You mean like law or business ethics?

Applied Ethics.

That could still be law or business ethics :lol:

@alcontali, it's almost like you're vaguely characterizing capitalism?

free enterprising → $s → power → influence (conspire?) → maintain (free enterprising etc) → ...

it's almost like you're vaguely characterizing capitalism? free enterprising → $s → power → influence (conspire?) → maintain (free enterprising etc) → ... — jorndoe

We have known for a long time now that capitalism is not the same as free enterprise.

That confusion was deliberately introduced. Capitalism is about having two classes of people in the economy: the class that owns the means of production and the class that sells labour to them. What does that have to do with "free enterprise"? Capitalism is much more like feudalism, where the nobles owned the land, and the serfs worked it with their labour.

The funny thing is that the so-called defenders of labour, i.e. the trade unions, have long ago been co-opted to defend capitalism.

The trade unions want all employment in the economy to be funnelled through wage-slave contracts between capitalist corporations and the thoroughly individualized workers whom they would pretend to represent. The trade unions defend that view with deceptive and manipulative messages claiming that "Your wage-slavery is good for you". The trade unions want to prevent at all cost that employees, who are dependent for work and income on their employers, would become more autonomous or even self-employed.

It is the wage-slave system that is the corner stone of capitalism.

It also allows the government to collect lots of taxes at the source. That is what tremendously increases government power. In countries where people are generally not wage slaves, the government has way less power and way less money, which makes the government also way less intrusive.

By collecting your income as a salary, you perpetuate this system of wage slavery. I never do that. I have always invoiced for whatever I sold. Since switching to bitcoin, I also refuse to accept payments into a bank account. By accepting that kind of payments, you perpetuate the system of bank slavery.

I strongly believe that "the most intolerant wins".

You change the world, bit by bit, by being stubborn, intransigent, intolerant, and recalcitrant. You win by defeating the adversary in nay saying. Never listen to any manipulative or deceptive messages, and always repeat your nonnegotiable position. That is how you make the other side cave in; or else, you just move on to the next potential trade. Don't look back.

applies ethics is pretty broad and it should go without saying, it isn’t the same as a masters in business ethics. It could be, but it’s not and I don’t know why you find this funny.

it isn’t the same as a masters in business ethics. It could be, — Mark Dennis

It's funny because, actually, business ethics is a kind of applied ethics, as you should know (?).

And as broad as applied ethics can be, presumably you would have had to narrow it down in some fashion or another by the end of your studies.

There are schools that have applied ethics degrees:

https://lmgtfy.com/?q=applied+ethics+degree

I realize that. But in the course of a master's degree in any field you'll narrow your research down to a specfic project by the end, even if you did start out with a broad education.

Notice there are no master's theses titled "applied ethics: a broad and general analysis of all that might apply."

And he was definitely wrong suggesting business ethics is not always a branch of applied ethics.

So you’re annoyed that I didn’t tell you what my thesis was about? Also it isn’t wrong to say that not all business ethics is applied ethics because first you have to agree that all of our business ethics is actually ethical in the first place.

So, I could lie and say that a few business ethics classes amount to a masters in applied ethics (it doesn’t) just to satisfy your preconceived notions or I could just tell you that applied ethics is really broad because it is.

The question was what level of education do you have? Not; what was your masters thesis about? I don’t really have time to sort out your trust issues.

Methinks the Mark doth protest too much.

Far from being annoyed, I'm rather amused. What does this have to do with trust? I never invoked trust. I was just curious what your specialization was, and then I pointed out an error in your post.

But the case does get curiouser and curiouser. Now you're claiming studies in business ethics are not a branch of philosophy because not all people agree that all business practices are ethical? Huh?

That's like saying studying socialism is not part of political theory because not all people agree that it's a viable system. Or like saying pro-life positions are not part of the study of ethics because not everyone agrees with them.

Yeah, your thesis is going to be on something more specific, but the degree would be in Applied Ethics. You didn't ask him what his thesis was on, though.

I've been asking him what he specialized in. Same dif.

you never asked me what it was on and I never told you? Where have you asked that?

No I’m hinting at what I believe. You really need to read what is being said more carefully. You’re using false equivalences and you’re suspiciously trying to dig up identifying details on me. I’m not telling you what I specialised in as within five minutes you’ll look it up and learn my identity.

Does a masters in applied ethics include classes on business ethics? Yes. Do I have to agree with everything said in that class? No. Did I specialise in business ethics? No. Your questions are answered.

You’re using false equivalences — Mark Dennis

Like what?

Does a masters in applied ethics include classes on business ethics? Yes. — Mark Dennis

Qed.

Do I have to agree with everything said in that class? No. — Mark Dennis

As is your prerogative. Does your agreement with the class determine whether it is a branch of applied ethics? Nopity nope nope.

you’re suspiciously trying to dig up identifying details on me — Mark Dennis

That's all projection on your part.

