How are you defining anger?There's nothing intrinsically wrong with anger. As with other emotions, it's about excess, deficiency and bad influence.
So, you're not talking about sexual desire, right? I mean, the night my son was conceived, I wouldn't call what I felt for my wife "lust".I find that hard to believe. But sure, that's more or less what I meant. Lust. It's a strong desire for something, isn't it? We both know what lust is - no point pretending otherwise. We're not speaking French. It can be overwhelming. A lust for sex, power, revenge... — Sapientia
Hmm. I don't know. Consider this....But that has nothing to do with what I was talking about. I was talking about the typical porn video you'll find from a legitimate porn site. Not some imagined hypothetical scenario or an extreme case or anything illegal. — Sapientia
LEXINGTON, Ky. (March 25, 2010) − You have to start with acknowledging and understanding the reality of a problem before you can fix it, according to University of Kentucky philosophy professor Natalie Nenadic.
Morehead State University philosophy professor Karen Bardsley will discuss just what is real and what is not in a talk titled "Pornography and the Power of Images" at 4 p.m. Friday, March 26 in Room 228 of the UK Student Center.
Bardsley specializes in the philosophy of film, combining the concepts of aesthetics, cultural theory, cognitive science and the philosophy of mind and perception.
Bardsley's point is a simple one: film is powerful. If films did not enjoy influence, then companies would not dish out millions of dollars for 30-second Superbowl advertisements. And the pornography industry would not make billions of dollars annually.
"Most viewers insist that they are well aware of the difference between film and reality and that they aren't hopelessly manipulated by the film images they view," Bardsley has said. However, there is a clear relationship between images and viewers.
"The effects of pornography are real," said Nenadic. "And an important step in understanding that is through talks like Professor Bardsley’s."
Bardsley will discuss some of the latest research on how moving images shape the perceptions, behavior and beliefs of viewers, especially with regard to pornography.
Nenadic is teaching a graduate course at UK this semester called "Modernity, Pornography and Sex Equality." "Professor Bardsley’s talk will be a great addition to my class, but it will also appeal to a wide audience," she said.
Nenadic feels that pornography plays a part in the objectification and mistreatment of both women and children."A lot of pornography involves digital recordings of actual sexual abuses, and pornography as a whole teaches men that sexual abuse and exploitation of women is normal," she said. "It portrays women as enjoying this kind of treatment and shows it as a form of sexual liberation. Well, philosophy can say, 'this is wrong.'"
As well as publishing articles and giving numerous talks on this topic, Bardsley has co-edited a book on the nature of creativity and has presented on a wide range of philosophical topics, including environmental ethics, the nature and value of philosophy and the importance of academic freedom.
"Pornography is not about what we traditionally understand as sex education nor does it portray some sort of sexual equality. These are major misconceptions that are widely believed," said Nenadic. "We need philosophy to help us understand and name it properly. When you take seriously most women’s experiences of pornography, you get a clearer grasp of what it is, which can help us come up with practical and more effective solutions to the problem."
Nenadic hopes that attendees will come away with more than just the facts from Bardsley's lecture. "Philosophy is a major part of this discussion," said Nenadic. "In philosophy, you think about finding meaning in your life. How do you disentangle yourself from something so pervasive? You have to acknowledge it."
For more information on Bardsley's talk, please contact Nenadic at nataliedotnenadicatukydotedu.
Assuming, for the sake of argument, that we agree that a majority know they have a choice... what about those who don't know they have a choice? — anonymous66
Assuming, for the sake of argument, that we agree that a majority know they have a choice... what about those who don't know they have a choice?What do you hope to achieve by introducing these specifics? They are game changers, for me at least, so any conclusion you draw can't be used to support a general conclusion about porn or porn actors, the majority of whom do know about and have access to alternatives. — Sapientia
I mean what I said. With due respect, please don't play dumb. — Sapientia
That's very different from the kind of typical case that I had in mind, so any conclusion you try to draw from any answer that I provide can't just be transferred over to other cases or generalised. For that reason, I see little point in answering. I'm not arguing that there can't be exploitation and really awful circumstances which in effect leave one with no choice. I thought that this was a discussion about porn in general. — Sapientia
What do you mean when you say, "The normal way?"How are you defining lust? — anonymous66
The normal way. — Sapientia
Imagine this scenario. A child is born to a prostitute. Her mother has always been a prostitute, she is paid $1 a year, lives in squalor, has one change of clothes.. you get the picture, it's an awful life. The child grows up believing that type of life is normal. When she becomes an adult, she choose to become prostitute herself, and allows people to create videos of her engaging in sex. Lots of people get satisfaction from watching her perform those sex acts. She gets paid $1.50 (she get 50 cents more a year in return for letting them make videos) a year, and has virtually the same quality of life as her mother. Was her career choice actually a choice?It's their career choice, they're getting paid, and lots of people get satisfaction from it. — Sapientia
Lust, per se, does not seem wrong to me at all, but only in certain contexts or in excess. — Sapientia
The better question is: What is pornography people? How is it virtuous? — TheWillowOfDarkness
Edited to add: I think I like this wording better: I can even imagine a world in which porn expresses the best of humanity... Perhaps a better world might be one in which porn exists, but that porn inspires us to be better peopleI can even imagine a world in which porn expresses the best of humanity... Perhaps a better world might be one in which porn exists, but that porn shows us how to be better people.
