I have skipped over profiting by buying it and trading it, but that seems more of a "consumer" approach. In becoming a miner or creating your own digital currency, you take a "producer" approach and are liable to access much higher profits if you were successful. You also retain much more control. Only that with something like this technology - apart from starting your own currency or becoming a miner for an existing one - I don't see many alternatives, at least as of yet. But it may be possible that it's just because I'm not sufficiently technically literate in the surrounding matters.

How is the mining of Ethereum going? I've heard there are people who have really big "farms" to mine for these currencies, so how is it possible for anyone to compete with them? — Agustino

The part time mining of Ethereum at college on one GPU is up to about $20.00, not much but for a student who has invested nothing (I realize there is energy used that the school is providing {however with tuition of $52K a year I am not getting all that worked up about it/or waiting for the school to say something} but his degree requires him to have a GPU) and the education he is getting along the way is amazing.

Conversely, I think my other Indian who just invested $100 cash bought in at $420.00 and is now worth $700? I could be totally off but I think that is what they were saying last night.

Here is the really cool thing- NicK keeps getting caught with clients wanting to know about Cryptocurrency but even though he does IT from sunrise to sunset, he has less than half the knowledge than our youngest Indian who is the miner. NicK charges $150.00 an hour with a two hour minimum and cannot waste these clients money, letting them pick his brain about Cryptocurrency. One client in particular is VERY hungry and wants to get in on this but doesn't know how and since NicK hasn't actually done it but our youngest Indian has, he has offered to go out and educate NicK's client on what he knows. We will see where that goes as most people over the age of 45 don't really get the math that the youngers do. From a public speaking perspective I told him to go in with an hour set, the first 30 minutes explain how it works and then let the client pick his brain for the last 30.

Since the client is over 45 yrs old I imagine his eyes are going to glaze over about 15 minutes in and from then on he is going to realize that it might just be time to let another invest for him and watch what happens to the initial investment. By the second call I took from my Indian at college telling his older brother to sell, I asked why is his little brother not making those moves for his older brother?

8-) You see where I am going with this by now and it will be interesting to see what happens. On our way home last night with our Christmas tree in tow, I suggested to our youngest Indian to take over his older brothers money, charge whatever you need to make back in fees if there are any and then you choose a % of the profit made on that trade. He said okay like 1%? I said 5%? And NicK of course was the highest at 10% but remember he has been the sole bread winner for almost 20 yrs now so his perspective is not always as generous as the rest of us.

As an interesting sidenote, they say they make 20 BTC/day, meaning approximately 7200/year. At current prices that translates to :-O - $135 MILLION per year! I think they must have huge profit margins too, since it's a computer business not a people business (people are very expensive).
— Agustino

I would agree with that advice, or at the very least I would say to keep everything invested, but not in just one asset/trade. I've done a bit of stock trading with small sums of money while in University, but that didn't go as well as - *gasp* - sports betting >:O I remember that I struggled to even keep up with inflation and avoid losing with my stocks. Sports betting went much better for me - I guess it was because I also happened to have the right mentors around for the betting. — Agustino

Personally I cannot allow myself to gamble as I would go to the poor house if I did. As it turns out, my youngest has been investing in other cryptocurrencies and stratifying his investing. Since he is a student his income is none, so cash is hard to come by but apparently Granny had a gift of $100 for him and he invested in something. When I told him some of the delays and necessary information given that I have read on this thread, he nodded in agreement. :-O I was like no, folks from the forum are having to submit Drivers Licenses or photo id and more, much more involved and he just kept nodding. I said are you kidding me? He said no. He and his brother had to both do that as well, did I not wonder why he needed his SS#? Well yeah but you were at school and I thought you needed it for.........shit that one slipped right by Mom.

