Living on high ground in the Southern Hemisphere will be sustainable for centuries at least so "the Malthusian eschaton" isn't "immanent" everywhere (yet). I had an old Chinese-American friend who was lifelong New Yorker just relocate this past summer to Rivera, Uruguay (a small city on the inland, southern border with Brazil) for similar reasons you mention.

At any rate, catastrophes due to accelerating climate change won't be unsurvivable (uninsurable) for a few decades yet, possibly not to the end of the century. Your concern – alarm – is n't "irrational" though, IMHO, it may be premature.

@OP

First off, it's rather intriguing that your response to the end times is precisely what a person diagnosed with cancer would (decide to) do.

Secondly, I have to say your plan is good but ... not original. You get a gold star nonetheless for confirming human intuitions on how best to deal with our mortality. What I find odd is that with or without a fatal illness/global catastrophe, death is certain and yet to "spend away my savings travelling, extracting what joy and fulfillment in life remains" isn't on your average Joe's to-do list. I guess what I'm saying is everyone's to-do list = bucket list.

Thanks for adding to my vocabulary. I had to look up "eschaton" to see what in the world you are talking about. Now I'm glad I had no knowledge of this word, nor its depressing meaning.

Psychologically, how can we confront this terminal historical moment we have all been thrust into? — hypericin

Don't Google "eschaton". :roll:

Is this irrational of me? Or is this a rational confrontation of what is? Is the collective turning our heads away the true irrationality, the enabler of this crisis? — hypericin

There are always stories of predictions of end times leading people to disrupt their lives to get themselves ready. Then, when the end doesn't come, they're left holding the bag.

Things are going to get pretty bad, and you may get caught up in it. But like cockroaches, a few of us will survive. To fight pessimism, assume you'll be one of the lucky ones. Then our three-eyed, ape-like progeny will inherit a new world.

Did that help?

:sweat:

First off, it's rather intriguing that your response to the end times is precisely what a person diagnosed with cancer would (decide to) do. — Agent Smith

Yes, in both cases the future is seen as an illusion. For cancer it is just the individuals, here it is everyone's, but the effect is largely the same. For me.

. What I find odd is that with or without a fatal illness/global catastrophe, death is certain and yet to "spend away my savings travelling, extracting what joy and fulfillment in life remains" isn't on your average Joe's to-do list. — Agent Smith

Except, it is. We all want to to do the things we've dreamed of, and typically defer these dreams. There will be time, later. All of a sudden, you realize: time is running out.

Well, I don't know. My bucket list is surely going to be very different from my day-to-day to-do list.

Living on high ground in the Southern Hemisphere will be sustainable for centuries at least — 180 Proof

Curious about your source on this.

And it's not like I aspire to mere survival. The world as a whole is the greatest artistic masterpiece there will ever be. It is daily being defiled and degraded, shit smeared on it's canvas. I want to experience a small slice of its beauty before it is completely gone, and its people before their lives are totally consumed by continuous crisis and stress.

Now I'm glad I had no knowledge of this word, nor its depressing meaning. — jgill

Is the collective turning our heads away the true irrationality, the enabler of this crisis? — hypericin

When you have catastrophic loss of animal and insect biomass, ecosystem collapses, extinction rates comparable to historical extinction events, then maybe, just maybe, this time is different.

When you have multiple "Once in a century" weather cataclysms wrecking havoc multiple times per year, and it will only get worse, much worse, then maybe, just maybe, this time is different.

When you have scientists chaining themselves to buildings, the us army predicting it's own immanent collapse, then maybe, just maybe, this time is different.

But, no. Y2K didn't happen, 2011 didn't happen. Therefore, this is just more hype, you can safely ignore it.

before their lives are totally consumed by continuous crisis and stress. — hypericin

Biafra 1967.

You're about half a century late.

...oh, or did you mean Westerner's lives...

But, no. Y2K didn't happen, 2011 didn't happen. Therefore, this is just more hype, you can safely ignore it. — hypericin

My point was only that you should have contingencies in place in case the world as we know it doesn't end.

I feel about the same way, dystopia sits just around the corner, parts of the world allready living it (an industrial giant like China springs to mind). However it also feels rather inevitable ("home is where our rockets could potentially bring us"), especially so because the elite minority of powermongers wont take reason for an answer and wont answer to anyone but themselve's.

It is hard to look the other way, depressing even when not being able to do so.

China — Seeker

A contradiction right under our noses! A valiant attempt still. Hats off to the ones who look for the statue of Liberty in Pyongyang! :cool:

It is hard to look the other way — Seeker

You can't if you have 11 heads like Avalokietsvera. :snicker:

It is hard to look the other way — Seeker

You can't if you have 11 heads like Avalokietsvera. — Agent Smith

Or when not having a head at all for that matter.

