Maybe I do, maybe I don't. Since I've not offered anecdotal evidence, it's once again irrelevant!

@Benkei Just disingenuous nonsense.
Rumbled.

You've said all this already about a thousand times. — Foghorn

You asked me a question, and I answered it.

If Israel stops exercising any control over Palestinians, the result of that is a Palestinian state. This is why I keep asking you if that is what you wish to see happen. — Foghorn

I do, but I think it's the second best option. I do not think that a paranoid ethnostate like Israel is viable to short or long term regional stability. In an ideal world, Israel would become an actual democracy and allow self-determination for all people under its rule. Without an ethnic basis, a single state would simply be one like any other. Whichever solution comes about, it will not be one of design, but one of necessity. In any case, the self-determination of the Palestinian people is not up for someone else to decide, and never has been. Meeting the three goals I outlined does not dictate a clear path forward, nor do I think they ought to.

Mai Khalid Afana, a Palestinian doctor and lecturer was executed a few hours ago by Israel murderers after accidentally being on the "Jews Only" side of the road.

Why am I angry? It's not that I'm angry, but maybe a little perturbed. In a sentence, I'm perturbed at the inability or unwillingness of various posters to even try to entertain or empathize with the Jewish narrative on this issue for even one second. It is their insistence on taking their own perspective -- an outsider's perspective which clearly lacks cultural and religious understanding -- and unquestionably elevating it to the standard of absolute truth without regard for the perspectives and histories of the other parties involved.

You're right, the facts are out there, but maybe there's a little more to it than has been mentioned. Maybe things aren't as simple as you think, and maybe there are better and worse ways to frame criticisms.

EDIT: Gaza and the WB are not the fundamental issues at hand here and are not the fundamental issues to either party except clueless westerns who were born yesterday.

What's disingenuous is people bringing up my character, my ethnicity, the country I live in and who I know. When I point out that that's irrelevant it's an Orwellian turn of phrase to suggest that is disingenuous.

A state with a "Jews Only" street does not require 'understanding'. It requires dismantling.

A state with a "Jews Only" street does not require 'understanding'. It requires dismantling. — StreetlightX

Show me please. Where is this street? Who enforces this policy? Or is this at a border checkpoint and they're trying to speed up the process?

@Benkei See this is just playing the victim.
Your ethnicity and country is not relevant to me.
Your current character and whether you know any people on the ground or anything about the middle Eastern culture is totally relevant. How could it not be?
Your posts smack of reading about a conflict solely from second hand media sources. A terrible way to gauge the actual conflict on the ground.

While we're at it, let's empathise with the Nazis. How terribly humiliated they were after WWI, their economy in shambles and then you explain to me how that's a mitigating circumstance for the Holocaust.

Show me please. — BitconnectCarlos

It's well documented. If 'speeding up the process' means the process of ethnic cleansing, then yes, it speeds up the process.

Yeah, because Israeli Jews are basically Nazis. Why did I waste my words there?

Your posts smack of reading about a conflict solely from second hand media sources. A terrible way to gauge the actual conflict on the ground. — Mystic

Ah, we've denigrated to the point where anecdotal evidence trumps research. Wonderful. I've linked to B'Tselem, HRW, Amnesty and UN reports instead of media reports. So far all you've added is aspersions about my character with no knowledge to go on and no facts about the subject matter at hand provided.

@Benkei And first hand accounts from people who live there mean nothing? Just anecdotes?

Not what I said was it? You think understanding the Jewish narrative, which I've already quite clearly demonstrated I know when we discussed Buber and Wiesel, makes a difference to the crimes they commit. It doesn't.

In what world is it only fair to only discuss the crimes of one side of a conflict?

When it is not a conflict but a fascist occupation. South Africa was not 'in conflict' with its black population. It brutally subjugated them. The Nazis were not 'in conflict' with the European Jews. They exterminated them. Israel is not 'in conflict' with Palestinians. It is subjecting them to state terrorism and settler colonialism.

According to your sources that is true. Not according to mine.

According to reality that is true.

Which of course you would think that you have complete, unfettered access to. Yes, I know. You see and know all.

I knew we'd find common ground eventually.

:rofl:

They're pretty useless yes. And before jumping to conclusions, you still have no fucking clue who I know and don't know in the region and whether I've been there or not.

In what world is it only fair to only discuss the crimes of one side of a conflict? — BitconnectCarlos

Yes, let's discuss the crimes committed by resistance fighters against the Germans. That's really going to make the Nazi crimes much less worse.

Similarly, the crimes of the Palestinians are irrelevant to assess Israeli war crimes.

@Benkei So the subaltern can't speak.
If you have been there and do talk to people,then the fact you ignore testimony renders both points moot,does it not.

Yes, let's discuss the crimes committed by resistance fighters against the Germans. That's really going to make the Nazi crimes much less worse. — Benkei

In the case of the resistance fighters all that violence was carried out in response to blatant Nazi aggression, but what was the initial act of Israeli aggression that you condemn? I want to hear one specific cause that justifies all this violence. There was violence before 1967.

I don't recall too many instances of resistance fighters wantonly attacking Germans civilians however.

your point was moot from the beginning. I've submitted several reports to support my arguments and the facts I've mentioned. All you have "but do you have anecdotal evidence?" as if that's any form of a counter argument.

In the case of the resistance fighters all that violence was carried out in response to blatant Nazi aggression, but what was the initial act of Israeli aggression that you condemn? I want to hear one specific cause that justifies all this violence. — BitconnectCarlos

And Israel's aggression is not blatant because you're under the impression you didn't start it? So as long as I don't throw the first punch I'm in the clear? Are you 6? Because that's the exact argument I get from my daughter when she hurts her little brother "but he started it!"

@Benkei See,your part of the problem. You only want information from certain outlets. And you neglect reports from civilians. Are ordinary people or subalterns refused any say? So you get to play saviour? This elitism is how the whole problem started.

Little man. You're welcome to offer other or additional facts and submit proof why the facts I've shared are false. Until then you have nothing but pathetic posturing. Run along until you have something substantive to add.

@Benkei Ho ho ho! Just a sanctimonious keyboard warrior. Champion avoidance of reality!