Many people are doing that, but what's the point? Nobody knew back in 2010 that Bitcoin would grow so much. And until recently, even my own knowledge about it came more from hearsay than anything solid - I've only started reading into it and understanding all the factors at play much more recently. So without being intimately familiar with the technology back then it's almost impossible that you could have rationally made the decision to invest a sizeable sum of money in it. — Agustino

I know but it still bites! >:O And I am not going to throw in the towel and say "It is what it is" >:O

It's not their "energy", it's the computer's X-) — Agustino

That is true my friend but if there is an ancillary artery to be found on any new idea, I can usually ferret it out and just like the stock market today, there are LOTS of people in this world that would just let someone else "worry about it" whether that is a 401k or a Cryptocurrency investment. Just an idea....

know exactly what this means. You're worried about all sorts of shit you can't control so you're trying to assure yourself that you're doing exactly what you ought to be doing and that you're exactly in the right place and you're using as evidence of this some completely irrelevant things that you're trying to convince yourself are important, but you know deep down they're really not, and this is so not what you want to hear.

It's all self deception to alleviate your sense of hopelessness. It's distressing to me. I can't imagine what it's like to you. — Hanover

My best friend is much like Wosret when it comes to the balance of life. She started as a professional massage therapist working for me at the Doctors office and is now at the Four Seasons for the last decade. People who believe in the power of balancing the inner chakras are no different than those who believe they can improve their golf swing with practice. The only difference is that when they experience what Wosret explained it is a much deeper sense of calm than that brief moment that you might get in killing it on the back 9.

My friend who does Reiki also attends clinics with like people to open up their beings to allow feelings and love into their lives. I have spoken to my girlfriend twice after these sessions and she is literally walking on clouds and has a light sense of herself, like nothing she has ever experienced.

Personally? I think that there is a push of Dopamine and other naturally occurring 'feel good' elements in our bodies when you are done with the sessions. I have never had a golf lesson but I cannot imagine it would be nearly as satisfying as a session of yoga and light.

You don't need to know any langauge other than English when traveling to other countries. Just speak really loud and slow and point a lot and speak in their accent. — Hanover

Exactly. Here in Arizona we use a lot of sign language and motions along with a great deal of Spanglish. Between knowing a few verbs, tenses and nouns, you could get yourself a beer and know where the bathroom is without too much trouble.

@Sir2u
I am wondering what language is used in Honduras and how you learned the language.

@DPMartin
Welcome to The Philosophy Forum!
Enjoy your stay!

Throw a Frisbee to someone and they will demonstrate thinking about the future — AngleWyrm

Awesome response!

What I'm not sure on yet, is how one can profit from blockchain technologies - it obviously will be able to help you in your own particular industry (through smart contracts, etc. etc.), but how do you profit from the technology itself, apart from becoming a miner, or opening your own currency? — Agustino

Agustino, I am watching what my two Indians are doing with BitCoin and Ethereum how the systems will work with a little skin in the game. My eldest Indian has invested $100.00 in BitCoin while my younger Indian has been mining and nothing but "mining" in Ethereum.

In the last month we have gotten two calls from our younger Indian telling his older brother to sell and sell now. But before days end, he called and said if he didn't sell tell him to hold off. That sounds more like a day trader who has the time and desire, to closely monitor the movements. I keep giving the sage advice my parents did of taking out your original investment and only work the profit, never the initial investment.

All this happening while NicK who does IT for a living is kicking himself for not buying into BitCoin when it first began because we would no longer have to be working the ranch but rather investing in our "Next" which is a Bed and Breakfast deep in the woods of Northern Arizona. What can we say? Other than damn...would have, could have, should have...

I think it is quite appropriate and it appeals to the Wild West attitude in me, when they call those who want to only invest their time and energy for a little piece of the gold, miners. It is really cool to see what the Pioneers of this new way of exchanging monies are having to navigate and I must say, it is very okay with me to let the "NEXT" generation take the lead on this one.

@simian1
Welcome to The Philosophy Forum!
We are glad you are here~
Enjoy your stay~
Tiff

A respectful tone is merely desirable, and being disrespectful is not always a case for action by the moderators. However, it seems fair to expect moderators themselves to live up to what is desirable, and to almost always be respectful. — jamalrob

I personally appreciate your desires jamalrob but I have not found 'respectful' to be the case when moderator(s) insist on addressing myself and other forum members in a demeaning and/or condescending way, repeatedly.

@MonfortS26
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@Oliver Purvis
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Yes, because that's the worse you have to worry about your teenage son doing at college. — Michael

Geez I hope so. :-O

My only concern is that the college he is at is high tech enough that I worry about the students commandeering farms of computers not in use overnight.

I'm pretty sure the electricity cost is going to be more than the amount earned from mining — Michael

;) He is away at college

@Qurious
Welcome to The Philosophy Forum!

I'd say just wait it out for a week and see what happens. Or jump in and enjoy the ride. — fishfry

If I had the money to lose I would be jumping in but my conservative underpinnings keep the dollar earned in my pocket. However my Indian who is only mining might be gently surprised. (Y)

Ms Gladys Knight and The King himself

I thought I heard that BitCoin was going to be traded on Chicago's Mercantile Exchange starting tomorrow 12.11.17 but I read now it is set for next Monday.
Does that mean that if we are going to invest in BitCoin as opposed to Ethereum we should do it by next 12.18.17?

Heh, I didn't mean to sound like a preachy douche, but after years of conspiracy theorists telling me that the American government owes $1.50 for every $1.00 the Zionist owned Federal Reserve "lends" them, I've been eager to put my research to work. — VagabondSpectre

I was serious in my Thanks and I hope you took it that way as that is how it was intended. I feel a great deal of comfort in surrounding myself with people that are smarter than I, in fields I know a little to none of, than faking that I know something. I am here to learn and I appreciate you taking the time to explain it to me.

The Federal Reserve doesn't print actual money though, it lends digital credit to it's member banks and charges them variable interest rates (which makes the member banks more financially secured, and influences the interest rates they charge as a regulatory force). So rather than the FED banks lending to the American government in the way the BoE lent to the King, they lend to banks who lend to the public in order to positively influence overall stability. Without the FED, banks at large might start drastically altering interest rates in response to perceived economic crises, which can create a genuine crisis in and of itself. — VagabondSpectre

I wish the banks were not as large as they are. I have been named in 4 class action lawsuits with Wells Fargo and when they charged the loan to my ranch, I was a victim of predatory lending. My husband and I filled out our paperwork, came into sign the final copy and between the time I filled out the paperwork and the final copy prepared, I was marked as being a Latino and so was then charged an increase in mortgage rate for 10 years. I get one letter from the Department of Justice asking two questions and in answering them I would be paid the difference between a normal loan and a Latino loan, in the amount of $9k to $13k. Two questions: Have you been the owner of the said address for the last 5 years or more. Yes. Question: Are you Latino? Ummm, well my file has been handled as a Latino, I have been screwed over by Wells Fargo like the Latinos, so no I am not Latino but I have been handled as one.

After months of debate with Wells Fargo and DOJ, the bottom line was, that even though I DID NOT mark myself as Latino, the final paperwork I signed said I was Latino and that was the final determination. So I said okay than pay my rightful claim as a Latino and the DOJ said I could not be included in the class action because I was not Latino and I would need to sue Wells Fargo on my own. After a year of this pursuit I stopped banging my head on the wall.

The next letter I get from Wells saying I am a participant in the latest class action, I am walking into my branch and asking for a Punch card because surely after your 6th Class action lawsuit you should at least get a toaster, right?

@antinatalautist
Welcome to The Philosophy Forum!

@Posty McPostface
As with most things in life, NASA has morphed and changed to stay up with the times. We know enough about the Moon that it is time to take it to the next level of man's evolution which is to make the Moon into a travel destination. It isn't my idea nor my desire but that is usually how it happens and I have a great deal of confidence in this idea. So make reservations and start packing so you can go see what only a few have experienced.

@Agustino @VagabondSpectre Thank you for sharing your knowledge with me. It gives me a sense of comfort knowing I am around people smarter than I. (Y)

Brrrrrrrr it's a chilly 68* and we are in jackets, gloves and hats!