Drop it, please. It's not the "interrogate Mark Dennis" thread.

For the love... I'm not interrogating anyone. I asked a simple question and then pointed out that he's wrong about business ethics, and continues to say incorrect things about it. What constitutes business ethics might belong in another thread, but it hardly is an interrogation to disagree with someone about that.

Everything else implied by persons other than myself in this thread about my intentions is just projection.

What constitutes business ethics might belong in another thread, but it hardly is an interrogation to disagree with someone about that. — Artemis

Fine, we'll leave that for another thread then.

yes, I’ve clearly been projecting that I want to know who you are this whole time. Get a life. I’m not letting you bait me into showing you my certifications and you can believe whatever the hell you want to believe.

you bait me into showing you my certifications — Mark Dennis

I never asked for them. But you're still wrong about business ethics.

Okay, font of all grounding knowledge. Let us all bow to your opinion on what is right and wrong.


“You mean like law or business ethics?” No, it is a Masters in Applied ethics. It’s not the same degree as business ethics. It’s not wrong to say they are two different certifications.
What I actually said: “it isn’t the same as a masters in business ethics.” because they are two different certifications. However I never once made the claim that they don’t relate to each other. Not once. You are saying I’ve said that, but I never said it once. Copy and paste exactly where I said “they don’t relate to one another.” They aren’t the same certification is what I am saying and it is all I ever claimed to say. So where are you getting these notions that I’m saying wrong things about these fields as a whole? Words into my mouth the entire time and the entire argument you’re making is at this point comically illogical.

“And he was definitely wrong suggesting business ethics is not always a branch of applied ethics” Yeah it would have been wrong. If I said that. Fortunately what I actually said was they aren’t the same degree.

If you want to have a discussion about how fields relate to each other and how all business ethics are attempts at applied ethics. Fine. But you do not get to lie and say I said this or that, especially when I can just go back and quote myself. READ WHAT PEOPLE ARE WRITING PROPERLY.

Hah, I can't believe I am the only one so far to have owned up to possessing no philosophical education. Of course, if this counts as education...

I have found Nassim Nicholas Taleb's Incerto series of books a really good read: "Black swan", "Antifragile", "Fooled by randomness", "Skin in the game", ... I have also read many of his blog posts. His focus is on epistemology, i.e. the question, "What is knowledge?", always centred around, and starting from the question of how we deal with randomness. — alcontali

Technically a minor but only one credit short of a major, with all core courses, so I voted for bachelors :)

However I never once made the claim that they don’t relate to each other. Not once. — Mark Dennis

Except here:

Also it isn’t wrong to say that not all business ethics is applied ethics because first you have to agree that all of our business ethics is actually ethical in the first place. — Mark Dennis

But you do not get to lie — Mark Dennis

And not to split hairs, but an accusation of lying again implies you know intent. You don't know my intent and have been baselessly accusing me of all sorts of ill-will from the get-go here.

The irony is that you're telling me I'm putting things in your mouth when you've done almost nothing but ascribe to me thoughts and goals and predispositions that you could really not logically infer from my posts.

While technically not education per se, as a formal discipline, I tend toward being instructed by a particular kind of philosophy, rather then educated in it generally.

Hah, I can't believe I am the only one so far to have owned up to possessing no philosophical education. — SophistiCat

I'd own up to barely remembering a crapload of stuff, if that counts.

“Also it isn’t wrong to say that not all business ethics is applied ethics because first you have to agree that all of our business ethics is actually ethical in the first place.” Okay, so are you saying that trickledown, middleground and trickleup economics are all ethically valid just because they are all attempts at applied business ethics? Or can we debate which of the three options is more ethical? If we can debate them, then how is it wrong for me to suggest that I don’t believe they are all ethical? There is a distinct difference between saying something is an attempt at an ethical business model and saying it actually is ethical.

If you’re not inferring I’m lying then why the interrogation and why aren’t you putting anyone else here under scrutiny? We both know full well you’re entire argument is a veiled ad hom attack for no other reason than to troll someone whom you 1, know nothing about, 2, can verify absolutely nothing about. If you weren’t inferring this then why the 3rd degree and the unfounded skepticism?

I'd own up to barely remembering a crapload of stuff, if that counts. — Terrapin Station

:up:

I did two years of philosophy as part of a four year bachelor of arts. Units in philosophy of science, early modern philosophy, Pre-socratics, David Hume, logical positivism, among other things (although ultimately I majored in comparative religion).

Looking back philosophy of science was a great class - started with Alan Chalmers' 'What is this thing called science'? Also studied Kuhn, Polanyi and Feyerabend. I didn't realise the significance of these thinkers until much later in life. I never did a unit in Kant's CPR, which I regret, although I've read quite a bit of it since. (Incidentally, noticed a scathing book about Kuhn last year.)