Anyone want to tie the possible/likely longevity of the current Is-Pal peace deal to a possible/likely outcome of the Fed Election? Given the heightened political and social tension being created with the two currently most popular phobias in "mainstream" media?

engaging smile

@Wayfarer,

Yeah, like opting for the cream on stale skimmed milk, precious little and nothing of notable worth. As usual!
We tend to have a talent for getting what we vote for and putting up with it until next time.

@Banno,
"Perhaps the pivotal point.....how scared folks are"

and scared the most of on the day they vote.

What a way to garner votes!

Oh, the heights to which noble Politics aspires.... in its dreams.

still tired smile

@javi2541997,
"That wave (a modern socialist perspective)...spread all over the world with the ... exception of the USA..." Well said, :wink:
(because they don't know what social democracy is)... due to careful editing of the USA education system, myth/ethos etc., they can't abide the thought that hard work will not necessarily improve your life's circumstances and that helping your less fortunate fellow is not a weakness at a nationwide level.

Each to their own!

Tired smile

@Banno,
The 44 page Dutton pamphlet, mentioned 5 days ago (sorry for the tardy backtrack, Life intrudes...again), is long on what needs doing and the "Who bears the blame" ( in the opinion of the Coalition) and, as usual, short on how the Coalition will achieve such....in most instances. A substantive waste of 40 minutes reading and considering unless it's read as a Peter Dutton Revealed/Humanized promo. "Humanized" is probably a reach, more an objective little honored in its achievement.
Interesting point made in Crikey by B Keane.
The question is if the Aust. electorate decides "We won't be fooled again..." Who knows!

Faint smile

@javi2541997,

What is called out or considered in Aus politics as socialist politics has changed over the years.
Once, considered to be the same as communist, its meaning has nuanced in the public's mind more towards social consciousness.
But for some older socialist diehards, it still is about citizens government ownership economics set in a democratic political state.

Swimming against the latest world tide.

Smile

Any new and refreshed thought..... anyone?

@Arcane Sandwich,

Expression of one's meaning by language of opposite or different tendency,especially simulated adoption of another's point of view for purpose of....( fill in your own word or phrase)

A suggestion: self deprecating humour

hopeful smile

Totally unrealistic thought, of course.

sad smile

@Banno,
"Australians do .....socialist policy..."

Disagree to the extent that, lately, that preference seems to be on the decline (or isn't being offered by major political parties capable of seeing it through), at least for large govt ownership/involvement in nation building and maintaining projects that have been allowed to be franchised out to private capital while lowering personal income taxes has been cited as more important.

There is only a need for higher disposable income if private corporations are allowed to set the citizens' costs of common necessities of life and their wages.

Agree though, to the extent that, lately, that preference only extends to little socialistic frills like small scale govt investment in extra social housing, acknowledgement of climate change and subsequent "encouragement" of (some more) EV cars and turning off lights when not being used. That is, the little feel good social consciousness socialist policies that cost but don't make much money. Certainly not the massive industry size socialist policies that could lower living costs across the nation.

Why? Everyone knows governments can only spend money, they couldn't possibly run an industry, apparently....Thatcher-Reaganomics propaganda being hung onto by the business sector, plus the constant citing of the general direction of world ( read USA educated) investment policy boogeyman.

Maybe good governance should look out, long term, for its citizens/those within its jurisdictional limits, and uses foreign policies to blend that good governance acceptably into the world scene. Instead we get governance based on 3 year long reelection political decision making with very limited trust in oppositions.

Just a thought.

questioning eyebrow lift

@javi2541997,

The Christ Radiant painting, please.... If that's not available, the Melting Watch, please....

@Janus,
Very relatable. It's not bush or outback or city, it's how you situate yourself and your life.

relatively smiling

One idea/theory is every human decision has a philosophic basis/bias. You have to believe this to see this.
Like psychology, believe it's the basis/bias/ explanation of all human decisions, see it that way.

Personally, CURIOSITY! Everything about anything that falls across the path of living and the path of living as well, of course. That's philosophy.

Definitely not a social klutz, comfortable about verbal expression, as a single child can take or leave company but like frequent own time and space. Slow thinker with opinions that are never rust on....possibly squeezes into some profiles of a philosopher, who knows.

naked smile

Maybe Proportionate Reaction could be argued, if the concept's meaning and intended outcomes could be agreed upon?



encouraging smile

Have led a sheltered life regards pop bands from Scant'ia. Only know one from each, A-ha, Abba, Nightwish. Danish bands ???? Oh, and "Europe", wherever they were from...a Continental band, perhaps?
Argentinian bands ???? Sorry, Arcane, but ignorance is no excuse. Will check out early Sui Generis and give it due consideration, that is against the Argentinian political scene/upheavals of that time. Having Googled Spanish bands so as to not leave out Javi, not sure now if Goo gal can distinguish between bands that sing in the Spanish language and bands originating from Spanish speaking countries. Will work on it. Sorry, Javi, Spain's cultural contributions don't extend to metal/rock/etc bands for this ignoramus. More Cervantes, Picasso, flamenco type of Spanish cultural interests. Might mature/ grow up one day, generally no time soon if it can be helped.
Midnight Oil deserves a mention in an Australian Politics thread ( that's veered into rock/metal/ pop bands) for lyric content and personnel reasons.

unrepentant smile

Out back was where the dunny was situated in the Australian burgs until septic tanks and sewerage systems. And the Bush was closer at hand if the lady was prudish. No need to leave home, in the good ol' days, to be in either. And no semantic indecision defining the difference, unless you too were prudish.

smile

And it's all what's her name's fault. You know, the Reserve Bank Governor.

laughing but still pedaling

Amazing how a little Spanish can rev up a thread.

Regards The Nuke lee ha "Debate", anyone want to speculate on how well/fast the Ex Policeman from Queensland can backpedal, change lanes and direction if there was another Chernobyl or Fukushima between now and the Fed Election? And how loud the White Rooster from State Housing would crow?
Don't gasp/laugh, "Remember Tampa" and the "Earlier GST Attempt". There will be lots of straw grasping in the coming months. And unkept promises made!
At least, we don't have to elect a king/president every electoral cycle. So far!

Life with politics as a condition.


lopsided smile while riding/pedaling the push bike dynamo, for practice.

@Count Timothy von Icarus,

If you're up with late Roman Republican period, you won't learn new stuff reading "The Storm before..." Nothing too controversial, just a lean here and there. But, a few "that's like now" moments.
All backed up by references of writers within a century or so of the times. Honors Bachelor standard.

Agree. Sulla, no, not affecting enough long term uplift for "his" (Trump's) people.
Gracchii, maybe, smash a few assumptions/standards. Pave the way for a real "hero"? Who knows? If there is/ever was such in politics?

Cheery smile

@ssu,

While writing the above... an accurate/adequate descriptive noun alludes..., the temp hit 42C again and it is medium overcast with dense cloud and small breaks of blue sky in between. Clouds are unusual for this type of heat in this area.
Spent a lot of the 1990s droughts in Western Queensland. No electricity, bore water for drinking (always as strong tea), nearest town, sometimes as much as 250 klms away over bulldust ( fine red dust particles that suspend in the still air ) roads/sometimes tracks (unpaved) and blue steel skies, no humidity measurable, despite the frequent/constant mirages, and daytime temps ranging between high 30s on cool days, low to mid 40s most days and a general run of 10 to 15 days of high 40s to low 50s around Xmas into the new year. Nighttime temps could drop to low to mid 10s on good nights. Mid December through to late Feb.
That could be a reason why 90+% of Australia's population lives within 80 klms of the more temperate coast. Not enough trees for shade/rain, out west, maybe another reason nowadays if some of the environmentalists are to be believed.

A side note for you.
Mt. Isa, a silver, lead and zinc mining, pastoral and administrative town in Nth West Qld, was home to a large number of Finnish migrant miners in the 1950s and 60s.

cheery smile

@Banno

".... We only keep Charlie....... Trump is quite."

Quite!

"Yep........what that is from Washington.)

Quiet!

@Arcane Sandwich,

"..if only for the simple reason...demands and expectations of the worldwide public of the 21st Century"

Do you really think you can get consistency between 3 citizens picked at random from each of the world's countries ( so, less than 600 citizens of the world) as to their demands and expectations regarding compatibility of monarchies as a form of government? 600 out of 7-8 billion people? Good luck!
But if you restrict your statistical base to those that are interested in this area of governance and choose by the same method i.e. 3 at random that are interested per country, you may get lucky....
In short, the 21st Century worldwide public has more pressing interests in their own neighbourhood.

Not having a shot at you, .... but, sweeping statements are more likely to set off logic alarms than convince of rightness.

Media hype/sales/hits and barrow pushing academic talking heads are poor indicators of humanity's "collective" ( if there is such) thinking/beliefs. Doubt The Public can drop issues and pick up "new" ones with such rapidity and lack of follow-through. They're not paid/incentivized enough.

"Ethics and Royalty do not necessarily go hand-in-hand."

Republics, autocracies, oligarchies etc. etc, all have executive problems, not to mention ethical conundrums, cost and time effectivenessly speaking, which should be considered case by case. But, monarchies should not be given such consideration because they are "ill-equipped to adequately dignify the executive power"?
Mmm, some monarchies didn't do power spreads like exec, judic. legis,etc and got along swimmingly, sometimes, just like other forms of governance with such "apparent" divisions do now, sometimes, and sometimes, not.
Maybe,the question to ask is "What governance works best for which country's people at any given time?" and give it a name or categorize it when it's working. Rather than, one size/ one form of governance should/must fit all.
Informed, specific, critical input trumps/ has greater value than general ideology in the game we call politics, mostly!

The realization that politics/policies in some/most countries have world wide effects is another whole bowl of goldfish teetering on the edge of the ledge as well.

Just a thought.

Will leave it up to Banno to explain the position/relationship of the Gov - General, Charlie and the Aust parliaments in this constitutional monarchy.... that is what we still call it, isn't it?
Banno's more verbally cost/time efficient.

Tolerant, but not superior, smile

@Banno,
Had the Grampians' smoke for a couple of days after Xmas. Now, just back to dust, harvest detritus and grass/tree pollen. Plus 42C @ 4pm now. No need for the overcoat until later this evening,perhaps. Life in the rural regions!

@Arcane Sandwich,
Recognizing/understanding/believing the one continent, one nation "nature" of Australia as a country, is imbibed with mother's milk here for most of the non recent migrant, born here, population. Your take on Oceania, as anything geographical/geological to do with Australia's self view of its national geography/geology, is limited to the few locals involved/interested in continental geography/geology. Not a common topic in the cafe latte swigging, the beer swilling or the battlers' meetings. It might interest underwater cable laying or mining corporations at their board meetings, most of which are held, at that level, in New York or London, as seen through the average Australian taxpayer's eyes.

There is a general bond/understanding/belief between Aus and NZ populations based on historical, trade and "so far from the rest of the world, we look out for each other" origins. Plus, holiday destinations (for Aussies)/ where to get better opportunities (for Kiwis) at a more micro/individual level, and lately, with greater first peoples' dialogue/common cause between "us".

The view of "us" rather than "you and us" is most common between Aussies and Kiwis when international issues/pressures arise that affects both (and sometimes, either) of us, no matter the proportional difference of overall effect. A sense of family with the little tiffs and rivalries but with the overall bonds and slight xenophobic edge towards "outsiders" that that entails. This sense of family is fluid in its intensity though.

And, on a lighter note, everyone's welcome to visit and speak freely in this country, after due visa processing, of course, so long as you don't arrive on an Indonesian fishing boat. That can get you years on off shore detention, in "never never" land.
Different views and questions are always welcome when well intended.

Side note: The above is only one pov...

Cheerful smile

@Banno.

You must have been somewhere cool or an early morning riser, yesterday. 37 C by 10.30 am yesterday in N E Vic. Thought about taking off the overcoat for political reasons, of course... displaced far north and western Qlder...
dry smile

Just goes to show how little Australian politics is known by those of other lands. Justification for this thread.
Not having a go at you Arcane Sandwich but you're a few million years out of date. S America and Australia and a few other now separate landmasses use to be part of one lump of dry land, let's call it Goanaland because of laziness and obscure humour,
Which means the biggest sin of Australian politics is to consider Australia contained the inland sea and is not simply the western (arbitrary) shoreline.
Please apply this to the term "the S. American continent" and apply your words of reason to the position of Argentina, that is, it's the eastern coastline of the earlier Gonanaland.
The point being, when last checked a continent contained more land out of water than under water ( not ice like Antarctica) to achieve the geographic recognition of being a continent rather than an ocean ( at this scale). "Oceania" says it all.
Must say though, Australia is slightly better off than you, inflation wise, which is also politics of the economic kind. Probably why kidnapping was mentioned. Argentina's boom and bust economic history comes to mind, while Australia's social history is conveniently ignored, for the moment.
On a side note, anyone care to explain Australian Realism to an ignorant ( of much including what Aust. Real. is) Oceanian ( nod to Arcane). Ignore the request of this side note, while Wiki truths will continue to be ignored by this ignorant Oceanian. (another nod to you know who)

Well stirred, Arcane. Sure you're not a displaced Aussie or Kiwi?

hearty laugh in keeping with the Christian season

@javi2541997,

"... but now I want to focused....... under the Tsar dynasty."

That will keep you busy for sometime.

Recently read a very Modern Russian short stories compilation. Some good, some not. The eternal question "What makes good reading?"

cheery smile

@javi2541997,

Mikhail Sholokhov is an early Soviet Russian writer with reasonably balanced (politically for the times) story lines and some intellectual depth that might interest you if you're interested in early Soviet Russian literature. "Quiet flows the Don" is often quoted as his best, but that is arguable. He wrote several Russian Civil War novels with noticeable undertones/influences of the late Imperial greats.

Working with 55-60 year old memories, so treat above with care. Was into Russian literature around 12 to 16 years old. 1960s, shows tolerant ( or ignorant ) parents. Lucky!

encouraging smile

"The Storm before the Storm. The Beginning of the End of the Roman Republic" by Mike Duncan

Quoting B Franklin's remark that the (US) Constitutional Convention had produced"...a Republic... if you can keep it..", the author indicates a/the relevance of this historical study to current times.

Easy read with sufficient references from contemporary sources not to burden the general reader.

What a difference a few hours makes Inserted into politico sound bites. Taunting,mistake/slip of the tongue, creative fact constructing, perhaps! re: T Plibersek. (Spellcheck doesn't recognize her surname yet. Wonder what that augers?)

Another issue current in Aus politics.

1/ What influences will monetary limits on future election campaigns have? If at least two people can agree that there may be influences, and what they were post election?
1a/ Should such limits be pegged to inflation ( pick your favorite named set of those figures) or cost of living ( again, pick your....) or GDP or the total of politicians' gross wages and benefits ( pick how that should/ could be calculated) or a wealth distribution equalization figure compared to GDP figures.

A suggested reply may be 1/ " as much or little influence as the election committees can manipulate to advantage". But it may make it less about throwing money at advertising to buy votes or increase "pork barrelling".
and 1a/ GDP with wealth distribution equalization qualifiers as an incentive/bonus for good economic decisions/ cooperativeness and less politicking/ point scoring ( or sheer good guessing/luck). Good governance in other words.

(Yeah, a bit Democratic Socialist in at least one interpretation of DS theory. Prefer to think of it as social requirement/preference.)

Just some "random" thoughts

faint smile

It is always interesting to see how others, particularly/including Aussies, compare the Australian political parties with the US big two.
It may be suggested that any current comparison using "left" and "right" of the Reps or of the Dems is dated.
The LNP for all its "rhetoric" is still "left" of the Dems, even of the B.Sanders faction.
The LNP understands the general socialist/ social consciousness of current Aust voting and adjusts its face accordingly. Please note, "voting" not voters.
And for all its slide towards the big end of town, Labor is still "left" of the LNP in the opinions of the majority of Aust voters who are interested in such comparisons.

Does anyone agree? Or is this overly naive/ simplistic to comment upon/upon which to comment?

smile

@Banno,
...suffer from a poor combination of honesty and ignorance. And poor judgement."
Sounds like that applies to all politics and adherents at some time and depending on the commentator's bias/wheelbarrow.
Not knocking it though in this case. Electorates' members reserve the right to collectively elect dinosaurs, loonies, car sales persons, academics etc. etc.
Unfortunately, there are few legal limitations to nomination to stand for political election. Maybe, it could be argued, that is a benefit of the party based governance system, the weeding out effect of pre-selection.

Can't have the peons choosing their candidates. Could get too much parochial diversity and what would that do to the culture of politics? Not to mention the coherence of the nation?

And sorry Banno, your intention of highlighting( but not exclusively) the climate "debate" particularly in regard to electrical energy production, which is currently keeping the voters' minds off other more "complex" concerns such as housing, energy usage and the dreaded "cost of living crisis", flew right past due to the wishful and hopeful thinking that you may be introducing a balance to the heavy influence of US political and educated interest/argument that shows a "slight" preponderance, possibly due the nationality statistics of forum members. Sorry, if your intentions were misunderstood. Being corrected will be taken in the good grace that keeps the civility of the forum.
It is and will be very interesting catching up with the "homegrown" political interests and interpretations of fellow citizens et al. Keeping informed about politics is a bottomless well of...

slightly more eye opened smile

@Banno,

Any party of the foreseeable future [that is while we wait out this social media driven ( amongst other drivers) populist trend in current politics,] is capable of "...hand(ing) whatever reactors.....over to ( the party's latest election funders)".
Dollars of advertising buys votes, apparently. Too many disengaged voters make this possible here, despite compulsory voting. Times were when this country got the governance it required at an election.
Now, maybe we do or maybe we don't?
That last line may originate from disillusionment of youth or cynicism of age.
Such is life.

Sober smile

Perhaps the teaching of (unfettered) civics and critical thinking at all levels of education, (civics up to undergraduate level where it can go on as professional ethics etc) may be the best educational improvement for the tidying up of politics.
But which political theory/ system would/could ( with)stand the probable outcome in the real world.
Governance, good or otherwise, rarely withstands intense scrutiny on a decision by decision basis. And not everybody takes/applies what they're taught on into their lives.

just a smile

@Metaphysician Undercover,

"...treat migrants with care..." mmm! Scarce evidence of that. Everybody has migrant origins, even first nations' people came from elsewhere, something convenient to forget, at times.

Not arguing with you. Just tidying up, a little bit. Of course,your being ironic also may be an interpretation.

A smile of no expectations

@Tom Storm,

Well made point with that video. Enough room for multiple interpretations, like politics.

appreciative smile

The history of election promises in countries like here can be divided into 1/ kept or 2/ unkept, with further subdivisions. These subdivisions express the degree of 1/ or 2/ and give excuses/reasons as to why 1/ or 2/ could or should be attributed.
Which party makes or breaks these promises is given a name which can change from time to time (with some exceptions).
To believe that a party's name or history of election promises is indicative of a single interpretation of its own "mission statement" is to show democratic political naivety.

But to comment on @Banno opening comment. Liberal's use to support the big end of town and Labor used to support the little man. But there have been changes along the way both interspectionally and intraspectionally, perception-wise.

"...Labor policy to be to take public control of the gas industry" expresses pre-Neoliberal Labor values .ie. back in the 1950s-60s. Ancient history in today's world view!

Notice the independents collectively called Teals have a taste for partyism but also want to have and to eat their cake.

No argument, just observation based on life long experience ( for what that's limited in its worth).

2 cents worth of smile

@Metaphysician Undercover,

"... so much wide open space..." has what to do with taking " even more migrants than the US"?

Housing infrastructure, social attitudes, job/business opportunities might be a better measure of capacity to take in migrants.

No argument about your general idea, Though treat migrants as a resource that needs extra care and thought in its handling compared to inanimate resources.

sad smile

Agree that the reasons you present, being life orientated, predominate. Probably because the dead can't argue in any meaningful way with the living. The barrier we call death only has one side visible to those who we know can mount any arguments for or against suicide. Hence the bias.

The Spiritualists may disagree regards the one visible sided barrier.

With overpopulation and the other rafts of issues that have and still do face us, suicide may get more popular, but its proponents will still only have life based arguments to use.

Maybe what answers you seek can only be found eventually by living, questioning and moving through life. However you find them, you'll have to stay alive to explain them and appreciated the answers.

And agree with T Clark... "You won't find appropriate answers here".

@Hanover,
"As to the OP.........what you haven't received is part of your bounty as well."

Hard to deny, and so general and sweeping as to cover all in between the metaphorical glass full and the glass empty. But no proof of or disproof of or useful comment on the two (glasses)/extremes of religious belief and disbelief in religion.

And hence, dare we say "Thanks for nothing" and be saying anything meaningful ( in this OP's sense) without the acceptance of our addressing a "higher power".

Probably not. Religious nuances ( or nuances derived from religious belief) are hard to remove from our language without stripping it of much sense/ understandability.

a tuppenny smile

Sorry. This has lead off topic. Apologies for being part of the derailment.

As way of an inadequate excuse, even in international affairs, divergent points of view trace back to differences in philosophic stands....often.

apologetic smile

It may be suggested the practical realm is impacted by these theories when a practical/technological application impacts our lives. Until then, very little impact for every few.

But, don't stop wondering.

smile of encouragement

@Christoffer,

No dispute with your assertion that democracies have to be worked at/ protected actively by their citizens to survive. And this is getting more complicated as time goes on. And by the willingness and passion for the retention of democracy in different regions of humanity.

Interesting, though, that in the - being generous - 2,500 years since the concept of democracy was given its name, it may be argued, that not a lot of the world's population has lived under a functioning governance that most of us would recognize and agree was a democracy.??
.
Not being anti-democracy. Just concerned about the basis of your choice of such a system having world wide application even, with its various historical permutations and combinations, in this "educated and connected" era.

Agree without reservation, it is considered an excellent, possibly the best system of governance by most of those people who have had ( possibly generational ) exposure/ born into democratic nations of the north western half hemisphere ( and speckled throughout the rest of the world) and have formed this consideration from within that limited understanding/experience of what good governance should look like/ should be.
But in worldwide geopolitical terms, democracy only warms the interest of few other interested peoples and their current forms of not democratic governance.

Oh, and why should a democracy need a constitution if it is so apparently the "best" ( to strive for) and good for peoples' governance? Or is it not a democracy if it has no constitution?

(Still trying to get an understanding of your style/understanding of what is a democracy's fundamental structure as compared to existing democracies that you might not agree should be called democracies, perhaps many of the republics in the world that claim democratic status at the United Nations Assembly.) Not asking for a comprehensive definition as that may lead off into nit or cherry picking.

Maybe the origin of this comment and continuing interest lies in the (maybe too naive and too limited) belief/ thinking/questioning based on personal and some historical observations that all forms of governance, once established, strive for the consolidation and perpetuation of the status quo within themselves and crave the extra powers possible to gain from expanding their influence into the rest ( or other parts) of the world ( including, for some, space).

This seems to give rise to at least a dichotomy or schism/s in perceived self reassurance of worth, a backbone breaker of any system of governance, And may lead to a different governance style i.e, change. Would you agree?

a skeptical worry line creased forehead

@Christoffer,

A brave call for change, limited though! And based on an assumption that there is a level playing field called democracy that only has one form/ universal understanding.
Why democracy?
And in times of immediate crisis, multi party democracies can not always act swiftly i.e. stop playing politics and start producing good governance.
Many limits to that one form of governing!

But why should the perfect be the enemy of the good? This seems to be, currently, a much touted expression.

slightly slit eyed querying smile