"It's about trust" he said. "No other currency can be trusted like Bitcoin can, America can just print as many American dollars as it pleases. — VagabondSpectre

This is such an accurate perspective on those investing in Cryptocurrency. Which is why I asked what the USA dollar was backed by because it USED to be backed by Gold bullion but that is no longer the case and as you suggest, we can keep printing it as we need it but eventually it will become worthless on the world stage.

Time for a small anecdote. When I was around 13 I saw two guys indecently touching a girl around the toilet, who was telling them to stop, so I shouted at them, and when they heard they all ran away, including the girl. Naturally, after that I had an interesting story to tell, which I told other people around the school, and soon the news spread. Suddenly one day the principal came in class and picked me out of there, and said "given your actions, I don't think you should really be in our school anymore" and he took me in a room alone with himself, questioning me on what I had done. Instinctively, I knew to be as vague as possible, and give as few clear answers as possible. So he got tired of interrogating and threatening me at one point, and brought the girl and the two guys in the room. That's when I first realised what this was all about. Then they started to say - all of them, even the girl (probably cause she was embarrassed) - that I started spreading false rumours about them through the school about this and that. So I was very angry at that point, but I instinctively understood that I had to lie to escape, since there was no possibility of convincing the principle that two guys actually tried to rape the girl in school, when even the girl wasn't admitting to it. I also knew I had my youth on my side, so if I only apologised and admitted to fabricating the whole thing, even if it was true, I would be let go of. So I said that I was very stupid, that I thought it would be a funny joke, that I'm dearly sorry and will never do a similar thing in my life, basically begging everyone to forgive me. My aim was to (1) not be expelled, and (2) avoid getting the principal to contact my parents. And I succeeded. If I had chosen a different strategy, my life would probably have been very different today. — Agustino

Respect to you Agustino and may you feel secure in Karma taking care of the others.

I didn't say that people ought to have sex at that age, I just said that they should be allowed to decide on it. — Agustino

So if I was your daughter at age 15 and you saw a 23 yr old man courting me, would you condone our relationship?

Think of yourself at 14. Do you honestly say that you lacked the cognitive capacity to understand what sex involved and the consequences? — Agustino

I am sorry but at age 14 even though I had the cognitive capacity to understand what sex involved, there is NO way that I could have EVER understood the lifelong consequences.
So much so that at age 15, my first was 23 and I thought I was in love forever. Now I see the difference between a lady at age 15 and the male interest at 23 was not healthy and never will be.

Trying to ruminate — believenothing

First let me say that I am glad you shared and I hope you find this a safe place to do so, for without sharing there is no way to know one another.
I quoted you above because it made me wonder if you are trying to ruminate or trying to stop ruminating. I am the opposite in that without medication I have a great deal of difficulty in not ruminating. I have learned skills and tools to deal with through CBT Cognitive Behavioral Therapy but nothing put the ruminating to bed until the addition of medication.
I hope you read this and understand that you are in no way alone in your challenge but as long as you keep talking, keep thinking, there is no way you cannot grow to a greater understanding of yourself, which is why many of us are attracted to Philosophy.
Warmest regards,
Tiff

@MaraviRasmussen
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Enjoy your stay~

Once again I ask, which came first the Cryptolock or the Cryptocurrency? Cryptocurrency became the vogue way of paying off the ransom to those who Cryptolocked their systems. I am pretty sure that the very lock I am speaking of was attempted at PF but there was no money to be had, so they unlocked it and moved on but not before making financial requests of Paul while holding the forum hostage.

Bit Coin or Ethereum are just like any other currency but it's value is the same the world over. As I understand it, the currency exchange market isn't necessary when using Cryptocurrency. So if I were to travel with my BitCoin Visa card from the USA to Mexico, I won't need to exchange my dollars into Pesos which cuts out the middle man, along with not being bound by Federal laws here in the states.

Every time I question how it can remain legal as it feels like it is subverting the Federal law, I am told that it would be like the USA trying to manage the Euro or the Peso, it cannot be done because it is an international currency.

"It is just the choice of payment which has changed from conventional fund transfer methods to bitcoin due to the ease of transactions, pseudonymity and transparency"

@SnowyChainsaw
Welcome to The Philosophy Forum! We all started at different points on our Philosophy journey so feel free to relax and share. This is an amazing forum with a lot of awesome thinkers. Enjoy your stay ~
Tiff

@Galuchat
Welcome to The Philosophy Forum!

