All I know is that if I am ever confronted with an armed robber or murderer, I would like to have a gun. — NOS4A2

Sounds reasonable, but I'm not so sure. In the case of an armed robber, having a gun makes you a deadly threat and its presence might cause the criminal to kill you before you kill him/her. It's probably better just to be robbed than significantly increase the risk of being killed. As for murderers, most don't announce themselves and challenge their victims to a duel. They kill unexpectedly. In addition, gun accidents are more common than gun murders. Putting all of that together, it's not clear to me having a gun is more helpful than harmful except maybe in an exceptionally violent environment. My suspicion is we underestimate just how violent our surroundings would have to be for a gun to actually make us safer rather than increase our risk of being harmed.

I can’t disagree with that. At best a gun can serve as an equalizer in such situations, giving the weak and vulnerable an upper hand in the admittedly rare chance violence occurs to them. But of course there is no guarantee of a favorable outcome, and the risks of carrying one is endless.

Any political party suggesting we should infuse our society with deadly weapons to make it safer would be considered morons and immediately lose power. — Baden

And anyone suggesting our government might try to kill us would honestly raise mental health alarm bells. — Baden

The United States corporatocracy is very skilled at getting a large percentage of its citizens to believe anything. The gun manufacturers and their lobbying firm, the NRA, also own their Republicans and the followers. It also fits in nicely with their “Government is the problem” mantra.

We’re also a very frightened country. Abnormally so. Also a product of the corporate media.

In defense of my countrymen, however, the majority of the population nevertheless wants gun control.

I appreciate the ideas but think it's just too late for the US to regulate gun purchase. There are too many weapons already out there in the hands of people. — Olivier5

Americans will always need more guns. Otherwise the gun shops would be out of business. We could prevent some of the shootings years down the road.

And you could also debate the effectiveness of buyback programs.

But again, I think the inconveniences proposed are small. So small, that it's not even worth our time to debate their effectiveness. If you decide to buy a gun on Monday, you might have to wait until Friday to pick it up from the shop. How is waiting a few days destroying the lives of gun owners? I've never heard a real complaint to that.

I suspect a mental health crises. — Moses

With someone like Ted Cruz being an elected official, you might be on to something.

I haven't kept up here, so this may have been discussed upthread. As a child during and after WWII I identified with Cowboys in games of Cowboys and Indians. Imitation six shooters in the form of cap pistols were it seems everywhere. Boys were encouraged to engage in imaginary conflicts, popping away. A few years older and friends and I would have actual bb-gun fights, mimicking what occured in popular war movies. During the Vietnam conflict all kinds of plastic imitation weapons were available for kids - mostly if not all, boys.

Even today all those B&W TV shows of the '50s and '60s, like Gunsmoke, are available and have followers. But I think there's a trend away from games of gun violence, so there is hope a future America will be less inclined to imaginary and actual violence. There's even a chance the 2nd amendment wil be reinterpreted by a future Supreme Court. When little boys have other interests the entire culture might change.

Edit: Whoops, I neglected to include modern computer games that are more violent than the stuff of past generations. Guess we'll see.

Same with climate change, incidentally. Evidently once-in-a-generation storms, floods, wildfires, droughts, and temperatures isn’t quite “rock bottom” enough — Xtrix

An astute observation. I think a lot worse thinks have to happen before (wo)mankind realizes a wrong road has been taken.

Even today all those B&W TV shows of the '50s and '60s, like Gunsmoke, are available and have followers. But I think there's a trend away from games of gun violence, so there is hope a future America will be less inclined to imaginary and actual violence. — jgill

Living here in Texas, I see a lot of adults who like playing cowboy, and identify with the cowboy myths perpetuated by westerns.

Living here in Texas, I see a lot of adults who like playing cowboy, and identify with the cowboy myths perpetuated by westerns. — Relativist

Yes. Guns are part of a culture. Gun people think slaughters are acceptable risks.

All I know is that if I am ever confronted with an armed robber or murderer, I would like to have a gun. — NOS4A2

This is a reasonable statement, and as long as you are a responsible gun owner - I have no problem with you having firearms for self-protection.

