So mysticism and death can be considered good things by some people because there is no objective right and wrong. That's my understanding from you.

Life is the most important value if you want to live life. People who disagree don't interest me because they obviously don't care about themselves or the lives of others. This is for people who choose life. How do you pursue life properly? With reason. Why? Because you must live in accordance to reality and the only way to do this is with reason. You must observe with your senses and then use logic to make non-contradictory conclusions of reality. If you don't live in accordance to reality you destroy your ability to live happily and fully. For example, someone who believes in the after-life wastes their time and energy worshipping a God that doesn't even exist. Or a terrorist who believes he'll be rewarded in the after-life if he blows himself up. Or a hungry person who thinks that if preys to to a God that doesn't exist will deliver him food. Or someone who wishes and lives as if reality is a certain way when it is not. This is not a matter of judgment but of fact. There is a right and wrong if you care about your life. People who hold values based on faith or selflessness are incorrect, which means religious people hold the wrong values. People can only hold differing values as long as those values are aligned with their rational self-interest. Someone may value music and another person may value engineering, but they are both values that increase the quality of an individual's life. Religion asks you to accept a morality that is selfless, meaning a duty to your fellow brothers, and without reason because God and religious morality must be accepted without evidence or the use of logic.

So life isn't the most important value? And reason isn't mandatory to furthering one's life?

The universe is real and evident; it just wasn't created. Existence can't be created from nonexistence.

It's fine to disagree, but you should be more careful in how you approach this topic. You seem to just rush in head first with a shit load of controversial assumptions as if they're established fact! — S

What about them isn't factual?

These are just a string of bald assertions. — S

How?

We derive order from our own understanding of the universe. The universe is independent of order. What would be a disordered universe? By saying the universe has order, it's implying that a creator created the universe. The universe wasn't created.

Please explain how I have an inner voice of a fascist.

Good for you, I guess? I don't know what your point is.

The universe doesn't have order.

By observing it we obtain a sense of order and understanding of the universe.

What would a disordered universe look like? For example, things that can be both hot and cold at the same time. Or things that can go up and down at the same time. That kind of universe wouldn't exist. If it did exist and we lived in it, then we would obtain our sense of order from that universe.

I think this duality question is ridiculous.

I agree with everything you said except with the idea of existence being infinite. Existence is finite.

Because its a meaning that cannot be shared. Unique to the individual — emancipate

What they all have in common is that they value their life.

Not all reasoning is the same. People read holy books and take it on faith that the books are the best knowledge of life we can have. A few people willing to read the books, question the truth of what is said and look for evidence. That is a completely different level of thinking/reasoning. — Athena

Faith isn't reason though. Faith is irrational. There is only one kind of reason.

To think on the higher level requires training for abstract thinking. Unfortunately, that was dropped when we replace liberal education with education for technology. The masses are stuck with thinking on the concrete level and have no awareness of the abstract level of thinking. We lack an understanding of thinking and how our brains work. — Athena

No, everybody is capable of reason. Everyone has the choice to put their emotions aside, to observe reality, and to use logic to come to conclusions on reality.

Especially my Christian friends avoid math and science because they just don't want to make the effort of thinking. — Athena

That's their choice. It doesn't mean they can't.

They want authority over them and to be free of responsibility and just obey God's chosen authority over us. — Athena

I agree with that, absolutely.

Democracy is a huge responsibility they don't want. They want the lion king to return and restore paradise for them and they believe Trump is a great father for our country. :lol: Point- do we want democratic responsibility or a Great Father to rule us? We can reason in favor of either, but not of the reasoning will be high order reasoning. — Athena

What do you mean by democratic responsibility? I don't know how you're getting two kinds of reason. There's only one kind.

Yes, but living things depend on facts to survive.

Yes, albeit with the qualification that it's a matter of judgement rather than a matter of fact. I judge it to be inexcusable because of my values, whereas others judge it differently because they have a different set of values. There's not an objective right or wrong here in my view. — S

Why?

How is it not wrong to accept a truth without evidence? I understand that people judge things different because of different values, but it doesn't make their judgments correct.

In my view, ethics and aesthetics are subjective matters. — S

Aesthetics is subjective, sure. But ethics? I disagree. There is an objective morality. The standard of value that all individuals have is their own lives. Life is the most important value. Which means that everything that propels an individual's life forward is moral, and everything that doesn't is immoral. Reason, which is fundamental to the survival of your life, must be an objective moral value. It cannot be subjective.

A is A.
A cannot be B or whatever else.

Contradictions are impossible.

Thinking that a contradiction could happen or wanting to achieve a contradiction in reality will only lead to disastrous consequences.

It's evident that reality doesn't contradict itself.

Yep.

Consistent in what way?

How is it subjective?

It basically helps you reach conclusions in reality. By holding non-contradictory ideas.

With logic.

Why do you ask so many questions?

Yes. Making mistakes is part of discovering the truth.

No, it's all three of those. Consciousness, observation, and logic.

So you are agreeing with me. Right?

How do you come to know the truth? Do you discover it mystically? Or do you think it is impossible to know the truth?

Because I have consciousness that allows me to know the truth. Because I have a mind that can think about what I have observed.

No, when you observe reality you observe reality.

Yes. There is no other way of perceiving it.

Well yes, everyone must use reason to some degree or else they would be destroying their ability to live. But I don't think being religious and still being able to live in accordance to reality to an extent is an excuse to be religious.

Reason is observing reality and then applying logic to make sense of your observations. It's knowing the truth.

Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Sometimes suicide can be justified. But usually the sadness and hopelessness people experience doesn't last forever, so they should just hold out for a little longer until things get better. In the future, they won't be suicidal anymore.

In order for someone to sustain their life, they must live in accordance to reality. The only way to know reality is with the use of reason. People who try to know the truth by other means suffer for it because they don't live in accordance to reality.

We can only know what is true with the use of reason.

Luck plays very little to nothing when it comes to one's achievements. Which means anyone who achieves anything should be rewarded and celebrated.

The objective meaning of one's life is their own life.

What about left and right or up and down? How can someone only experience right or left, but not both?

Even if they somehow can only experience only right or only left, that doesn't mean a world, objectively speaking, can exist without dualities. Because the person's subjective view of having no dualities is subjective and not the real thing.

Many people place the meaning and purpose of their life on an outside source. That your life is only justified because something else approves or needs it. But I think that's a load of nonsense.

You don't have purpose because God created you. You don't have purpose because you reproduce to prolong the existence of humanity. You don't have purpose because you serve your country. You don't have purpose because you help other people. And it doesn't mean you lack purpose when you can't do these things. You don't lack purpose because you're a small speck in the universe.

The purpose of your life is your life. The purpose of other people's lives is their lives. To live life to the fullest and to be happy. Life is an end in itself.

Well first of all, no one can be kept in isolation in a happy place. That's impossible.

People can feel pain in so many different ways. Even if you live in a paradise, your pleasure can be thwarted. Especially if you're just lazing and loafing around doing nothing productive. You feel terrible for no reason. Suffering and pain is inevitable. You cannot be shielded from it.

True satisfactory happiness can only be achieved when one does suffer. But it's a positive kind of suffering. For example, someone slaving away at a creative project and then being overwhelmed with joy when they finally complete it.

Someone could pursue lowly hedonistic pleasure their entire life like drugs, sex, or avoiding hard work. But these people still end up suffering because they're constantly trying to fill up an empty void inside of themselves through instant gratification.

A good student is a student who pursues knowledge willingly and independently.