Comments

  • Questions
    It may be a total illusion, and maybe that feeling is just a more complex emotion working unconsciously.Noble Dust
    Sorry, there is no maybe here, not a total illusion. What if I tell you that nostalgia is an involuntary information retrieval, manifested not as touch, smell, sound -- but like a secondary bacterial infection, for lack of a better word -- after exposure to sense data of touch, smell, sound?

    Now, I wonder if these feelings are a mental representation, too; so, when I imagine myself feeling nostalgicDaniel

    See my above response to Noble Dust.
  • A few forum stats
    Pie charts are much easier to understand, because the are based 100% and split into parts equivalent to the percentages. Have you ever tried to create a pie where subgroups appear in several places in the chart?Sir2u

    Venn Diagram will work here, to present a visual overlapping of counts.
  • Questions
    The sense data of the ocean, a turntable, or an ice cream shop may contribute to the feeling of nostalgia, which may be better described as a socially constructed emotion concept than a mental representation. Mental representation like the smell of the ocean are independent of emotion concepts and any sort of social consensus.praxis

    But that's the thing -- it's more than emotion. Nostalgia must have the empirical experience in order for it be nostalgia. Otherwise, we could just be attached to tubes in a vat being fed experiences.
  • Questions
    So, I'd like to ask you, what do you feel when you think of nostalgia? What is it represented by?Daniel
    Well, the same way others feel when experiencing nostalgia -- happy, familiar place or object. Or just a longing of something positive that I've experienced in the past. But if we actually think about it, nostalgia is a different representation than just the quality of a place or object, such as the sound and smell of the ocean, an old turntable, or even an ice cream shop. These objects cannot contain "nostalgia" nor can they produce nostalgia.
  • A few forum stats
    ↪SophistiCat I am not great at math nor statistics, but I don't think there are 222% of users here in the forum. :smirk:Sir2u

    :grin: No, SophistiCat's stats did not add up to 222%. Please read it again.
  • Questions
    ↪praxis and is every mental representation in the form of images or "sounds" made by my inner voice? or am I missing some other type of mental representation?Daniel
    Yes you are. Nostalgia is a mental representation that's not represented by any of the things you associate with it -- happy, longing, past. I'm sure there will be objection to this, but let's dissect it.
  • The meaningfulness item on math probability
    Did that answer what you were looking for?Philosophim

    No. He wants the probability to have limits of range that's meaningful. And I don't know how that happens.
  • Infinite casual chains and the beginning of time?
    Af far as I can see, you're the only one that don't understand typical use of "value" (e.g., as in variables that may take values, like some/any proposition p in non-contradiction ¬(p ∧ ¬p)). I suppose, if you don't even (want to) try, then so be it.jorndoe

    This is a good example. To be fair, values can also be invalid.
    But I think Metaphysician's difficulty here, and other points on this thread, is the context or application of theory. I think MU is not trying to argue about equivalence --> 2+2 = 4, a mathematical proof, rather it is referent that's being invoked here.
  • Infinite casual chains and the beginning of time?
    Call it "being a troll" if you like. I look at it as a trivial matter. The problem is that the difference needed to be pointed out, because fishfry kept insisting that the very same thing is represented on the left side as the right side of the equation.Metaphysician Undercover

    It's not trivial. Refine your claims -- this is what I gather from Luke's pleas. Whenever one invokes a mathematical equation, he or she is bound by a mathematical conclusion. In a game of chess all moves are determined and defined and understood.
    Instead of arguing pages after pages of the same thing without changing one variable in your claim (you are engaging in futility, which amounts to nonsense) --
    use the theory of meaning if you want to make a point on the the distinction between "2+2" and the number 4. Please start there.
  • Infinite casual chains and the beginning of time?
    AFAIK the Schrodinger equation's time evolution is deterministic, but that doesn't make the states deterministic.fdrake
    You mean it doesn't make the states stable or uniform. Determinism is commutative, but results can be unstable or changeable.
  • Visual math
    But which came first: the idea or the visualization?frank

