Is that to say there is nothing extra-mental to speak of? — Mww

Not at all. It’s just impossible to speak of it.

it would appear that disrespect and low regard is an equal-opportunity problem. — Bitter Crank

That’s true. As someone on disability, I can attest to a general deficit of respect thrown my way. I’m sure @Wallows knows about this. Then again, I don’t think it would matter much even if I were gainfully employed. Like you said, disrespect is pandemic in our society.

I could be wrong about @T Clark. Maybe he fears that’s how the elderly are perceived. Or maybe that’s how he perceived the elderly before he became one.

Artists can be assholes in a non-authoritarian sense. They can be rude. But I suppose you might say Hitler was an artist. Touché. That doesn’t negate the essence or tenor of my point.

Noah, you intensified a "deficit" of respect to "despising" the elderly. Wallows and T Clark didn't use terms close to "despising". — Bitter Crank

You’re right. My bad. But, I stand by EVERYTHING else I said.

I wasn’t suggesting a dichotomy. Hence, my use of the term “lean”. There is a spectrum. @T Clark seems to lean authoritarian/Spartan/Randian/Nazi as opposed to Liberal/Athenian/Artist.

No. Philosophies have a “feeling” to them. Some lean Athenian. Some lean Spartan. Kind of like your choice of masculine vs. feminine.

If you want to go way back then you could even call it a Spartan mindset. — Wallows

For sure. Athenian vs. Spartan. Nazi vs. Liberal democracy. Asshole vs. Artist?

Isn't CBT based on the idea that our cognitive appraisals trigger particular affects? — Joshs

I don’t know enough about it, but that seems to me to be the philosophy behind it.

I am only contesting your stipulated definition that seems to be guided by some masculine guiding principle or force. — Wallows

I picked up on that, too. Makes me suspect he’s a Fox News watcher.

Those ARE really bad and ugly reasons for despising the elderly. Makes me wonder if the fascists that General Smedley Butler warned about really didn’t take things over after all.

My point was that if people really feel this way about the elderly, then there must be a lot of Nazi-esque themes in our society.

Or when someone argues that there are no extra-mental moral truths. As if you can even speak of something extra-mental. Poke—>@Terrapin Station

Heidegger, Eugene Gendlin and George Kelly are among the philosophers and psychologists who have abandoned the attempt to separate feeling-affect-emotion from cognition and reason. And following neurologists like Antonio Damasio, enactive embodided cognitive psychologists like Shaun Gallagher, Matthew Ratcliffe and Evan Thompson also see affect and cognition as inseparable at all levels of functioning.
Affectivity provides the sense, direction and significance of though, how and why things matter to us.
We think of intense emotion as 'irrational' when what those experiences represent are periods of a crisis of thinking, when our way of making sense are no longer effective and the world begins to appear incoherent, That is not a capture of intellect by emotion but a crisis in the intellect itself. We are anticipative creatures, and negative affects like far, grief, anger, and guilt signal transitions in our sense-making, when formerly effective schemes of anticipative comportment toward others and ourselves break down. That is why such affects are both painful and potentially creative. They represent where the limits of our understanding lie. — Joshs

That’s very interesting. It’s as if emotional breakdowns may have some evolutionary significance. Do you think that CBT is wrong-headed?

Assuming what you've written is true, here are some possible reasons:
Old people tend to be weak and vulnerable. It makes people uncomfortable to be around people like that because it reminds them of their own weakness and vulnerability.
Related to that - we all will be old someday. We are given a glimpse of our futures.
Many people are resentful of their parents and other authority figures.
Old people may be seen as an economic liability. This is true both within a particular family and in society as a whole.
Many of the values that grew out of an extended family don't apply anymore.
Changes in demographics mean there are more old people taking up more resources. — T Clark

This is a very Nazi-ish or at least Randian way of looking at society. What does that say about the educational system and mass media?