Okay, you become aware that there is something that is correlated with a reduction in rape and other sex crimes, divorce, std's, teen sex, and that increases prosocial behavior... what doubts could you/do you have about said thing? — anonymous66
I can see the "married porn" videos now. Lawfully married husbands and wives arrive home after collecting one child from pre-school, taking another to dance class, a third to hockey practice, a fourth to soccer; a trip to the store. By 7:00 everyone is irritable from hunger and even microwaved food takes some time. Then there are dishes, cleaning, homework, laundry, calls from the office, a couple of tantrums (dramatized by the youngest kid) and around 11:00 (on a good night) the parents go to bed. Great sex now? Are you out of your fucking mind? They lurch into sleep, (if they can) and the alarm goes off at 6:00 at the latest. Another day. — Bitter Crank
The trouble with porn, for many who are watching purely for excitement, is it gets boring. After seeing two people fucking, watching another couple do so is less interesting. With each iteration, it only gets more and more beige. — TheWillowOfDarkness
I would say that it likely has the causal arrow reversed, to the extent there is a causal relationship between the belief that "all consensual sex is fine" (which I doubt is even a widespread view, as, for instance, adulterous sex can be consensual and yet frowned upon) and the societal acceptance of porn.I think it is more likely the case that more relaxed social mores regarding sex drives the societal acceptance of porn than vice-versa. — Arkady
From this article:rates of syphilis, gonorrhea, teen sex, teen births, divorce, and rape have all substantially declined.
Contrary to the critics’ assertions, as porn consumptions increased, so did emotional closeness to others.
— anonymous66
Where did this information come from and how was it obtained?
The rate of increased diagnoses of syphilis, gonorrhea, and chlamydia has been slow but steady--when viewing the whole nation. When considering race, location, and age, we find disparities between gay men and straight men, between blacks and other races, and between southerners and other regions. Rates of STDs are highest among blacks, southerners, and gay men, and there are significant disparities which porn wouldn't seem to account for, one way or the other. If one examines the history of diagnoses at specific clinics, one might see more up-and-down movement in diagnoses.
What is most related to the levels of STDs in the population is the effectiveness of outreach, treatment, and follow-up. Has anyone collected actual data about cases who looked at, or did not look at porn? I doubt it. — Bitter Crank
* Sexual irresponsibility has declined. Standard measures include rates of abortion and sexually transmitted infections. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), since 1990, the nation's abortion rate has fallen 41 percent. The syphilis rate has plummeted 74 percent. And the gonorrhea rate has plunged 57 percent.
* Teen sex has declined. The CDC says that since 1991, the proportion of teens who have had intercourse has decreased 7 percent. Teen condom use has increased 16 percent. And the teen birth rate has fallen 33 percent.
* Divorce has declined. Since 1990, the divorce rate has decreased 23 percent.
* Rape has declined. According to the Justice Department's National Crime Victimization Survey, since 1995, the sexual assault rate has fallen 44 percent.
Arrival of the Internet: More Porn, LESS Rape
Before the late-1990s when the Internet revolutionized access to information, porn was available in books, skin magazines, rented videocassettes, and at the limited number of seedy theaters that screened X-rated movies. But with the arrival of the Internet, millions of porn images and videos were suddenly just a few clicks away for free. As a result, porn quickly became one of men’s top online destinations and porn consumption soared.
If the anti-porn activists are correct, if porn actually contributes to rape, then starting around 1999 as the Internet made it much more easily available, the rate of sexual assault should have increased. So what happened? According to the Justice Department’s authoritative National Crime Victimization Survey, since 1995, the U.S. sexual assault rate has FALLEN 44 percent. For more on this, see my previous post, Does Porn Cause Social Harm?
Clearly, the anti-porn activists are wrong. Porn doesn’t incite men to sexual violence. It looks more like a safety valve that gives men an alternative outlet for potentially assaultive energy. Instead of attacking women, men who might commit that crime can masturbate to unlimited amounts of Internet porn.