The problems are caused by gun owners who are irresponsible, or worse- crazy. That's what gun control measures should address. It would be ideal to seek controls that minimize impact to sane, responsible gun-owners but impede the crazy and irresponsible.

Yes. Guns are part of a culture. Gun people think slaughters are acceptable risks. — Jackson

I suspect they have a mental block - they refuse to see a relation between the proliferation of weapons and gun violence. It's true that mass murderers are mentally deranged, and so they think no further. It is impossible to identify and treat all such potential murderers. Maximizing gun rights assures that some crazies will obtain guns and kill.

Gun people think slaughters are acceptable risks. — Jackson

It's not a risk, it's the goal itself. They want the big scawarry gubberment to be afraid of gun wielders. Well, mission accomplished, the cops were so pussified they allowed a kid to shoot other kids one by one in the face for an hour while they themselves intimidated parents outside the school. Slaughters are not risks they are designed outcomes, not merely acceptable, but desired.

In the meantime, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy for the cops: too scared to do their literal fucking job descriptions, they are reduced to murdering the mentally ill and sleeping women because they're the kind of people who can't unload an AR-15 into a classroom. These are not risks. These are intentions. This is everything going to plan.

https://www.newsweek.com/american-children-shot-dead-more-police-2022-line-duty-school-shootings-gun-crime-1710684?amp=1

According to the Education Week report, there have been 27 school shootings in 2022 and 119 in total since 2018, when they began tracking such incidents.

Literally none of this is an accident. All of this is built-in, all of this is the goal. People need to stop apologizing for this stuff as though these are 'risks'. I was even wrong to say above the cops were scared. They were not scared. It is simply not their job. Their only job is to beat on the weak, that's it. Everyone someone ascribes failed good intentions, and not simply intentions straight-up, they are apologists for mass murder, nothing less.

Yes. Guns are part of a culture. Gun people think slaughters are acceptable risks. — Jackson

If we had conscription and more conventional wars, the number of school shootings would decrease (in the US anyway).

If we had conscription and more conventional wars, the number of school shootings would decrease (in the US anyway). — Tate

The US has a lot of undeclared wars all over the planet.

The US has a lot of undeclared wars all over the planet. — Jackson

Yea, but they fight them with drones.

Anyone know what page my post was transferred to after it was moved from my own topic page?

Mass Shootings Can Be Contagious, Research Shows (Aug 6, 2019)

After Uvalde, mass shootings continue over the weekend across the U.S. (May 29, 2022)

:o And legislators just keep sitting on their hands, as they've done for years. Expect more.

In the days before the shooting, posts featured a photo of a hand holding an ammunition magazine and another photo of two AR-15-style rifles
[...]
The gunman legally bought his weapons soon after his 18th birthday and days before the attack, law enforcement officials told state lawmakers — Texas elementary school shooting: What do we know so far? (May 27, 2022)

The conclusion is the same. I'm not seeing any of my Republican colleagues come forward right now and say, 'Here's a plan to stop the carnage.' So this is just normal now, which is ridiculous. — Cory Booker (May 25, 2022)

Unfortunately the initial post of a discussion doesn't get transferred when discussions are merged. You'll need to just repost it here.

Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau on Monday announced the introduction of a bill that would place a national freeze on handgun ownership across Canada.

"What this means is that it will no longer be possible to buy, sell, transfer or import handguns anywhere in Canada," Trudeau said in a news conference.
"In other words we're capping the market," he added.

If passed, the new anti-gun legislation will fine gun smuggling and trafficking "by increasing maximum criminal penalties and providing more tools for law enforcement to investigate firearm crimes," Trudeau said.

The new legislation would also require that long gun magazines "can never" hold more than five rounds.

"Gun violence is a complex problem, but at the end of the day the math is really quite simple: The fewer the guns in our communities, the safer everyone will be," the Prime Minister said. — CNN

To name a few:

-The man with the golden gun
-Silly guns
-Guns go West
-Top gun
-Gun crazy
The naked gun 2.5
-Guns, God, and government
-Guns of a stranger
-Inspired guns
-6 guns
-Hobo with a shotgun
-Nude nuns with big guns
'Machine gun preacher
-Outlawed guns
-Great guns
-Guns on the run
-Guns of Navarrone
-Sex, drugs, guns
-Guns on a mission
-The savage guns
-Loaded guns
-Stick to your guns
-Four guns go to the boarder
-27 Guns

Etcetera etcetera...