Is this irrational of me? — hypericin

My sense of rationality is that we strive to make the best of our lives within the context of our particular personal and environmental constraints. If you are living in a rich country with a job and/or significant savings and in good health, you're likely under far fewer constraints and have far more opportunity than the majority of your fellows. The likelihood of this changing much within the next couple of decades seems very low. Deliberately introducing new constraints, psychological or otherwise, to ensure you are miserable enough to match your fears for the world does seems irrational to me.

Psychologically, how can we confront this terminal historical moment we have all been thrust into? — hypericin

Loaded question. There's nothing necessarily to confront, psychologically. Focus on the locus of your control and control what you can. What's beyond that is beyond it, period.

It is hard to look the other way — Seeker

You can't if you have 11 heads like Avalokietsvera.
— Agent Smith

Or when not having a head at all for that matter. — Seeker

N/A?

When you have multiple "Once in a century" weather cataclysms wrecking havoc multiple times per year, and it will only get worse, much worse, then maybe, just maybe, this time is different. — hypericin

And here is sciences biggest problem, there is only a short period of recorded history. Something that is today "Once in a century" might very well have been a common thing 20 or 100 centuries ago.

We do know that humans are helping the problem along with their abuse of the environment, but is it really the only cause?

And here is sciences biggest problem, there is only a short period of recorded history. Something that is today "Once in a century" might very well have been a common thing 20 or 100 centuries ago.

We do know that humans are helping the problem along with their abuse of the environment, but is it really the only cause? — Sir2u

If there (ever) had been a species living on this planet (before us) matching atleast our current degree of industrialization and technological advancement, i.e. matching atleast the sheer size and the impact of our combined ecological footprint till thusfar, it would have been more logical to me questioning the plausibility of what the OP is suggesting.

My worldview has grown steadily more eschatological. The future, in my mind, is now measured in mere years. Due to climate change, exponentially worse and more destructive weather events, and ecological collapse, a devastating Malthusian crisis seems imminent. The future is dark and full of dread. I will not have children, I would never impose the burden of beginning a life at this late, late year. I will quit my job soon... why work for a future that has been stolen?... and spend away my savings travelling, extracting what joy and fulfillment in life remains. Alternately, I can devote myself to activism, for whatever good that would do. These are the available paths to me. My status quo is no longer tenable.

Is this irrational of me? Or is this a rational confrontation of what is? Is the collective turning our heads away the true irrationality, the enabler of this crisis?

Psychologically, how can we confront this terminal historical moment we have all been thrust into? — hypericin

I think eschatological thinking tends to be irrational. It's not just one's own death, but the death of everything, the death of being -- the fear of death turned into a myth of the future, then believed inevitable. This sort of fear, as I interpret him, is what Epicurus addresses: Death is nothing to us. We never experience our own death. We fear this death character like it can hurt us, yet we never meet death. So what is this fear really based on? Imagination -- rather than a particular fear of something, it is a general fear that applies everywhere. And given that the future is open, and we know that death is inevitable, it's easy to put our fears of death into the future. And if the world itself is uneasy, or there are forces that would like us to feel like the world is uneasy (because fearful and anxious people are easier to control), then our minds can very easily build up fears of things we'll never meet, fears of things that never are, fears of things which only have control over us because. . . we fear them.

That isn't to say the status quo is acceptable. It's not.

But if we're to do anything about it, I'd say that escapism into small pleasures is a good place to start -- since we have control over such things -- but the future isn't inevitable either. It's just not something we can do all unto ourselves. It's not a moral project which deals with our character or right or wrong, it's a political project which requires enough of humanity to work together towards preventing the worst possible future.

:up:

Deliberately introducing new constraints, psychological or otherwise, to ensure you are miserable enough to match your fears for the world does seems irrational to me. — Baden

Perhaps there isnt any choice in the matter for some of 'us'. Perhaps some of us just cant escape (ignore) the impending feeling of doom sparked by the reality of how we as a species are diminishing our chance(s) for survival on a longer term. Perhaps it is simply a matter of a (build in) biological construct ('instinct'?) kicking in whenever 'it' recognizes potential danger/threats (and not neccessarily on the personal level). What if the irrationality, that what you perceive to be irrationality, is in fact 'the healthy response' in the context of survival.

Is this irrational of me? Or is this a rational confrontation of what is? Is the collective turning our heads away the true irrationality, the enabler of this crisis? — hypericin

I would say abnormal. You're not supposed to feel that way when it comes to thinking about what lies ahead, even though you could be pretty much correct. The reason is because we have an internal mechanism -- stages, if you will -- which protects us from existential anxiety. Apparently, it's in the brain, this protector.