How can we get AI to be safe? — Perdidi Corpus

Someone is going to have to set the ethical guidelines as far as AI in practical applications like self driving cars. Humans are going to have to run scenarios through logarithms and come up with acceptable perimeters with a cost/risk ratio. Factors of how many people are in the self driving car versus the motorcycle carrying two people and who survives if a fatal accident is about to occur. And if "IF" the passengers of the self driving car survive and the cycle riders were to die? I would anticipate a lawsuit that would put those human choices, programmed into the self driving car through it's paces. Until then AI is like the Wild West where anything goes until someone challenges it.

@bloodninja
Welcome to The Philosophy Forum!

@sime
Welcome to The Philosophy Forum!

@Baden
If I may ask you, this is written on the site guidelines page which you posted, so my guess is you are the best to answer it.

Let me first say that there is a motto in NY and America in general, called "See something, say something" and although I agree whole heartedly, I have often wondered exactly what I am looking for because it is often an existential threat, not a visible backpack with wires hanging out.

So I read this: Tone matters:

A respectful and moderate tone is desirable as it's the most likely to foster serious and productive discussion. Having said that, you may express yourself strongly as long as it doesn't disrupt a thread or degenerate into flaming (which is not tolerated and will result in your post being deleted).

And so here too I wonder what the difference is between "flaming" someone and with speaking with someone in a "condescending" manner? Could you please offer me an example of what would be considered "flaming" as opposed to speaking to someone in a "condescending" manner? I ask this in all seriousness, so please answer in kind. It will allow myself and others to clearly understand what it is that we can be banned for.

Good! Because if one more person says that I am incapable of being a bitch, I am going to seriously have to look over my personality! It is almost a sin to be born and raised in Chicago and not be capable of going from 0 to bitch in 10 seconds flat! ;)

Although I love Tiff to death, she's too nice — Benkei

Thank you for your love dear friend, as I treasure that more than any moderator position, as goes with many of my fellow forum members that I call friends. However I must admit that this is the third time in my life that I have been told that "Tiff" is not capable of a, b or c because "she's too nice".
Do you really think I am incapable of being a bitch?

One of the poems I love to say out loud is called
Pioneers! O Pioneers!
"Come my tan-faced children,
Follow well in order, get your weapons ready,
Have you your pistols? have you your sharp-edged axes?
Pioneers! O pioneers!

For we cannot tarry here,
We must march my darlings, we must bear the brunt of danger,
We the youthful sinewy races, all the rest on us depend,
Pioneers! O pioneers!

O you youths, Western youths,
So impatient, full of action, full of manly pride and friendship,
Plain I see you Western youths, see you tramping with the foremost,
Pioneers! O pioneers!

Have the elder races halted?
Do they droop and end their lesson, wearied over there beyond the seas?
We take up the task eternal, and the burden and the lesson,
Pioneers! O pioneers!

All the past we leave behind,
We debouch upon a newer mightier world, varied world,
Fresh and strong the world we seize, world of labor and the march,
Pioneers! O pioneers!

We detachments steady throwing,
Down the edges, through the passes, up the mountains steep,
Conquering, holding, daring, venturing as we go the unknown ways,
Pioneers! O pioneers!

We primeval forests felling,
We the rivers stemming, vexing we and piercing deep the mines within,
We the surface broad surveying, we the virgin soil upheaving,
Pioneers! O pioneers!

Colorado men are we,
From the peaks gigantic, from the great sierras and the high plateaus,
From the mine and from the gully, from the hunting trail we come,
Pioneers! O pioneers!

From Nebraska, from Arkansas,
Central inland race are we, from Missouri, with the continental blood intervein'd,
All the hands of comrades clasping, all the Southern, all the Northern,
Pioneers! O pioneers!

O resistless restless race!
O beloved race in all! O my breast aches with tender love for all!
O I mourn and yet exult, I am rapt with love for all,
Pioneers! O pioneers!