Wouldn't be "End of a Gun" appropriate?

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/china-urges-un-rights-chief-022721476.html

China has called for the United Nations human rights chief to investigate mass shootings in the US, in an apparent effort to shift the focus from allegations of abuses in its far western Xinjiang region. The Global Times made the suggestion in an editorial Tuesday, a day after Foreign Ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian said at a regular briefing in Beijing that the Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights should produce a report on problems the US faces. “The US system is equally incapable, or lacks interest, motivation, and courage, to address these problems thoroughly,” said the Communist Party newspaper, which added that US domestic issues have “intensified its external aggression.”

The world is a parody of itself and children and minorities will die because of it.

As the population gets more numb to mass shootings, then the mass shooters who want publicity will have to pick targets that get over the media barrier. That "ordinary" mass shootings just get into the local news is telling. It's like living in a quite obnoxious groundhog day as the response from the politicians is the broken record repeated again without anything happening.

There's simply something wrong in a society where people find it natural that they should need guns to protect themselves and their family / their property with guns. I don't hunt, so I don't want guns in my house.

If I really need a firearm, I think my government will give me one for free. At least until I'm under 60.

I assume the right to bare arms (as vague as it is) was placed as the 2nd amendment because of fear of the United States becoming an empire like England. But clearly that didn't happen. And England is no longer an empire either. And I think there are more guns than people in the U.S. And maybe 2 million guns for 60 million people in the U.K.?

First off. How did things get this out of hand? And secondly, how much more government redundancy and representation is needed to make Americans feel safe regarding our democracy? More senators per state? More term limits? Ranked choice voting? What can take most of the guns out of circulation?

United States becoming an empire like England. But clearly that didn't happen. — TiredThinker

Hmm... Gore Vidal, Noam Chomsky, Tony Judt and many others have been saying for decades that this did in fact happen and that the numerous client states and enemies of the month and endless wars and incursions around the world, along with the military industrial complex and the Cocacolonization of world culture indicate that the USA is indeed an Empire.

What was Mark Twain's quote after the US subjugated the Philippines? ' America can't have an empire abroad and a republic at home.'

The Ameriguns (2021) by Gabriele Galimberti

Are you allowed to open-carry a flamethrower in the US? :chin:

Next episode reported.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/06/01/us/tulsa-police-incident-active-shooter/index.html

First off. How did things get this out of hand? — TiredThinker

Bat Masterson and others with their tales of the Wild West. Every generation having veterans of a previous war. ???

:mask: Just my two bit(coin)s ...

... the numerous client states and enemies of the month and endless wars and incursions around the world, along with the military industrial complex and the Cocacolonization of world culture indicate that the USA is indeed an Empire.

What was Mark Twain's quote after the US subjugated the Philippines? 'America can't have an empire abroad and a republic at home.' — Tom Storm

:100:

"A well-regulated militia" did not slaughter 19 children and 2 teachers last week in Uvulde, Texas. Or slaughter 10 in Buffalo, New York over a week before. Or 4 yesterday in Tulsa, Oklahoma. "A well-regulated militia" is not the target of any proposed firearms regulations or restrictions. Well-regulated militias are "acceptable risks", not radicalized assholes with readily available, legally purchased military assault rifles with high-capacity magazines full of hollow-point ammo and festooned in kevlar body armor. :death:

There is no "gun debate" in this country; it's been over for a quarter century and the mostly rural, ethno-nationalist, nativist, populists have won, legally stockpiling arsenals for an ever-imminent, 'murican reckoning ... Which Definitely Will Be Televised :eyes: :point:
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/691243
(follow the "demographic crisis" links) :fire:

Next episode reported.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/06/01/us/tulsa-police-incident-active-shooter/index.html — Wayfarer

The scale of mass American gun violence is really, really hard to comprehend. Individual events are one thing but - look at these dates:



https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting