My point relates to the argument in the OP concerning the BBC article. When I say he's a proven abuser, it's a statement of legal fact that's pertinent to that.

But as I've acknowledged:

The British court found that Heard had 'proved' over a dozen cases of abuse by Depp. The American court 'proved' that Heard had lied about at least some of the abuse. Both were civil trials held to a lower standard of proof than criminal trials and they gave somewhat contradictory results. — Baden

Whether he actually 'really' did it or not, I don't pretend to know for absolute sure and I don't think any of us do. I don't have a dog in the fight and I don't think either of them is completely innocent. They both sound horrible to me.

@Hanover My basic point was you can't accuse the BBC of misrepresenting things by ignoring the US verdict when you misrepresent and then ignore the UK verdict when it's presented to you. That just suggests you're being disengenuous.

Karl Stone has zero credibility left anyhow as he didn't even know Depp was found by the UK judge to have assaulted Heard. And that fact destroys his positioning. Or worse, he did know and lied in pursuit of his agenda. So, he's either woefully ignorant or a liar. And anyone who gives him oxygen for, what now given the facts is starting to smell like a misogynistic charade, is being foolish. — Baden

Nice work here.

:flower:

Nothing wrong with dark corners or obscurity....the recesses of life and light, yes?

...

I don't believe Depp was proven to have assaulted Heard
— Tate

Yes, he was in the UK trial. — Baden

If that's how it's viewed in the UK, that's a problem. Whether sexual abuse took place is something that should be decided in a criminal trial to protect the accused.

The way the UK looks at the issue trivializes the whole issue.

I don't believe Depp was proven to have assaulted
— Tate

Yes, he was in the UK trial.
— Baden

If that's how it's viewed in the UK, that's a problem. Whether sexual abuse took place is something that should be decided in a criminal trial to protect the accused.

The way the UK looks at the issue trivializes the whole issue.

...

A judge in one country voted one way, a jury in another country voted the opposite way.

political parasites like karl stone — Baden

You are speaking immoderately in your moderator's role. Bad practice.

when an admin said some mean words to him. — Baden

Which you did. If you want to play on one of the teams, then you can't be an umpire.

The difference between 1960's civil rights - and political correctness is summed by considering MLK's dream that his children will be judged by the content of their character, not the colour of their skin... and paragraphs following — karl stone

@Baden, Karl's explication of political correctness, PoMo, and allied neo-marxism, strikes me as an insightful and succinct summary. You may not agree with his conclusions, but he has demonstrated clear thinking.

it's still on the main page.

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Whether he actually 'really' did it or not, I don't pretend to know for absolute sure and I don't think any of us do. I don't have a dog in the fight and I don't think either of them is completely innocent. They both sound horrible to me. — Baden

The vigor of your attack strongly suggests that you do, indeed, have a dog in the fight.

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have tried to make the distinction between the cause (womens rights for want of a better term) and the politically correct movement. I watched the trial, and created this thread specifically to make the point that politically correct movements - by dint of their dictatorial nature, are deeply problematic and wide open to abuse. — karl stone

I didn't watch the trial, but I lived through the metoo era and was left nervous about the associated cancel culture.

I'd like to see the Depp decision as a balancing event?

the working man, by virtue of having white skin and a penis, is lumped into the oppressor category. This alienation from political representation for a large section of society explains Trump and Brexit; working people voting for Conservatives and Republicans, because the left has made them second class citizens. — karl stone

So it was hurt feelings about being referred to as deplorables and had nothing to do with the shrinking manufacturing sector and people like Trump promising (but not delivering) that they could regain (be great again) their shrinking status, interesting.

America was great before the civil rights movement and when women were barefoot and pregnent?

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it's difficult for me to write in depth about US sensibilities. — karl stone

But it's easy to write shallow nonsense, gotcha. :point:

the left are no longer the party of the working classes — karl stone

Again, Trump failed to significantly effect the American manufacturing sector as prommised. But he did give big tax cuts to the wealthy like himself.

Now go to your room and stay there. We'll call you when you are wanted for something, — Bitter Crank

Two things we expect from you:

• Bitterness
• Crankiness

When you get all "Look at me, I'm all reasonable and stuff," it confuses us.

the left are no longer the party of the working class, but have become a wholly owned subsidiary of the political correctness industry! — karl stone

Stage whisperered: Tucker, is that you?



So this is how you spend your weekends away from Fox.

Depp case could be a transformative moment, but it won't be - because of the nature of political correctness; it requires people believe things, and say things they don't really believe. That's how they get you! — karl stone

One thread of the metoo movement was the idea that anyone who brings an accusation of sexual abuse should be believed automatically. I have to wonder if Amber Heard was partly emboldened to make her claims because of that.

If so, then I would expect a social change of a sort to follow the verdict.

When you get all "Look at me, I'm all reasonable and stuff," it confuses us. — Clarky

You're confused?

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his lies were prefereable to the lie that is political correctness. — karl stone

More shallow nonsense or can you somehow back this up?

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There hasn't been much connection between what is called "the left" and what is called "the working class" for some time. Especially in the US, 'class' terminology has been out of fashion for decades. We are all "middle class" now. What was once the "marxist left" has literally died out.

The "politically correct", neomarxists, and all of the various identity groups from which one hears so much are neither a class nor a political movement. Saying so isn't a criticism. They are social movements, and may or may to be very important. Whatever, they don't fit into "class" categories.

You are misreading Karl. Where Karl Stone lives (UK) "class" is still valid terminology, and people have more awareness of their class status. His views have nothing in common with Tucker and Fox.

I watch a lot of Tucker and this sounds exactly like something he would say. That's all.

Two things we expect from you:
Bitterness
Crankiness

When you get all "Look at me, I'm all reasonable and stuff," it confuses us. — Clarky

Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)

Walt Whitman

It must be sometime after this point she began to play upto the champion of domestic violence role - in association with metoo — karl stone

I think it's pretty clear that all of this is related to me too.