It has philosophical foundations. Philosophy is also a product of human thought in response to human social interaction. Moralities are founded in the perceived welfare of the social unit.So ethics really has no foundation at all? — Astrophel
Exactly. If a rule doesn't apply to current social reality, or is no longer useful in promoting the well-being of the polity, why keep adhering to it? In fact, people don't. Laws usually get struck off the books long after people have been ignoring them and officials ceased to enforce them. It's how a society that actually operates that determines what's good and bad for it. How it usually happens is: social philosophers publish treatises, then journalist popularize their ideas, then people protest - it's the legal machinery that lags far behind."Outmoded" and "counterproductive" confer nothing beyond utility of ethics. — Astrophel
What else could it be? Of course, you have to remember that 'social construction' has its roots in a 250 million-year-old termite mound. We descended from a very long line of social animals, all of which had and have rules of acceptable behaviour. When a species evolves out of a previous one, its abilities, requirements and behaviours change accordingly, an so must its social conventions. When the environment changes, or the social organization gains complexity, its mores are adjusted to the new configuration. The conduct or war is different from the rules of peacetime; what is acceptable in times of plenty becomes a crime in a time of famine.Ethics thus just stands exclusively in the social construction. — Astrophel
Beyond.... to where? Seems a common enough crime to me. Of course, most criminals do not confess voluntarily.The ethical violation of Dostoevsky's Raskolnikov lies beyond breaking a society's rules, don't you think? — Astrophel
But how does one separate what is "merely" said from what has a grounding apart from the mere saying? — Astrophel
Not unless they're handed down from heaven.Ethics gets interesting when we move into the uncertain territories of underlying assumptions. Laws, rules, norms, principles are at best, prime facie compelling. Is there anything in ethics that is more than this? — Astrophel
The question is, is cannibalism, or incest, or any of a number of victimless immoralities, only "bad" because "we" say so? — Astrophel
This why humankind invented specialized language for those subjects in which it's important to communicate precisely: mathematics, musical notation, maritime signal flag code. Scientists and engineers also have standardized terminology in spoken languages.But language is the only place in this universe where something might truly be fixed, made absolute. — Fire Ologist
You were drawing out the inference you made of what I said. Your interpretation.I was drawing out the implications — Antony Nickles
What is the ordinary context? People don't normally come up to one another on the street or at a cocktail party and announce: "I think there is a god." or "I believe there is a god." or "I believe in God." (But I have had people come to my door and ask whether I've been saved.) These statements are normally made in a larger context - the discussion of deity and one's relationship to deity. Before every such statement, there is an expressed or implied question. The question doesn't force a response; the statement points back to a requirement for making it.This is forcing two statements into the same requirements by dictating a question; that is not there ordinary contexts. — Antony Nickles
Might that be why the modern capitalist Christians shy away from him and cleave to Moses? And why the punitive, repressive evangelists prefer the OT?He is the ideal in many ways, if not all ways. So he is potentially something to emulate. — BitconnectCarlos
I found that through internalizing at least some of his teachings the person becomes transformed — BitconnectCarlos
And where did you find such a characterization of language? I believe this is one of those misconstructions through the substitution of similar but not interchangeable words. The words 'slippery', amorphous' and 'ever-changing' do not mean 'irrational'; nor does 'difficult' mean 'unable to be clarified'.The characterization of language as irrational, unable to be clarified, etc. — Antony Nickles
It is subject to imprecise applications and interpretations.That words are sometimes interchangeable; that communication involves difficulty, laziness, manipulation, vagary, and the ultimate possibility that we may reach an impasse on the means of understanding, does not mean that language is relative or imprecise. — Antony Nickles
Not really. In many contexts, they can be used interchangeably without causing any misunderstanding, and people do use them interchangeably, due to custom or manners, even when the same application conveys a somewhat imprecise meaning. Using one in a context where both may apply, and than the other - with the addition of a crucial preposition - does show that they can mean very different things also.[ 'think and 'believe' ] Each has its own separate criteria and contexts in which they apply. — Antony Nickles
Yes, you did.And so here we are mixing up the criteria and context and way in which belief works differently in each sense — Antony Nickles
They're three separate uses - very possibly by three different speakers - in the same context: answering the question: "How do you regard God?"To say “I believe in God” in the sense of an expression is not the conclusion that starts with the other sense of belief as a hypothesis of knowledge (“I think there is a god”). They are two separate uses (senses) with different criteria in different contexts. — Antony Nickles
Nobody's implied that. The statement "I believe in God." is about the speaker's internal conviction of the existence of a particular deity, whereas "I believe God" at suggests either a a personal communication from the deity or a conviction that some text was written by the deity. Neither has anything to do with proof. (Which is pretty much the definition of 'faith'.)nor does that imply that belief as an expression of faith needs to include any proof, — Antony Nickles
Can't report it till you've owned it; can't own it till you claim it. It's very rare for anyone to come in from a downpour, dripping proof all over the carpet say, "I know it's raining since I experienced it."“It’s raining” is not a claim to knowledge; it is a report of knowledge — Antony Nickles
Not exactly a claim to knowledge: that would be "It's raining."In the sense of a guess or hypothesis, I think and I believe are the same. “I think it is raining.” is interchangeable with “I believe it is raining.” In either instance, we go outside and confirm if it is raining or not—they are both a claim of knowledge. — Antony Nickles
Now, why did you change the example? A valid comparison would be of "I think you're mistaken" - where the speaker has some knowledge of the subject, but not enough to be certain the other is wrong - and "I believe you're mistaken." - where the speaker is confident of his own superior knowledge, but too polite to say "You're wrong!".But “I think you are mistaken” is in the sense of a claim to a judgment, while “I believe in God” is an expression of faith or an attitude or a duty. — Antony Nickles
Jesus first came for the Jews but he later sent his disciples out among the nations. — Moses
That's more an accusation that he consorts with the common people. I make it two actual instances of indulgence: the wedding in Cana and the farewell supper. Not a strict ascetic, I agree, but mostly they seemed to be as the fowls of the air, trusting God to feed them, or fasting in the desert or subsisting on a few loaves and fishes or plucking corn along the roadside - on the (gasp!) Sabbath. Cursing the fig tree sounds to me as if he were hungry and pissed off that it had no fruit. (Makes him sound less than divine, that bit.)I dont read Jesus as an ascetic because of passages like Matt 11:19. — Moses
He (if he existed and there's any truth in the gospels) was not interested in other nations - his teaching was exported years after his death. He was concerned with reforming the Judaism of his time. Something like Martin Luther with a state of Christianity that he considered corrupt. Jesus is a singularly Jewish character, no matter that Paul and Christian proselytizers co-opted him and European artists systematically lightened his complexion.I read Jesus without any Christian background (obviously) and I just can't get over the strangeness of the character. — BitconnectCarlos
Or his own, for that matter. Asceticism was a well established practice among the many prophets of the time, as it was also in India, among Buddhist monks.But Jesus never seems to care about his followers' physical life or well-being. — BitconnectCarlos
Sure, they didn't have the same equipment then to determine whether 'life is extinct'. The morgue is kept very cold, and that slows down all biological processes. But it doesn't explain the autopsy incision. Perhaps he actually started showing some signs of life, and they were using peritoneal irrigation to warm him up. They would also have to examine the effects of whatever first aid measures had been applied immediately after the accident.Allegedly, this happened in 1976. — Truth Seeker
That makes me skeptical. The standard post mortem begins with a Y incision: diagonal cuts from each shoulder to the tip of the sternum, then a straight line down to the pubis, or a modified Y, which starts under the ears. And it hast to be a deep incision, so that you can retract the skin flaps and underlying fat for access to the body cavity.He woke up as soon as the first incision was being made on his abdomen. — Truth Seeker
Not guaranteed but required. It's the fundamental requirement for their discipline. Physics is singularly unforgiving, it's almost impossible to drag fanciful beliefs into the work. But a complex science, like medicine and climatology, can be contaminated by philosophical vagaries - especially lucrative ones.the only thing they're almost guaranteed to believe in is the efficacy of learning about the world through observation and experiment. — flannel jesus
Someone could be a definition 1 materialist and not a definition 2 materialist - and vice versa. — flannel jesus
There is a huge gulf between physics and materialism. Physics describes how matter behaves; materialism is the desire to acquire wealth and comfort. How did isms get mixed up with science in the first place?If there's only a narrow separation between materialism and physics, — ucarr
Neither college-anointed nor self-styled philosophers have a monopoly on articulating what their field of study is about.Some scientists are very firm on a big difference between the two fields: Richard Feynmann. Must they wax philosophical when they describe the difference? — ucarr
Science of Philosophy, or philosophy of science? — ucarr
I don't see how. But that's okay, because philosophers catch up with scientific discovery sooner or later, and change their conjectures accordingly.Can scientific truth and philosophical truth contradict each other and yet retain their validity, respectively? — ucarr
Science was never in the service of a "philosophical project"; observation of nature and experimentation is what science does.Does science deviate from the philosophical project when it rolls up its sleeves and gets down and dirty with observation of nature, experimentation, and double-blind testing? — ucarr
Science doesn't equate itself with an ism; it just tries to discover how things work.If science discovers a posteriori the facts of nature, then does it follow that science, being the source of empirical truth, equates itself with materialism? — ucarr
Again, without any ism, real, tangible things and real, observable relationships is what science deals with. Immaterial things are too hard to study.Is every category of science a type of materialism? — ucarr
