Would you say that morality is something other than judgments/assessments of behavior? Or is it that you think that judgments or assessments can occur outside of minds somehow? — Terrapin Station

I already gave my views of the extra-mental in I believe it was the “Horses are Cats” thread. Nothing we can speak about is truly extra-mental. Are you asking me if judgments or assessments can occur in the material realm? That seems silly.

Nothing to do with any teleological goals of society, unless you mean the survival of the community. Morality comes from society/socialization as we are inherently social creatures. Morality does NOT come from the individual. If it did, the world would look very much different. We probably wouldn’t even be having this discussion in such a world as the one you are claiming exists.

You are fundamentally mistaken about where morality stems from. It stems from the individual, from their moral feelings. I would stand by my moral judgement that murder is wrong, even if everyone else in the world judged it to be right. — S

How do you think socialization works? How do you think society works? If we were all lone wolves fighting for territory, this might make sense. As the human world is, it doesn’t make any sense.

:lol: The floods never receded where I live.

dog bless you

These are not the foothills of Mount Sinai, and no-one here is Moses. — Herg

I am not Moses, but I AM Noah, father of humankind. :razz:

I don’t think any good god would even care about it.

I capitalize proper names and such because I am an anal-retentive pedant when it comes to such things. I take no offense at other people’s punctuation, spelling, grammar, etc. I also tend not to get offended by other people’s speech or behavior as long as it isn’t too personal. When I do take offense to something, I try to ask myself why I am getting so upset.

My lack of motivation is unnatural.

Do you think the word of God is the truth: why or why not? — Joseph Walsh

It is difficult to know what God “says” or even if one can speak of Him in this way. If you believe that Jesus was God, then you can get some evidence from the New Testament, but there are also Gospels that didn’t make it into the Bible. My view is that figuring out the nature of God is a matter that is helped by studying various religions and philosophies, as well as science, maths, and humanities studies.

And of course, you have to get in on the act as well. — S

I couldn’t help myself.

That’s a very astute distinction.

Just don't understand the motivation for such comments. — Rank Amateur

I don’t know S personally, but maybe he’s bad at sports and was always picked last in gym class. Philosophy is his forum for defeating others and winning. At least in his mind.

But remember that in your task, you're the one who believes that Hitler did nothing wrong. I wouldn't even want to associate with you if that was really your view. — S

I thought that was odd, too. I suspected he mixed up his two statements.

Thank you for the thoughtful post. I agree about your point on theory worship.

So you are definitely a descriptive moral relativist. So am I. Are you also a meta-ethical moral relativist? I am not.

Will do

So you believe in moral truths? If so, then I have nothing to argue about.

Both together suffice for a moral truth.

That is meaningless without any moral feeling about it. — S

Moral feeling is a necessary condition. Harm to society is a necessary condition. I think both of them together is sufficient.

I should say that I believe that some moral sentiments are relative. Others are knowable moral truths. Child raping is wrong is a moral truth. Kosher diet is morally relative.

The foundation is the continuation of society, further founded in our nature as social creatures.

Apparently :ok:

:lol: When did I ever say anything about a literal Heaven?

And these childish attempts to trivialise moral relativism — S

Does your idea of what is morally wrong have anything to do with anything other than personal disgust? If so, then enlighten me please. Perhaps you can persuade me to your way of thinking?

I’m sorry if I hurt your feelings. I just wasn’t aware you had any.

:lol:

@Dfpolis? Thoughts?

when they conflict with sound argument/reasoning. — creativesoul

I’m sorry. Where can I find that?

I once walked seven miles in below freezing temperatures from a bar after-party with only jeans and a long sleeve T-shirt on. I did it out of necessity because I didn’t have a ride. I’m not sure if it was superhuman, but I was under the delusion that I was an X-man at the time. LOL

but our thoughts about things, our analysis on questions are not in this category — sandris

Okay. So what can we do differently? Some people are very skilled at thinking things. @andrewk, @fdrake, and others are way more talented than me in maths, but the world doesn’t really need ME to be better at maths.

I am just wandering what you think about he premise, that we have this almost unlimited potential and that fallowing this line of thought we could go for it — sandris

I would like to believe that, but I always get into trouble when I start believing I have superpowers.

I understand from several neuroscience articles and philosophy of mind books I’ve read that our neurons fire in a way that we act before we are consciously aware of it. What do you make of that?

so let’s think about what we think and what can we do to achieve greater and greater hights as individuals and as a human specie collectively! — sandris

You’re talking about herding cats basically?

I've downloaded the full paper from arxiv and will see what I can make of it. — andrewk

Cool. Perhaps @fdrake would like to give his thoughts as well?

It’s a bit like farting. Some people like to smell their own farts, everyone enjoys chuckling at the sound of it, and many are offended by the lingering stench.

It’s a helpful, and essential, release of potentially damaging noxious fumes :D — I like sushi

Now you’re speaking my language. :grin:

My interpretation of the article was that person one measured and the wave function collapsed. Person two didn’t measure, so to him the wave function didn’t collapse. Two separate realities.

@andrewk You’re too smart for us. I would like to hear your thoughts after reading the paper.

You seem to be confusing private meaning with shared/conventional meaning.

No. It always has meaning. One may just not know the meaning. That’s when they need to be educated.