Raise the mighty mother mistress,
Waving high the delicate mistress, over all the starry mistress, (bend your heads all,)
Raise the fang'd and warlike mistress, stern, impassive, weapon'd mistress,
Pioneers! O pioneers!

See my children, resolute children,
By those swarms upon our rear we must never yield or falter,
Ages back in ghostly millions frowning there behind us urging,
Pioneers! O pioneers!

On and on the compact ranks,
With accessions ever waiting, with the places of the dead quickly fill'd,
Through the battle, through defeat, moving yet and never stopping,
Pioneers! O pioneers!

O to die advancing on!
Are there some of us to droop and die? has the hour come?
Then upon the march we fittest die, soon and sure the gap is fill'd.
Pioneers! O pioneers!

All the pulses of the world,
Falling in they beat for us, with the Western movement beat,
Holding single or together, steady moving to the front, all for us,
Pioneers! O pioneers!

Life's involv'd and varied pageants,
All the forms and shows, all the workmen at their work,
All the seamen and the landsmen, all the masters with their slaves,
Pioneers! O pioneers!

All the hapless silent lovers,
All the prisoners in the prisons, all the righteous and the wicked,
All the joyous, all the sorrowing, all the living, all the dying,
Pioneers! O pioneers!

I too with my soul and body,
We, a curious trio, picking, wandering on our way,
Through these shores amid the shadows, with the apparitions pressing,
Pioneers! O pioneers!

Lo, the darting bowling orb!
Lo, the brother orbs around, all the clustering suns and planets,
All the dazzling days, all the mystic nights with dreams,
Pioneers! O pioneers!

These are of us, they are with us,
All for primal needed work, while the followers there in embryo wait behind,
We to-day's procession heading, we the route for travel clearing,
Pioneers! O pioneers!

O you daughters of the West!
O you young and elder daughters! O you mothers and you wives!
Never must you be divided, in our ranks you move united,
Pioneers! O pioneers!

Minstrels latent on the prairies!
(Shrouded bards of other lands, you may rest, you have done your work,)
Soon I hear you coming warbling, soon you rise and tramp amid us,
Pioneers! O pioneers!

Not for delectations sweet,
Not the cushion and the slipper, not the peaceful and the studious,
Not the riches safe and palling, not for us the tame enjoyment,
Pioneers! O pioneers!

Do the feasters gluttonous feast?
Do the corpulent sleepers sleep? have they lock'd and bolted doors?
Still be ours the diet hard, and the blanket on the ground,
Pioneers! O pioneers!

Has the night descended?
Was the road of late so toilsome? did we stop discouraged nodding on our way?
Yet a passing hour I yield you in your tracks to pause oblivious,
Pioneers! O pioneers!

Till with sound of trumpet,
Far, far off the daybreak call—hark! how loud and clear I hear it wind,
Swift! to the head of the army!--swift! spring to your places,
Pioneers! O pioneers!

Yes but you need to remember first and foremost, your own self preservation for without that you are of no help to anyone. Remember that you are the child and they are the adults and as much as we would like to heal our parents, it is for them to do, not us.
I use the word "us" intentionally because I have been where you are and nothing you do will be "enough" so you are better off putting yourself first, gaining that inner strength and growing through this. If it is any help, what you are enduring now is change, this is what change feels like, this is what change looks like but remember we usually come out stronger for having endured that storm of change. Try using the same words to both parents, repeatedly, such as "I am no longer capable of getting involved. You need to talk to each other". AND WALK AWAY You need to walk away for your own self preservation, until you have a safe place to unwind, free of both parents, a consistent place whether that is an apartment with a roommate or the Priest at the corner church. There is a community of help around you, you just have to look for it and when you find it, have the courage to say that you need to get out of what has become a very toxic relationship in demise. As a son, if you really have concern for your mothers safety if you are not there, then walk into your police station and talk to them, let them know what is going on. They are our community leaders and they are incredibly helpful if you come to them in a time of peace, rather than them arriving at your Mom's home with a weapon involved, I promise you.

I second Wosrets advice.