I feel like unequal distribution of property is just the natural order of civilization. However, it can be debated as to what degree the inequality should be. A more just society might have lower levels of inequality, but I feel like some inequality is necessary for a healthy functioning society.

What an odd idea. You think baby boomers were only white. — Brett

That’s Brett. Making us all uncomfortably aware of our own internal biases. :lol: :up:

:lol:

Actually, I just realized that I don’t know whether you’re a he or a she.

Mom! He yelled at me! LOL

I found that article interesting until it got to the complex numbers. Then I lost interest because I was too lazy to put in the mental work.

ha! One does have to prefer certain arguments over others all things being equal, though, I suppose.

rather than the wild and rambunctious limbic system. — Wallows

But like I said, the limbic system is crucial to making decisions. One could think about options all day long, but without an emotional value placed, you would go nowhere.

What do I think about it? Is it a technical term? Sometimes I get overly emotional. My limbic system overpowers my frontal lobe, and I make self-destructive choices.

Say, someone says the brakes on that car are good or the bones of that house are good. Does that simply mean that that person approves of them?
— Noah Te Stroete

Yes, it's a term of approval or preference. "Yaying," accepting, sanctioning, etc. the thing in question. — Terrapin Station

I tend to think it is more than just approval. If the bones of the house are “good”, then they are also in a state that tends toward structural integrity. It’s a hypothetical imperative. If one wants a sturdy structure, then one would want it to have “good bones”. Just as there are hypothetical imperatives, there is the Categorical Imperative. One does not say “if one wants a working society” though. Society is a given to social creatures as ourselves. So, in order for society to continue (something that’s objectively in our biological and cultural DNA), there must be duties to act or abstain, such as the duty to not boil babies.

I don't see it as picking on anything if I'm simply reporting the truth to you. ;-) — Terrapin Station

Happy to be given some truth from time to time.

I don't think we are strictly divided into emotional and rational. Both need to coexist and cooperate in an organic way. In other words, it's not about turning on the reasoning side and or the emotional side. In that sense, "emotional reasoning" may make sense, for all I know. Anyway, my two cents. — Kaz

As far as I understand the limbic system and the prefrontal cortex are supposed to work in tandem. Without emotions one wouldn’t be able to make decisions. The limbic system places emotional value to the logical choices governed by the prefrontal cortex. Or something like that.

Is that how you would describe a gravitational field or a magnetic field, as matter in action? I think this requires explanation. (I’m not picking on you in multiple threads. I’m just interested in these things.)

Say, someone says the brakes on that car are good or the bones of that house are good. Does that simply mean that that person approves of them?

How do you define “good”? Is something good merely in the capacity of someone approving of it?

which is just to make sure we dont say embarrassing things or stutter. — Akanthinos

Obviously, then, there is something going wrong in MY brain because I am repeatedly saying inappropriate things and fumbling over words. Fuck it, Dude. Let’s go bowling.

The categorical imperative ensures the working of society.

Because one has a duty to do babies no harm.

The categorical imperative

I borrow from a variety of religions/traditions, but I do what the Hindus suggest in that I adhere mostly to the religion of my upbringing, viz. Christianity.

You seem to be very sensitive and knowledgeable about animals. What is your background with them?

It's not true or false that cauliflower is good, — Terrapin Station

It’s true or false that cauliflower is good for nutrition, just as it’s true or false that boiling babies is good for society. A psychopath might enjoy boiling babies, but it is still morally wrong.

My view is that morality is evolved thought, and in that sense is a something and not a nothing, certainly more than an individual's mere opinion. — tim wood

I agree. I hold that morality is an emergent property of living in a society. There are at least some knowable moral truths. For example, you don’t boil babies. This is a moral truth, not just mere opinion where individuals feel disgust.

Institutions are extremely difficult to change. I don’t think you can blame society’s problems on any given generation when the institutions cross generations.

Just remember to double tap the zombies. Also, good cardio for running away. — Marchesk

:lol: