Have you read my exchange with @frank?

Correct. People think what they say is true even when the assertion is false. They are just not aware of it.

Assertion doesn't depend on the truth of what is asserted, as we were all taught. — J

Strange. Google defines assertion as: An assertion is a speech act where a speaker claims or declares a proposition to be true.

No, that's just my avatar. :wink: — J

Yes, I know! :wink:

Perhaps people read this exchange and change their minds!

John 3:16 states the doctrine of the Propitiatory Sacrifice. — frank

I asked for a reason why such a thing is right from God. John 3:16 states what I asked: Whether Jesus' Sacrifice was necessary. I also asked what the difference is between the Gods of the Old and New Testaments.

I see the cat on the mat!

Apparently so. — frank

Is there a reason mentioned in the scripture for this torture? That is the God of the very old Testament, Human sacrifice to perhaps please God to do things no one but God can do. What is the difference between the Old and New Testaments?

If God is holy, He could simply forgive our sins instead of this loophole, a part of it dying on the cross, causing torture on Himself, Jesus! That does not make any sense at all. Are you saying that God could not forgive our sins until Jesus' sacrifice was made!? Which kind of Omnipotent God is if He could not simply forgive?

How can ignorance be bliss?

I have no training in art. I think there are three key elements when it comes to artwork, namely, idea, form, and media. The idea is the mental focus of the artist, which is expressed in the artwork. Form is the configuration of media that plays a role in conveying the idea between the artist and the audience. Media is material used for the artwork.

Muse - Uprising



Muse - Hoodoo

Queens Of The Stone Age - No One Knows

I agree with the government that it is time to reduce the voting age to 16. But more importantly, democracy and the role it plays in our nation should be taught in schools. — Punshhh

Yes, and socialism too!

R.E.M. - Losing My Religion

Aerosmith - Dream On

Thanks for the link!

This is entirely out of step with what's going on between us. I am saying that pain is not 'bad' because you're conflating suffering with pain. I am pointing out that problem. — AmadeusD

Yes, pain is not wrong/bad per se. That is discussed in the OP. And I am not conflating suffering with pain. Suffering and pain, however, are related; suffering is defined as the state of undergoing pain.

I agree ‘equality before the law’ is a good political ideal. — Fire Ologist

I agree too.

That’s one whole conversation, about politics and the formation of the relationship between citizens and the state and the law. — Fire Ologist

Correct, given your last point.

I agree equal opportunity would be nice, but practically will never happen. — Fire Ologist

How about not spending money on the military, saving money for the right education, and creating new job opportunities? Could you rationalize making a weapon to kill humans?

We will never be able to create a world where all people have all opportunities equally because of the nature of people and the nature of the world, and the nature of people in the world. — Fire Ologist

So, you think that we have not evolved well enough?

I disagree people are by nature equal to each other. Quite the opposite, I believe all of us are each unique, and unequal. This is biology, psychology and theology. — Fire Ologist

Yes, we are different.

So depending on what you mean by “equality for humans”, and unless you are only talking politics, I likely disagree with you. — Fire Ologist

By equality, I mean that all members of humanity get what they deserve, opportunities, growth, and then delivering the fruit of the growth.

I don’t know what that means. — Fire Ologist

Morality is about realizing what is right to do, good, or evil, given the definition of good and evil in the OP.

You respond to my OP by saying about your pain. It seems that you can handle it, which sounds right to me. I still don't know whether you agree with my OP or not.

Ok, so you are having a sort of pain, muscle pain, for example. Muscle pain is my case. I think we are simple people dealing with suffering and are not narcissists at all.

I also respond to @180 Proof as well in this thread. He refused to answer my question, which was key to the discussion, calling it a non-sequitur!

I already discussed what I mean by equality through my conversation by @javi2541997. The thread is short so you can spot those posts quickly. If you wish, I can see if I can find more information than this discussion.

I lived life is not something one can learn though. — I like sushi

Life is a great teacher! Your knowledge is developed through your interaction with mental events. Uncertainty in life allows us to learn from our mistakes, so we face new things every day, including new challenges, which keep our minds engaged and entertained.

Not everyone gains much wisdom with age but I doubt no one gain any whatsoever. — I like sushi

Very correct!

A basic education can easily lead someone down a blind alley just as it can broaden horizons. Awareness of this is knowledge, whilst understanding it is ourselves who are certainly succumbing to blind alleys or overreaching beyond the horizon is where wisdom lies. — I like sushi

Philosophy of art, for example, is a branch of philosophy. Without an art training, you cannot philosophize about art.

