How are things going?

It's not an attack. It's a prediction. I predict you can't avoid the consequences of an overloaded medical system if you are a medical professional. It's essentially a mathematical certainty at this point. — boethius

You can state what you believe to be fact without personal attacks. Saying you get what you deserve was stated in a personal way to Frank.
Own it and apologize or own it and not apologize. Either way it's a reflection on you.

I wish your patients luck. As for you personally, you'll get what you deserve in this situation. — boethius

I have no idea who you are but remaining humble is my suggestion for a start on how to deal on an interpersonal level with others.

What I quoted above is a direct attack on a fellow thinker who also happens to be on the front line of this war so either say something positive to another member or say nothing at all.

What a small person to attack someone trying to help others, pathetic.

AND as far as doing the best we can with what we have and what we know IS the best many of us can do.

Just back off the personal attacks and we might just get somewhere POSITIVE.

And Frank, my every energy is with you and you wife to help keep YOU safe.

Good energies surround you from me :pray:

He’s angry the CCP was blaming the American military for the pandemic. — NOS4A2

We are going to have plenty of time to point fingers, LATER.
You are not on the same page as humanity if you cannot look past our political differences at a crisis moment like this. Enough of the bs and I include our President in that group of "us".

You have no idea how absolutely Thankful I am that you have expressed this idea. :flower: :flower: :flower:

Shawn I tried to leave this response on your idea about clearing cells using a theory you have and by the time I tried to post it, the thread was gone so I will leave it in your PM and do as I suggested and indeed pass it on to a friend in the field.

I would like to have access to a copy of your OP so I can pass it on,

Keep on truckin lady. You'll beat them number yet. :up: — Sir2u

My head hurts, literally :angry:

Still humming through Algebra!!!!! :shade:

:shade: Nancy Pelosi :zip:

Nope! I'm still here! Youngest Indian is getting out of quarentine at college! It turns out he has Influenza B ! Yippie might not be the right response but when they are ruling out the Coronavisus? Yippee to just Influenza B :party:
Yes he is sick working on 10 days now but he is on the mend!
Whew Mom's can freak something fierce!
:flower:

I think all this stuff is decreasing confidence in the government, which might be a good thing. — frank

I am not sure it decreases my confidence in the government. Maybe I am niave in thought or my hopeless romantic belief in the good in others is misleading me because I am pretty confident that if we were ever to be without a working government our collective desire to thrive would guide us until we created a new form of governing.

I guess what I am trying to say is that "we" are the government so if "it" appears to be changing, it is actually a reflection of the changes happening or not happening in you, me, Hanover and.... the slice of society we are supporting each day.

The theater is going to come to a close, but everyone knew how this movie ended anyway, regardless of what plot twists might have happened along the way. — Hanover

I want my money back. :roll:
The movie is never better than the book. Close this chapter, put it on the shelf and wait for the next one.

"Another turning point, a fork stuck in the road, time grabs you by the wrist, directs you where to go..."
Good Riddance

Eye gouging is my latest condition from listening to Adam Schiff :monkey:

Quick question:
Is "trolling" a high crime?

I am looking closer into Andrew Yang right now.

I have a problem with the first question. — Noah Te Stroete

Thank you for being informed and suggesting a possible blend of the options.

Is it possible for you to still entertain the other questions?

Why would I rather be other than I am? I’ve tried being other people, but it never works out. :wink: — Noah Te Stroete

What a very refreshing attitude. I am finding myself gravitate more and more towards those who are at peace with who they are and where they are in life. :flower:

Maybe a stud muffin?
:strong:

It's still a true statement. :yum:

slutty puppy — Noah Te Stroete

Ooohh touche Noah! Well played. :clap:

eh. There's a crowd I won't bother with anymore. There's no profit in it. — frank

Mind if I am part of the crowd? I promise I won't start a food fight :wink:

Well, I was kind of drunk when I wrote it (I am more drunk now.)

I take issue with the notion of indirect responsibility though because it seems to be essentially hollow: perhaps a village or a town bears some abstract "responsibility" for a school shooter.

Ultimately, the responsibility falls on the perpetrator. And I'm not blaming iran for this one; I do believe it was an honest mistake. — BitconnectCarlos

Hiya BitconnectCarlos and welcome to The Philosophy Forum :flower: One of the rules is to refrain from posting while telling us you are inebriated. Such as others are at times posting under some influence but advertising it weakens your position and over time it starts to affect opinions.

Having said that:
My feeling is that the ultimate responsibility lays directly at the feet of the airline. Period. Full stop.
If the Ukraine ATC said that the airline was clear to fly and planes were not grounded by the government than again, the direct responsibility is on the airline and the pilots. Yes, the Pilots have final say if it is safe to fly the plane in the present conditions. True as it may be that the pilot had the choice to fly the plane or die because there was a gun to his head and they would have brought on another pilot until they found a willing pilot but...
Ultimately that pilot payed the price with his life and those he CHOSE to fly safely to their destination.
It's utterly heartbreaking and I suggest it was an accident with the caveat that it was as a result of the fog of war
Yeah it's a platitude and one that affects me through one degree of separation. I know war from a distance from my Uncle serving 33 years from Vietnam to Desert Storm. And with a son surrounded by AFROTC classmates at one of the top Aeronautical Universities in the USA that is not a military institution, my fear level rises accordingly.
Please leave it as an accident and acknowledge the Iranian families that know their government is responsible for the death of their loved ones lost. We are grieving with them and hope the anger that comes with grieving is channeled into am internal rise up. My Iranian friend who escaped an arranged marriage after 7 years in the USA expressed to me that she wishes President Trump keeps the pressure on, even light of this accident.
It has the markings of an unintended consequence and I hope our President keeps that at the forefront of his mind.

Question: why do we talk about Trump, but not Putin's persecution of homosexuals or Chinese concentration camps? — frank

Ducking >>>>

I'll ask you what I asked NOS4A2 and didn't get much of an answer, how will Trump prevent Iran acquiring a nuclear bomb? — Punshhh

I believe that it would be naive to think that Iran does not already have a nuclear bomb. Knowledge obtained can rarely be eliminated.

In fairness, you take a lot of flak on Trump from just about every angle and manage to stay remarkably good-natured about it, which is admirable. And with 15 small businesses, I imagine you have headaches enough on your plate. — Baden

Thank you kindly Baden :flower:

At the moment on Iran, I'm at the thank-fuck-nobody-else-had-to-die stage. Hope it stays like that for the forseeable. — "Baden

From your lips to God's ears :pray:

Again I refer you (@ArguingWAristotleTiff) to my question (b) from a prior thread. GOP - otherwise loyal tRUMPkins - Senator Lee, R-UT & Senator Paul, R-KY (so far) seemed to have answered. Nakedly shameful wreckless disregard for U.S. national security by your president, Tiff (et al). Is this shitshow what you 'voted' for? :roll: — 180 Proof

I have found comfort in the past from the collective experience and knowledge that is the filter for some politicians including Ron Paul, Joe Liberman, my beloved Maverick and by extension, to a degree Rand Paul when it comes to national security. So I was surprised by Rand's response after being briefed on what the intelligence was before action was taken.

You keep asking if "this" is what I "voted" for which is the same question I am asked from my 20 yr old indian. He takes the question one step further in constantly measuring "When/what will President Trump have to do/or done "enough" to get you to not vote for him again/or regret voting for him to begin with?"

I cannot change the past and when I assess the three year impact of my current choice which includes 20k increase in my personal/small biz taxes over two years, a loss in combined Pell Grants for both myself and my indian and a noticeable increase in the cost of every day goods.

At the same time two of our 15 small businesses that we care for are being hit hard by the tariffs with China, though they have found other sources at a higher price and the pain from the tariffs is easing.

Three of our businesses have had record years for the past two years and with a loosening of a few more regulations we anticipate a new sector of small businesses opening up in the near future.

I don't have an answer to your question nor do I have one for my indian. The question is a complex one for me. In the past two years we have been able to refinance the ranch to utilize the equity to pay my surgeon $36k in cash for my procedure and that is with my insurance picking up their portion of $2k.

We could go off into the weeds of our health care system but for this thread I shall refrain.

Regret? Not yet. Possible change in vote this November? Possible.

Ah contrair, mon amie - he's very much mine too! Thus, my visceral - and vociferous - critical reactions to him. But you mistake my rhetorical emphasis for disavowal when really I'm just trying to keep front & center that it's (MAGA-supporters like) you who claim tRUMP (so much more than the majority of Americans - me included) enough to defend his indefensible conduct. Yeah I claim him as "my president", Tiff, and accept my duty, in solidarity with my fellow citizens, to resist (i.e. civilly disobey) tRUMP's pathological perfidy & various abuses of power in the near-term and hold him criminally, constitutionally & electorally accountable in the long-term. So yeah, "my president", my national disgrace, My Cosmopolitan Duty to take out the presidental trash! Care to join me, chère? :flower: — 180 Proof

Such a beautiful opening to an appeal to my emotional side that might just sway me :flower: I shall update my interpretation of your regard for our Commander in Chief.
I would enjoy such a stroll in todays weather with a mind that could feed my intelligent hunger.
But I should tell you in advance that I am of the valition that as long as we keep moving forward as a nation, the resistant trash will remain stagnant and eventually get so aromatic that it begins to compost in place. :fire:
On the bright side it is a renewable form of heat and energy :sparkle:

I could see the difference between the two and voted appropriately with that knowledge.

A "junk yard dog" hnmmmmm.....

What breed are we talking?

I am not the one labeling him a terrorist:
"Even so, the Pentagon said “General Soleimani was actively developing plans to attack American diplomats and service members in Iraq and throughout the region.” It pointed out that Iran’s Revolutionary Guard is a “US-designated Foreign Terrorist Organization,” and added that Soleimani and his Quds Force “were responsible for the deaths of hundreds of American and coalition service members and the wounding of thousands more.”

If someone assassinated Bush Jr for his part in the Iraq war, would you consider that justice? What about stormin' Norman? Does he deserve to die? And can't we do away with Trump for his betrayal of the Kurds? Or is your rule that only American lives matter (because you can be sure that most Iranians have exactly the same view only in the inverse). For me as a neutral military leaders are in the same broad category⁠—people whose job is to kill in the interests of their country. Is there some reason I should think differently? You have to take a step back from your position on one side or the other to make a convincing moral argument. Otherwise, we're just talking about strategy, which is fine, but let's make that explicit. — Baden

Come on Baden, no my position is not that only American lives matter.

Prude. — Michael

Omg! My indian that didn't even know the word before preparing for this Vegas trip! He heard NicK say that to me as I was laying down the out-of-state-where prostitution is legal- laws and without skipping a beat looked at me and called me a prude! :scream:

Now you might think that is a scream in terror for being seen that way by my genetic gentleman but you would be mistaken. I have worn the title with pride many times in life. :100:

Have I missed something as a result of the occasional, appropriate act of prudence?

I mean if you had to choose between being a prude like me or a slutty puppy like @Hanover which would you choose?

I deffered my response to you by responding to 180. :shade: Come on Baden, you can do better :sparkle:

I've always supposed that people voted for Trump because they really did not know what he is. After all, most folks have little or no experience with his degree of evil or the potential of its toxicity. But you say you knew. If that's true, then shame on you! Your vote was a disgrace! For so many reasons and in so many ways! Here, take a lesson: the bad man is not going to be good to you or for you. And if he's bad enough, even the two+ thousand miles between you and him will not protect you - and Trump has already been that bad! — tim wood

Sorry if my honesty is surprising to you but I try to be as honest as possible. I don't consider what the popularity factor is when it comes to choosing my positions or my President.

What I knew about Trump before his run for president probably fits in the same thimble size cup as what I knew about President Obama. That is to say that I believe I can see "hustle" when it's headed my way and both are Master Hustler's. One came from my home town and the other comes from the city of BIGGLY town but both are Hustler's.

Is considering a Presidential candidates "hustle" factor important to me? When I can see it? You betcha :wink:

So it doesn't trouble you - a patriotic American - that president sold out his country's national security in the ill-advised attempt to personally benefit from extorting a foreign power to "dig-up oppo-research" on a political rival? — 180 Proof

The whole "But he did it first so I have to respond harder" is not my personal mantra. I have never been in a fist fight but I have always believed that if I was pushed to that point, I would be the one to end it.
Having said that I believe that not all are Doves nor are all Hawks. Is my (duely noted that you do not consider the President of the USA as yours despite living here) President not doing exactly as he said he would do?

Do you really think the same president who assassinated the second highest official of a sovereign state (& regional hegemon!), and who also took credit for it publicly (self-incriminating testimony against interest with respect to Executive Order 12036 - evidence of guilt: lack of prior notification to both NATO Allies (or even Israel, Saudi Arabia, et al in the region) abroad & the Congressional "Gang of Eight" at home ... for starters), only then to threaten, again publicly, to follow-up that strategically useless act with a campaign of no less than "52" war crimes (i.e. Violations of International Law according to the Geneva Convention, to which the United States is a treaty signatory) if that assassinated official's regime retaliates (or responds in kind - which they may yet do as per "eye for an eye" logic, etc) is now acting to make his country safer and not just, as usual, trying to distract (this time) from his pending trial in the U.S. Senate with another self-inflicted crisis? — 180 Proof

Are noted terrorists "assisnated" or are they killed?

No, I do not believe that we are seeing a "Wag the Dog" scenario play out.

What values and/or historical principles do you really think you're defending, Tiff, when you defend this president? — 180 Proof

I am not sure "historical principals" are serving the people as well as they once did. That can be seen across our society; a change in respecting and repeating our historical principals but that is for another thread and likely too controversial for the boards.

He's chosen the weak dick moment. Probably he was given little choice by those who know better. — Baden

:confused: I wonder if you will ever be able to give President Trump a chance. As "thinkers" we should be able to see both sides of a debate without fear of movement. As Aristotle taught us "It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain the ideas of others without accepting them as our own".

Has President Trump satisfied Aristotle's Challenge on Anger? "To become angry is easy - but to be angry at the right person, at the right time, for the right reason to right degree, that is not so easy."

In this particular case, with strike that killed Iranian Generalneral Qasem Soleimani, I think Aristotle's Challenge was satisfied long ago and was delayed justice.

Based upon the above, The Last Word is the world's oldest thread. It's also a continuation of the old Last Word thread from the old PF, making it older than this Board itself. — Hanover

I would like to remind everyone that I got the Last Word on PF's thread of this title and plan on getting it on this thread as well!

Go ahead, try me :brow:
(Did you hear the Mom tone in that last line?)
Yeah it was weak but I am in bed with Zicam trying to get better before the boys return from the CES in Vegas. :mask:

By the way what is this show called the "Ten sex midgets" that NicK took them to immediately after checking in? Also a limo included in the the price of the show? Things that make a Mom wonder....

Chicks with dicks. Best of both worlds. — Michael

:monkey: This is just not the AWESOME I know!

Trump is an ignoramus who knows nothing about international or military affairs. There is no 'there' there behind the stupidities apparent in his interviews and his rallies. He wasn't even aware attacking cultural heritage sites was illegal. He indicated this himself in his most recent comments. Let that sink in Tiff. The commander-in-chief of the most powerful army in the world knows less about military affairs than the average man on the street. At least this time he has had the sense, after being put in his place by the Pentagon and others, to shut up and back off. He needs to leave this stuff to the experts in future. — Baden

Baden, our President has not been groomed to hold the office he currently holds and that is a double edged sword but one we knew before electing him to office. Let that sink in. We did not want status quo. We didn't want to continue look the other way when our embassy was being breached. We didn't want our ambassadors around the world to meet the same fate as John Christopher Stevens did in Libya.

What are you missing in our right to defend our citizens when the host country, charged with protecting our embassy and our people while in their country,.allows the embassy's perimeter to be breached?

Iran gave Trump the finger, but did it in a smart way. They've called his bluff with a direct and open attack on US military forces, but done it in such a way that Trump has virtually no support internationally for further action against them. So, if he doesn't retaliate after all his bluster he'll look weak and be diminished. If he does, he'll be starting a war that no-one, including Americans, want, that none of his tradiional allies bar Israel will support, that everyone will blame the US for, and that America will lose in the same way it lost in Iraq and Afghanistan. Stupid strategic mistake about to be punished. — Baden

:down:

Baden, President Trump is a personality that I think you misunderstand. If you listen closely you will hear that he "streams of conscious" when he speaks. It seems like when he is serious he is dismissed but the moment he is factious or sarcastic, chisel those words in stone.
President Trump is inconsistently consistent.
I am watching history being written as are you. The question is how will history see President Trump's actions? Will he be on the right side of history? Will the USA's Redline of harming a USA citizen or one of our allies pass snuff? If not where do you believe the Redline should be drawn?
Will you be on the right side of history?
Is there a "right" side that you can see from here and if so, what is it?
Should the USA have let the attacks dictated by Iranian General Qasem Soleimani continue?

If there is a war, look to Israel. Couldn't be better timing for Netanyahu. — Baden

I don't understand the correlation. I was under the impression that Israel was incapable of defending itself until recently when I was "enlightened" to how well armed Israel is. Which leads me to question what role you think the USA would play if Israel is attacked?