I never have the slightest idea what philosophy's up to.Does philosophy hold aloof from science within an academic fortress of abstract math and logic? — ucarr
Philosophy doesn't govern science or anything else. It wonders, postulates, theorizes, formulates and advances theories that cannot be tested. Certainly, metaphysics falls within that realm. Philosophers may propose rules, but they don't make rules.If philosophy of science governs scientific practice, then does it follow that philosophy, being the source of the rules, equates itself with metaphysics? — ucarr
Is every category of science a type of physics?Is every category of philosophy a type of metaphysics? — ucarr
And powdered wigs were pretty fashionable in the 18th century. People seemed to get over that fashion.You say 'outre' but panpsychism is pretty fashionable now as far as I can tell. — bert1
The real difficulties come when their knowledge of solutions to immediate crises are rejected by people through their own free will, even when failing to deploy these solutions will lead to definite harm and suffering. — Benj96
Me. I am Castilian. — javi2541997
I didn't think so!Do they all behave in the same way? — Vera Mont
No. Absolutely not. — javi2541997
Oh, I see. Telling the truth about the history of a nation. Can't be helped I'm afraid, especially as Ciceronianus is not my sock-puppet.We already discussed this, Vera... In this thread and another with Ciceronianus. — javi2541997
Who are the inheritors of the crown of Castile? Do they all behave in the same way? Who here has commented on them, negatively or positively?But they quickly spread negative comments on the inheritors of the Crown of the Castile. — javi2541997
It seems like not a just investigation but the typical bias that we see coming from the people of certain societies. — Lionino
People who share your bias with you will accept your opinion as evidence? No doubt.That is an acceptable demand, in court. But if I comment that elderly people drive poorly, people outside the internet will not demand studies on the matter, because they know my conclusion comes not from the authority of a peer-reviewed doctor but from my eyes. — Lionino
I haven't read any and I don't know what a Chick is. Are these tracts representative of all Protestantism? Might the American perspective colour your judgment? I don't know how many people share your perspective, but I do see why you wish to support an accusation against a religion you dislike. Since I dislike them all, I consider all religious intolerance equally intolerable.but if you read enough old Chick tracts, and observe enough of the people who pass them out, — wonderer1
And a wonderfully big, rich book it is! You can fish in it for justification of any damn thing you want to do.Christianity is made up of a bunch of different people with beliefs that exist on a spectrum, but they are all derived from the same scriptures from the same book. — ToothyMaw
What I said was: If you accuse one person, you are expected to show evidence against that one particular person. If you accuse and entire religion, you should be expected to produce evidence that either the doctrine of the religion or the majority of it practitioners are guilty of the transgression. And since I am one person, and you accuse me of doing something in the future, I'd like to see some some evidence that I ever went "but it is just one person!" in whatever context.If evidence is given, you will go "but it is just one person!". — Lionino
I should think being a junkie as close to opting out as you can get this side of suicide.Junkies may opt out too, — 180 Proof
Nobody. People are crazy; when they fall into the sway of religious and nationalist leaders, they act crazier than usual. It's fine to acknowledge that Christian sects are no saner than Muslim ones, and that they have been at one another's throats since long before Martin Luther protested the selling of indulgences https://www.worldhistory.org/article/1414/six-great-heresies-of-the-middle-ages/#google_vignette It's a history site, not a Protestant one.I don't know who's the fault. — javi2541997
But that's no excuse for a smear.Paulicians, Bogomils, Cathars, Waldensians, Lollards, Hussites
All six of these were suppressed by the Church, often resulting in the slaughter of populations which had nothing to do with the heresy, as the Church continued to insist on its spiritual authority as the representative of God on earth.
Is it? By whom? Which particular Protestants are waging what propaganda campaigns? If you accuse someone, you're expected to provide evidence. If you accuse millions of anonymous people, we should just let it slide?The mass propaganda of Protestants against Catholics is well known. — javi2541997
How does the Inquisition suddenly segue into "other crises in Europe"? The persecution of heretics, Jews and Muslims was practiced by all Catholic countries, though it may have been done with more zeal in Spain - possibly due to the legacy of Muslim occupation. That's entirely separate from English, Flemish and German royal families fighting over thrones, or modern nationalists of predominantly Catholic and Protestant countries objecting to Arab immigrants. And it's nothing at all to do with the British occupation of Ireland.Not only to Spanish Inquisition but other recent crises in Europe. — javi2541997
Would I not behave like them if I had their genes, environments, nutrients, and experiences? — Truth Seeker
Of course - you cannot be otherwise.I am agnostic about blaming and praising anyone. — Truth Seeker
No room left for 'human agency' which would be contrary to the entity's all-knowing omnibenevolence. How can such an entity not be the Keeper (caretaker, game warden) of 'the human zoo'? — 180 Proof
I understand there is a lot of debate regarding The Troubles in Northern Ireland, but one of the specific reasons was the critical differences between Catholics and Protestants. They couldn't live together. — javi2541997
I don't blame them for being wishful thinkers. — Truth Seeker