    The Pythagorean Theorem is inherently empirical -- which helps the case of the proponents of the grounding of mathematics on a fundamental, physical, tangible form.
  • Aliens!
    I don't think we have anything either. Or, to put it more precisely, if we have alien stuff, then I think the zoo hypothesis solution to the Fermi Paradox is right, to the point that we're being deceived about the universe on a massive scale.RogueAI
    Yeah.
    I'm not sure if we could even entertain the question -- what if we're the future? But then where are the alien interstellar ruins that went under the radar of archaeological dig. Where are the alien wastes, the progeny, ... oh yeah, decimated by the big bang? We are measuring the size of the universe. The distance, then the size of intergalactic objects, etc. We are looking where we expect stuff to be.
  • What is this school of ethics called?
    Nobody as of yet have proven core moral claims using provable (and proved), descriptive claims.MadWorld1

    They've done this for claims about pain. Also, primal fear is real and provable.
  • The dirty secret of capitalism -- and a new way forward | Nick Hanauer
    What? I wasn't suggesting a conspiracy...Banno


    While this is not what I was thinking, the power of suggestion compels me to meander in that direction. So, are you suggesting something at all?
    If the market is not in equilibrium, some people might say 'but that's not what would cause a bust as it has nothing to do with it. Market equilibrium and the economic cycle of feast or famine have never been in that kind of relationship.'
  • The dirty secret of capitalism -- and a new way forward | Nick Hanauer

    "The World Social Report 2020: Inequality in a rapidly changing world comes as we
    confront the harsh realities of a deeply unequal global landscape. In North and South
    alike, mass protests have flared up, fueled by a combination of economic woes,
    growing inequalities and job insecurity. Income disparities and a lack of opportunities
    are creating a vicious cycle of inequality, frustration and discontent across generations."

    Okay, these are effects. No contradiction to what we're discussing here.

    Suppose the the market is not in a state of equilibrium, but has been treated as if it were... would the resulting instability look like a series of booms, followed by busts?Banno
    What? First, how does one fake this kind of ginormous interconnection of markets and populations?
    Second, say we could fake it, then the series of booms -- why then would we allow a series of busts? I'm just saying... if we could fake something this enormous.
  • The dirty secret of capitalism -- and a new way forward | Nick Hanauer
    Is boom and bust the issue, or inequity?Banno

    Ah. I'm sort of mentally fumbling on this as I'm not sure whether we are confusing cause with effect here.

    I believe the issue we want to deal with is that the boom and bust is the result of a faulty economic system -- inequity or not. (Just for good measure, there would still be times when tightening is needed even in the most equitable economy.)
    And how do we define equity? Unequal income is not necessarily a sign of inequity.
  • The dirty secret of capitalism -- and a new way forward | Nick Hanauer
    Economic growth comes from innovation and increased complexity, not the quantity of money.Banno

    Yes, but we have instead a boom and bust economy. Economic cycle is best when it's tightened and then relaxed, tightened then relaxed, not feast or famine, where many would lose their livelihood and commodity in the form of time gained through savings (time is money), and therefore lose faith in the system.
  • What is this school of ethics called?
    What if?.....We use science to find the cause of a harmful action and dismiss highly subjective claims in favour of objective facts?Bert Newton

    This is what many societies have been doing already.
    But don't think that just because something can be proven wrong, that it's going to change some people's minds.
  • The dirty secret of capitalism -- and a new way forward | Nick Hanauer
    Neoliberal assumptions that are false:
    the market is an efficient equilibrium system
    the price of something is always equal to its value
    we are all perfectly selfish, perfectly rational and relentlessly self-maximizing.
    Banno

    Just look at the stock market. :yikes:
  • Aliens!
    So where are all the dimming stars we should be seeing from all the alien civs building all these solar collector swarms and habitats?RogueAI

    Hi. So, is this the evidence you've come to believe should happen if they exist?
  • Evidence and confirmation bias
    Should we accept less evidence (e.g. weaker research studies) if they support what we already believe? Or is this just giving in to confirmation bias?Ed Davis

    Hello.