Deliberately introducing new constraints, psychological or otherwise, to ensure you are miserable enough to match your fears for the world does seems irrational to me — Baden

Am I introducing new constraints? Working until retirement is a massive constraint, the expenditure of the bulk of life, and is predicated on having a livable retirement to work for. This presumption is at least called into question now. My state of mind is that I have only a few goodish years left, which is, as points out, the mental state of a terminal cancer patient. The feeling that I am squandering these few precious good years has become overwhelming.

Focus on the locus of your control and control what you can. — Baden

I have no control over grand events, but significant control over how I spend my time. That is why I am preparing to quit my job and make the most of my (in my mind) handful of years left. If it turns out that this cataclysm is a mirage that moves forward in time along with us, and I run out of money, I will just have to go back to work, likely at a significant pay cut, and work longer in life than I would have liked.

Note that I have anxiety disorder, and have since early childhood. So, this looming doom affects me more than others. I wish it didn't, and I'm sure I'm not alone.

Thanks for the reply.

Note that I have anxiety disorder, and have since early childhood. So, this looming doom affects me more than others. I wish it didn't, and I'm sure I'm not alone. — hypericin

I've tried to be open about my depression on TPF -- because I don't want others who I know feel alone to have confirmation of their loneliness. So -- you are not alone. Mental disability is a struggle.

While you are right that it'd be better to spend what you have if the future is bleak, I myself have to remind myself that the future is bleak -- to me. The future, however, is open. We have no knowledge of the future, really. We have good predictions, but it's happened so many times now that basically anything we believe could turn up to be wrong.

That's just a fact, in the sense of a true statement.

But true statements do not motivate us, as human creatures.

What motivates us are... something else that doesn't need to be defined, because defining it will already put it under the rubric of reason, and I'd generalize to say that reason is not our human-creature motivation.

***

In practical and blunt terms, I'd say that your years, no matter how young you are, will not lead to the catastrophe you fear -- unless you happen to choose to cut yourself off from the one source of material income you have. It'd be fun for awhile, and I cannot say I've made good decisions in these matters so this comes from a place of no judgment. But you'd have to ask yourself if you *really* need that "fun for awhile", and are willing to work your way back up after a break, because the collapse is still preventable and probably won't effect people who have decent work right now.

What motivates us are... something else that doesn't need to be defined, because defining it will already put it under the rubric of reason, and I'd generalize to say that reason is not our human-creature motivation. — Moliere

Yes. Reason doesn't ever motivate. Rather, we perform motivated, driven reason. Our drives are animal, dressed up with reason after the fact. Reason is a tool to fulfill our drives.

But... if only it were so simple. We are blessed and cursed with the feedback loop that makes thought possible. Thoughts are cyclical.. we think them, then we react to them, by feeling, and by thinking. And then these feelings and thoughts are reacted to, and so on. These feedback loops can drive an anxious mind to distraction.

the collapse is still preventable and probably won't effect people who have decent work right now. — Moliere

Both quite doubtful imo.

We have no knowledge of the future, really. We have good predictions, but it's happened so many times now that basically anything we believe could turn up to be wrong. — Moliere

Except, we do. Science is all about making models that predict. Predictions are never completely certain, but they can be certain to a high degree. true, climate predictions are quite difficult, as they are modeling a chaotic phenomenon with multiple uncertainties and feedback loops. And yet, they have done well so far... https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2943/study-confirms-climate-models-are-getting-future-warming-projections-right/

Yes. Reason doesn't ever motivate. Rather, we perform motivated, driven reason. Our drives are animal, dressed up with reason after the fact. Reason is a tool to fulfill our drives.

But... if only it were so simple. We are blessed and cursed with the feedback loop that makes thought possible. Thoughts are cyclical.. we think them, then we react to them, by feeling, and by thinking. And then these feelings and thoughts are reacted to, and so on. These feedback loops can drive an anxious mind to distraction. — hypericin

I'm glad we can agree that reason doesn't motivate.

So I'm willing to grant we have knowledge of the future that's good. Else, I wouldn't be tempted to use words like "the collapse" -- I see that as a very real possibility. One which all societies, regardless of their political structure (from, at this point, monarchies, anarchies, theocracies, liberalisms, capitalisms, and socialisms) will have to deal with.

However, I'm going to highlight something I've said before in responding to this:

Both quite doubtful imo. — hypericin

Of course your opinion would say these are doubtful, else your words wouldn't make sense.

But are you willing to bank that doubt to a point where, 5 or 10 years down the line, you're broke and need to remember/relearn everything again to start an entry level position?

Because if I'm right, at least, that's your outcome.

Again, not from a place of judgment. Heh. That's basically what I did. Buuuut.... just noting, while I made that decision, it's still a big one to make. If you're already decided, really, then nothing I say will sway you, just as it didn't sway me.

I'm not decided, which is really why I posted. Why did you do it? Where did you go?

I can do some remote work to make up for some budgetary deficitst, so it's possible I can travel indefinitely.