The Czech Republic: More Porn, LESS Rape
Another natural experiment involves the political changes in Eastern Europe. From 1948 to 1989, the Communist police state then known as Czechoslovakia made possession of pornography (including relatively tame publications like Playboy) a criminal offense punishable by prison. As a result, porn was largely unavailable to Czech men. But when Communism collapsed and the democratic Czech Republic emerged, it legalized porn, which became easily and widely available. So what happened to women’s risk of sexual assault?
Using Czech police records, American and Czech researchers compared rape rates in the Czech Republic for the 17 years before porn was legalized with rates during the 18 years after. Rapes decreased from 800 a year to 500. More porn, less rape.
In addition, the legalization of porn was associated with a decrease in another despicable sex crime, child sexual abuse. Under Communism, arrests for child sex abuse averaged 2,000 a year. After porn became legal, the figure dropped by more than half to fewer than 1,000. More porn, fewer sex crimes.
Denmark: More Porn, LESS Rape
In the 1970s, Denmark relaxed restrictions on pornography, and the country quickly became a center of porn production. Researchers compared arrest rates for sexual assault before and after the change. When porn became more easily available, allegations of rape decreased.
Japan, China, Hong Kong: More Porn, LESS Rape
Around the millennium, partly in response to the availability of Internet porn, Japan, China, and Hong Kong relaxed laws that restricted its availability. In all three places, as porn became more easily available, sex crimes decreased.
Compared with Most Men, Rapists Consume LESS Porn
UCLA researchers surveyed recollections of porn use among law-abiding men and a large group of convicted rapists and child sex abusers. Throughout their lives, the sex criminals recalled consuming LESS porn. More evidence that porn is a safety valve. Instead of committing rape and pedophilia, potential perpetrators find a less harmful outlet, masturbating to porn.
Pornography DOESN’T Isolate Men
As evidence mounted that if anything, porn helps PREVENT sexual assault, porn critics changed their tune. Instead of blaming X-media for harming women, they claimed it harms MEN by confining them in a dark prison of masturbatory isolation that destroys their interpersonal relationships with others.
English researchers gave 164 men standard psychological tests of interpersonal connectedness to determine their emotional closeness to—or distance from—the important people in their lives (spouses, family, friends). Then the researchers surveyed the men’s porn consumption.
Contrary to the critics’ assertions, as porn consumptions increased, so did emotional closeness to others. Far from providing an escape from close relationships, the researchers suggested that porn use may signify a “craving for intimacy.”
Diamond, M. et al. “Pornography and Sex Crimes in the Czech Republic,” Archives of Sexual Behavior (2011) 40:1037
Diamond, M. “The Effects of Pornography: An International Perspective,” in Pornography 101: Eroticism, Sexuality, and the First Amendment, edited by J. Elias et al. Prometheus Press, Amherst, NY, 1999.
Diamond, M. and A. Uchiyama. “Pornography, Rape, and Sex Crimes in Japan,” International Journal of Law and Psychiatry (1999) 22:1.
Goldstein, M. et al. “Experience with Pornography: Rapists, Pedophiles, Homosexuals, Transsexuals, and Controls,” Archives of Sexual Behavior (19971) 1:1.
Kutchinsky, B. Pornography and Rape: Theory and Practice? Evidence from crime Data in Four Countries, Where Pornography is Easily Available,” International Journal of Law and Psychiatry (1991) 14:47.
Kutchinsky, B. “The Effect of Easy Availability of Pornography on the Incidence of Sex Crimes: The Danish Experience,” Journal of Social Issues (1973) 29:163.
Poipovic, M. “Pornography Use and Closeness with Others in Men,” Archives of Sexual Behavior (2011) 40:449
If you came across a herd of elephants, all dead including the babies, machined gunned by poachers simply for the ivory, the proper emotional response is anger and a desire to see the poachers brought to justice. — Marchesk
rates of syphilis, gonorrhea, teen sex, teen births, divorce, and rape have all substantially declined.
Contrary to the critics’ assertions, as porn consumptions increased, so did emotional closeness to others.
The pro-porn argument:
Why should we completely censor the fantasies that allow people to explore their desires and interests from a safe distance? Why not allow porn to be an opportunity for minority directors and actors to create media that does not stereotype or degrade them? In a previous Ms. Blog article, pornography scholar Mireille Miller-Young says,
Surely there’s racism in the porn industry. It affects how people of color are represented and treated, but there are counter-stories–especially among women of color who are creating and managing their own product. This doesn’t get enough attention.
While acknowledging that porn the way it is now can sometimes perpetuate harmful ideas about sex and further objectify the bodies of women and minorities, many do not believe that this means that porn is inherently wrong. There is an upswing of “female-friendly” videos that depict sex as a shared and mutually enjoyable experience rather than purely a male pleasure-focused activity, as well as instructional pornography videos that show viewers how to safely participate in fun and consensual sex. A quick Google search can lead pornography consumers to safe and informative websites, and there are many books written on the topic of feminist porn.
And at what point do we stop holding the media accountable for how people interpret pornography? Following the same logic about how porn should be banned because of the potentially harmful and misleading information that it presents, shows like SpongeBob SquarePants would have been cancelled because of children who drown looking for the characters. Mary Poppins would have been banned because she encouraged me to try flying with an umbrella when I was eight years old. Why, then, is porn held so accountable for the way people think about and act out sex? Why are the squeamish school systems and parents not held responsible for teaching children and young adults to respect each other’s and their own bodies? Why does the responsibility for teaching the nation’s youth about sex fall to strangers on the Internet?
Many anti-pornography feminists believe that porn is an apparatus of the patriarchy that reduces women to sex objects and is a part of the systematic oppression and degradation of women, but this claim robs the performers of control over their bodies and shames them for participating in an industry that provides them with financial stability and the opportunity to explore their sexuality. As feminist writer Ellen Willis once said, “The claim that ‘pornography is violence against women’ was code for the neo-Victorian idea that men want sex and women endure it.”
Why do people assume that the women performing in porn are not enjoying it themselves? Claims that the women who perform in porn are being coerced or indoctrinated into the patriarchy simply belittle women and question their right to bodily autonomy. By hating porn and considering it to be a shameful pastime, profession or method of achieving sexual pleasure (both as performers or consumers), we force performers into the role of being lesser humans and hurt efforts to empower or legally protect performers.
The problems within pornography stem from larger patriarchal frameworks, so while the industry may require drastic improvement, pornography cannot be blamed for sexism and violence—particularly when there are institutionalized policies that repeatedly shame and debase the female body. Rather than blame pornography or attempt to censor it, we can think critically about the way it is packaged and sold as a commodity for men rather than as a universally enjoyable and empowering method of exploring sexuality. In order to reform the pornography industry, we must first work to destigmatize it, starting with accepting it as a legitimate method of employment and sexual enjoyment for women.
What I see is that those who argue that porn is not harmful, or no more harmful than other things we allow, are met with the claim "people only want porn because there is something wrong with the way they view morality."The deciding factor for what? Virtually everything is harmful to some degree (trees are nice, but people are killed by falling branches; ladders help us reach otherwise inaccessible heights, but are a source of domestic accidents, etc.).
One could take a dim view of pornography, and yet maintain that the societal costs of squelching free speech and free expression outweigh the benefits of governmental censors clamping down on porn, which is likely virtually impossible anyway, at least without imposing the sort of controls which are incompatible with liberal democracy. Stamping out drug use via the "war on drugs" has been a dismal failure, and yet narcotics are less accessible than porn, as they require the acquisition of a physical substance which must be ingested in some fashion. Porn (as with any other data) can be transmitted purely electronically; it's just information. — Arkady
On the one hand, there is credible evidence that pornography is not harmful to individuals or to society. — anonymous66
I've never heard of it, but I have seen evidence that says the opposite. Porn causes and/or exacerbates addiction to it, general Internet addiction, erectile dysfunction, the break up of relationships and marriages, and the exploitation of vulnerable men, women, and children. — Thorongil
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/all-about-sex/201601/evidence-mounts-more-porn-less-sexual-assaultI'm not arguing that porn is utterly harmless. Some men consume it so compulsively that it interferes with their lives. They need therapy. Some women become distraught when they discover that the men in their lives enjoy porn. They might benefit from couple therapy. And to the extent that porn is a sex educator, it teaches lovemaking all wrong. More about this in a future post.
But the evidence clearly shows that from a social welfare perspective, porn causes no measurable harm. In fact, as porn viewing has soared, rates of syphilis, gonorrhea, teen sex, teen births, divorce, and rape have all substantially declined. If Internet porn affects society, oddly enough, it looks beneficial. Perhaps mental health professionals should encourage men to view it.
Contrary to the critics’ assertions, as porn consumptions increased, so did emotional closeness to others. Far from providing an escape from close relationships, the researchers suggested that porn use may signify a “craving for intimacy.”
Those who feel offended or disgusted by pornography are entitled to their opinion. But they are not entitled to misrepresent its effects on men and society. Porn does NOT isolate men from significant others, nor does it contribute to rape and other sex crimes.