which appears to be the place where the monsters like to roar at their roars. — Marcus de Brun

Yes, I'm considering not participating in the Shoutbox anymore. I'm too sensitive for the roughhousing in there.

What would you call that state of being then?

I'm just a very timid, whimsical, and shy piglet. You have no reason to be afraid of anything I say.

I don't understand what you are saying. Are you saying that I should take things more seriously? I have no monsterous ideas for the matter.

Why would you be concerned about your existence on these forums? Now, I'm somewhat afraid of some conspiracy...

But, doctor, I get along with my monsters just fine. We have a pact of truce. I leave them alone and they leave me be too. I've accepted my disagnosis. :lol:

Here's the almighty flower for good dreams: :flower:

Being "aware" that one is dreaming is interesting in the sense that it is an example of meta-thought, thought upon thought. — Marcus de Brun

I'm interested in hearing more about this. Is it some inverted infinite regress? Or knowing the limits of one's world and then stepping forward?

Yup. I haven't done hallucinogens, but what friends have told me about the experience sounds similar to an experience of clear-mindedness that also corresponds to the lucidity of a dream that feels very real. — Noble Dust

Never really done them also. Just tried a mushroom once and that was too overwhelming. Dreams allow me to relax and just let things go as they do. There's nobody judging me or thinking if I will do something stupid and such. My experience with hallucinogens (albight once), was in some sense a realization of how limited and unfree, as I human being, that I am.

These personal dreams are so precious and interesting. When I read your account, I'm interested, but I know that the account you're describing is something so deeply personal and almost weird; even to you yourself. This is the thing that gives such an elegant beauty to dreams; this embarrassing quality. — Noble Dust

Since we're talking about dreams, I also had a special dream about depression. I had a dream that a giant sea creature or some octopus was in this lake I was visiting. It was a strange lake because everything seemed to be black and white. I approached this lake, and the monster grabbed me and was trying to drag me down into the deep with it. I realized that the only way to overcome this monster or 'defeat' it, was through waiting until the water evaporates and 'suffocates' the octopus. Yeah, deep indeed. Nowadays, I throw some food at the monster from a safe distance, and we kind of live happily together. :mask:

It's true that we've grown distant in terms of physical space; but we remain essentially best friends; or, he remains my best friend. He's married, though, so she's his best friend now, I guess. But the emotion of the dream had nothing to do with that at all. It was way, way deeper than that. It was something foundational. — Noble Dust

I guess, dreams can guide you. It sounds like the dream was affirming what was inevitable, that your brother now has another family that he has to tend to... Not sure, just my gibberish on the matter.

I agree. Dreams feel more real than waking life. — Noble Dust

Sometimes, I intentionally sleep more than 10 hours a day, because I like my dreams so much, haha.

I prefer Spinoza to solipism. — Marcus de Brun

What does that mean?

When there is more than one person in the therapy, psychoanalysis generally begins to fail. — Marcus de Brun

Hurrah, solipsism!

Schopenhauer's 'Will to Will'. — Marcus de Brun

Can you expand on this Marcus?

At the risk of being laughed off the forum, I'd say that it suggests that the real world is less than we make it out to be. — Noble Dust

I can relate. I feel as though the mind is much more compartmentalized during waking reality, whereas during a dream everything has the chance to emerge into one's conscious aspect of the mind.

I have a certain amount of reverence for dreams. I had a profound dream a long time ago about getting lost on the trip to the peak of the "mountain", whatever that may mean to you. In my opinion this mountain, from which I got separated from my family was a sort of journey in life. I found myself wandering in a forest filled with strange ghosts, plants, and whatnot.

What I gathered from that dream was that the shortest way around the mountain was through it, actually tunneling through it. I still have no idea what that could possibly mean. Quantum tunneling?

I have a lot of vivid dreams. I had a dream awhile ago that my brother was standing about a stone's throw away from me. But he was unreachable. Why? — Noble Dust

At risk of misinterpreting you here, and that's just a given, I think it's maybe your dream telling you that you're growing distant from him?

It was just a dream. But was it? — Noble Dust

No, it wasn't *just* a dream. That's what I hate about reality. It demeans and treats these almost lifelike experiences into something trite or illusory, which they aren't. Dreams are magical.

Whatever the psychological explanation is is fine, but it won't satisfy the emotions that accompanied the dream. When I think back to that dream, it's twilight setting, and the love that my brother was sending, and yet his inaccessibility...it's a feeling more powerful than any feeling I've felt in waking life in years. So what does that mean? — Noble Dust

I really wish I knew the answer to this question. These are highly individualistic and personalized messages from the deep-end of your conscious being.

How do you know that you are not simply experiencing disciplined meditation during the process of lucid dreams? — Marcus de Brun

I'm not entirely sure. I feel as though, lucid dreams are the pinnacle of spirituality due to the holistic aspect of the mind unifying with all other aspects of the mind. One is, so to speak, in total immersion with all the aspects of the mind (ID, ego, super-ego?) instead of an artificial separation or suppression of the animistic aspects during meditation and such.

Indeed, thanks for sharing.

I do know that Buddhism treats dreams with a sort of negative connotation of arising due to the undisciplined mind; but, what about lucid dreams? I do know that the Hindu scriptures have another take on the matter; but, am not well read enough to comment on their conception of transcendence or whatnot to the matter.

What do you think it implies?

It could be. One wonders.

Somewhat tangentially, it would be similar to devising a perfect utilitarian calculus. We might come close but never hit that limit.

Found it.

Can someone help me find a PDF or ebook version of the following book?

https://www.amazon.com/Philosophical-Analysis-Twentieth-Century-Dawn/dp/069112244X

Thanks.