Ironically it seems tha failiure is the only way to make any kind of progress in life. Bravery is learning to keep on keeping on. I believe this is why Sisyphus was regarded as the wisest of all. — I like sushi

Could you please provide a few short quotes from him?

Consciousness, to me, is a mental event. Mental events cannot be coherent on their own unless you can explain how a mental event at one point in time could cause a mental event related to the former event later!

Ok, so could you give an example of when you like suffering?

Do you like or dislike suffering?

I believe otherwise. I think consciousness is casual. However, it seems to me what I'm talking about here would apply either way. — Patterner

If matter is fundamental and moves according to the laws of nature, and consciousness is an emergent property from matter. Consciousness, therefore, cannot be causally efficacious because the motion of matter is determined!

I have a thread on "Physical cannot be the cause of its own change" here. So, the mind is fundamental; the mind is a substance with the ability to experience, freely decide when needed, and cause. It is the mind that causes change.

As we discussed in another thread of mine, I think suffering is something intrinsically human. Perhaps something that is very connected to the human condition. — javi2541997

I think other creatures, like animals, also suffer.

We only distinguish between physical and psychological to make boundaries, but the effect is the same. — javi2541997

By physical suffering, I mean a kind of suffering whose cause is physical, like when you cut your finger. Psychological suffering is otherwise. The effect is the same, namely suffering.

Suffering could be psychological or physical, so-called pain in the second case. It seems to me that you don't like suffering, pain, for example. That means that you have a good nature or you are a good creature.

So we are all bad. — Fire Ologist

I don't think so. The main reasons we make mistakes are a lack of education, genetics, and uncertainty about the future. We can only fix the education. Once that is done, there is nothing bad at all. I also don't think we're bad at all right now. We mainly lack education.

The roots of mistakes are the lack of education, genes, and uncertainty about what the very far future brings. We can only fix education.

but this violates your use of 'evil' as that would not be suffering. — AmadeusD

I think I should have used the word "like" instead of "enjoy" to avoid confusion: There are plenty of people who like evil, such as masochists.

I cannot see a reason beyond 'it's unpleasant' to label any given x 'evil'. — AmadeusD

If by unpleasant you mean dislike, then that couldn't be correct. I already illustrated in the OP what I mean by good and evil and what I mean by good and evil creatures.

This seems non sequitur. — AmadeusD

It is not. You are a good person, by a good person I mean that you prefer pleasure instead of suffering. You expressed that you don't like pain in your first post in this thread. Therefore, you could not be an evil creature.

Indeed, it is interesting to study each individual case!

I never denied the existence of good and evil: — Bob Ross

You do when you relate evil as privation of good. Good and evil are fundamental features of our experiences. We humans mostly prefer good over evil because of our genes. So we are biased.

I noted that goodness is real and evil is not real. — Bob Ross

Evil, of course, is real.

Evil is the privation of what is good: so it exists, but is not a member of reality. — Bob Ross

If something is not real, it cannot exist either, given the definition of real. So, I think you are contracting yourself.

It is a lacking of goodness; just like how darkness is not real but light is. — Bob Ross

There is no relation between evil and nonexistence.

It would be a hard situation, but I can't see if it is related to inequality. — javi2541997

Correct, it is hard! However, some people on the street might wish for a different life, might deserve a different life. Is there any social system to support such individuals? Equality is related to being in a situation you deserve.

Perhaps it is more connected to my personal circumstances which make me live on the street. In my humble opinion, I believe we should consider why I could end up living on the street rather than if it is a lack of inequality. Living on the street may be a personal decision to escape from reality rather than a cause of financial issues. — javi2541997

Equality does not mean that all people should be similar. Equality is about receiving the required income for all individuals so they can constantly contribute, constantly grow, etc.

I did. Please reread my post here.

Too many non sequitors ... — 180 Proof

A simple question cannot be a non-sequitur! The answer to that question is the key to understanding why equality is the goal. We have a dichotomy of just and unjust. Do you think that humans' lives are just? We have a dichotomy of equality and inequality as well. I think that just lives for humans is when there is equality. It seems that you think otherwise. You think that it is right that people live on the street.

He points to a familiar problem: We would like some sort of absolute knowledge, a View from Nowhere that will transcend “local interpretative predispositions.” But what if we accept the idea that science aims to provide that knowledge, and may be qualified to do it? What does that leave for philosophy to do? Williams says we should then regard philosophy as one of the social sciences, which do not attempt or claim that kind of transcendence. — J

The duty of philosophers is to formulate ideas, with the aim of finding absolute knowledge, and write them in a concise form. To do this, a basic training in the fields of science and art is required.