    Good question!

    It looks like you've shifted from the trust put on the person claiming the existence of the 'horse in the field behind their house' to the existence of an object -- the unicorn.

    Ask yourself whether your colleague trusted the methodology, the person making the claim, or the claim itself.
  • What happened to "Philosophy Forums"?
    Is it really down? I haven't visited it.
    But I should reopen my account there and be an active member again.
    Unfortunately, I'm very busy to even sustain a thread.
    I have been trying to renew my commitment to philosophical discussions. I have acquired new books and even read up at work during break. Also, I've lost my little library -- a tiny collection of philosophy books. Which I wish to rebuild when I have the time.
  • Can you trust your own mind?
    The only thing that's unreliable is luck.
  • Can you trust your own mind?
    Suppose I muster the courage to say, "My mind is absolutely unreliable". How would I proceed from there? Perhaps I can rely on someone else's mind.Wheatley

    In fact we do. I'm not worried about my own mind's reliability. There are plenty of markers around to remind us that we are just imagining things or what we believe is what's true. Nature, for one, has been an excellent guide. Have you really doubted nature's clock?
    Mathematics is an excellent guide as well. The bridge will stand and safe to drive over. It is reliable to lease a building for 15 years. None of these happen by luck.
  • Belief in balance
    So if balance seems like the guiding hand in the universe, is it something to believe in?DanielP

    From anthropomorphic point of view? I thought quantum mechanics had not used balance as a premise. The uncertainty principle certainly does not rely on balance.
    What do you think?
  • Collective Subjectivity
    Mill was disparaging of the crowd - he was no friend of social thought and he was as much as intellectual progenitor to the atomization and destitution of society as any other liberal thinker.StreetlightX
    True, I think. He wasn't a fan of conformity -- he thought society should be one big lab for experimentation, if I remember correctly.
  • Is physical causality incomplete?
    What do you think? Is this argument flawed?Matias

    It is the intention of physics not to inject intentionality in its endeavor as such effort could not be examined or tested. This is called defining the domain. But are physicists shooting themselves in the foot?
    I don't find anything caustic with George Ellis quote -- either because I don't fully understand his narrative or because from what I gathered, I could say to it "Okay".

    Except:
    physics would still fail to comprehend human purpose and hence would provide a causally incomplete description of the real world around us. This situation is characterized by the self-referential incompleteness of physics: there is no theory or experiment that can determine what will be the next experiment to be undertaken by the experimenter or theory to be created by the theorist."Matias
    This contradicts the domain. Physics has building blocks upon which future experiments rely on.

    You know what, this is actually hypocrisy -- there are tearing down of theories in physics and rebuilding anew.
  • Collective Subjectivity
    "In that density, where there is scarcely any space between, and body presses against body, each man is as near the other as he is to himself, and an immense feeling of relief ensues. It is for the sake of this blessed moment, when no-one is greater or better than another, that people become a crowd".StreetlightX
    This sounds like happy hour with lots of drinking happening! It's true, too.

    Crowd adopts a different personality from an individual. This was alluded to, or given an attention, by no other than JS Mill. No?
  • Limits to intentions behind questions
    Is this what you mean by asking of opinions? Rather I have presented opinion as action. Is this along the same lines of your thinking ?Fruitless
    Yes, you can say that.
  • Limits to intentions behind questions
    Is this an accurate description?Fruitless

    Yes.

    Then, now what's missing here? These are all questions of facts. Could we ask about opinions?
  • Limits to intentions behind questions
    What more can we ask in addition to the seven basic question of what, why, who, where, when, which and how?Fruitless

    A question that could be satisfied with a simple "yes" or "no" answer -- or the declaration of one's affirmation or negation of something. Of course, I anticipate that one would disagree, cause the "what" question could potentially be an end-all question. But could it? Let's try.
  • What advance in epistemological or metaphysical knowledge did David Hume bring us?
    No, philosophers were unable to refute Hume's claim that the external world cannot be demonstrated.Ron Cram
    Hume's claim that the external world cannot be demonstrated? Okay, let's indulge on this.
    May I ask what this means to you, if Hume said this? What does it mean to demonstrate the external world.
    Thanks in advance.
  • What advance in epistemological or metaphysical knowledge did David Hume bring us?
    I think you are trying to draw too fine a distinction here. When you see motion, you are looking at kinetic energy.Ron Cram
    No you're not. But your teachers must have told you so.
    What you see is movement of objects that may or may not have the property of kinetic energy. Talk to magicians or illusionists.
  • What advance in epistemological or metaphysical knowledge did David Hume bring us?
    Yes, it did freak out a bunch of philosophers and no one knew how to refute him.Ron Cram
    Refute what? That induction is unjustified? They all joined him on this!

    The question [that you should address to Hume yourself] is "So what?". So what if induction is not justified understanding. Can we live with this? Yes! I'm not at all bothered by this.

    But Hume's idea was still completely irrational. He did not add to our philosophical knowledge because he was wrong and I can prove it.Ron Cram
    Irrational in what way? And why would a philosopher add to our knowledge all the time instead of just invalidating what we're accustomed to already? Skeptics do this and we take it for granted! And yes they are philosophers, just so you know.
  • What advance in epistemological or metaphysical knowledge did David Hume bring us?
    I've read it very closely and can find absolutely nothing of value in it. His idea that our observations are just in our mind and that we cannot know if objects external to our mind exist or if they exist when we are not looking at them is completely irrational and leads to absurdities.Ron Cram
    If you're not convinced there's nothing of value in one's philosophy that claims our understanding based on our observation cannot be justified, then that's your opinion. But Hume had made a statement that's deceptively simple it freaked the heck out of the entire caboodle of philosophers.

    Kinetic energy is implied in the the movement of the pool balls. We grasp its truth, but never the thing "kinetic". It's not separable from the other things in the room, like the balls. Yet you speak of it like you could literally hold it in your hand, with or without the balls.

    What do you mean when you say we can observe kinetic energy being transferred? We can observe the first ball strike the second ball followed by the second ball moving. But you'd observe the same thing if you were watching an animation of pool balls. We can only observe phenomena, but not the reasons behind phenomena. Reasons are not available to our senses, only to our intellects. So I think proving that one pool ball causes the second to move would require a logical proof and not just an appeal to experience.Dusty of Sky
    Correct.
  • What is scale outside of human perception?
    What is the scale of anything without anything relative to it. Is there absolute scale?schopenhauer1

    By reason of coherence, you cannot ask this. What is the scale of anything without scalability? This is nonsense. It's like asking what is the absolute size of something that has no dimension?
  • "A door without a knob is a wall..." Thoughts?
    To this God replied, "I sent you a rowboat and a motorboat and a helicopter, what more did you expect?
    :razz:
  • Have you guys ever regretted falling down the rabbit hole seeing how deep it can get?
    The what?Maw

    :grin:

    I find references to the Matrix like it mattered to be extremely irritating.Bitter Crank

    :grin:

    Hello @Jimmy,
    Don't mind Maw and Bitter. That's their way of showing love. Mentioning Matrix or such references is frowned upon cause it's probably a lazy way of explaining yourself. The rest of us choose not to 'get it', for good reason. Just explain yourself.
  • "A door without a knob is a wall..." Thoughts?
    If I wrote something, and you don't understand it - does the responsibility of understanding not ultimately rest with you?Shamshir
    I don't think we ascribe responsibility to the process of "understanding". It happens, or not. But convincing is a task, the responsibility of which falls on the writer -- that is, it is the writer's responsibility to convince the reader of the value or truth of his ideas.