None. Life is not the kind of thing that has an 'after'. The idea itself is a conceptual mistake, like a square circle. It is not the kind of thing that even rises to the dignity of evidentiary search.

this is a particularly clear pop-explanation — Banno

Yeah, I particularly liked his use of Godel flash cards, as it were, to get the point across. Almost no pop explanations ever mention Godel numbers in their presentation of the results.

If God then [all sorts of magical woo].

Literally the laziest argument on the face of the earth.

It can't be argued against either, because God is simply a magical gap filler that can plug whatever hole, as needed. Bollocks.

It heartens me that arguments in support of Israel are, and can only be, as vapid and slimy as those advanced by those like TwoBit. Anyone with half a brain can see just how cynical, unprincipled, and craven are these miserable attempts to defend the indefensible. It's good to let them speak. They are their own ideological gravediggers, by virtue of opening their mouths.

I don't particularly care who I'm 'siding with' because I'm not an idiot who thinks labels mean anything whatsoever.

Ethnically cleanse as in murder? Or move? — BitconnectCarlos

Israel doesn't discriminate.

Was in ethnic cleansing when Israel forced Israelis to move out of Gaza in 2005? — BitconnectCarlos

Yes, obviously.

Ah, I see you've learnt the 'whatabout' trick from TwoBit.

Yep, because nothing justifies ethnic cleansing in the present. It's that simple.

Utterly irrelevant.

'The history of the demographics' are the Israeli settler colonists have continually displaced Palestinian populations in the West Bank by threat and exercise of violence.

Don't forget about Israeli settlers destroying Palestinian homes and livelihoods under the protection of Israeli security forces, who brutalize any Palestinian who dares fight back.

No need to refer to fictional laws. South Africa had real ones just like Israel's.

OK, you can start your own thread about Italy and Japan.

In the meantime, maybe we can talk about Israel's Basic Law, which enshrines racism at the constitutional level.

You got nothing. Got it.

So, back to how Israel is systematically engaging in ethnic cleansing both in and outside it's borders and apartheid within them.

oh you're telling me now that there's no institutional discrimination in japan or italy? — BitconnectCarlos

List out to me Japan's and Italy's apartheid policies. Go on.

And even if you did, btw, this would still not absolve Israel of it's being an apartheid state.

japan clearly isn't for the japanese people, italy couldn't possibly be for the italians — BitconnectCarlos

The 'Japanese people' and 'the Italian people' are anyone with a citizenship, all of whom are subject to the rule of law. This being unlike the theocentrism of the Israel state which accords non-Jews second-class citizenship and segregationist policies. Neither Japan nor Italy have compromised their democracies by institutionally discriminating against non-Shinto or non-Christian members of their own population. Unlike the apartheid state that is Israel.

Would it be the case that Japan or Italy did discriminate like Israel, they too would be shitty countries, deserving of unrelenting critique. But nice to see you continue with your world tour and your whataboutism with yet another poorly drawn comparison that again confirms the utter shitness of the Israeli state as it stands. Maybe you can tell me again about occupied East Germany and how Israel is just like it.

If you want a close analogue to Israel, it would be Iran - a theocracy that carries out acts of international terrorism.

In addition, Israel is held to a higher standard insofar as (1), it masquerades as a democracy, (2) it receives an incredible amount of ideological and material support from the 'western nations' which enable it in carrying out it's settler colonial policies, (3) Israel is a predator state whose unbridled aggression renders it entirely responsible for the misery it continues to inflict upon its subject population - and itself.

Additionally, an enthostate is definitionally racist. That's not some kind of contentious claim. That's just how words work.

But perhaps someone other can shed the light on this. — ssu

The Jewish historian Illan Pappe has a whole book documenting the Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine, which has not stopped to this day. And likely-Prime Minister elect Bennett is on record saying that he wants to annex 60% of the West Bank. So there's that.

Yeah God forbid that Israel carrying out ethnic cleansing and settler colonialism has anything to do with it. That the repose to: Israel is carrying out ethnic cleansing is: 'where are Jews supposed to live'?, then this is either an admission that a 'Jewish' state can only be founded on ethnic cleansing, or that one is simply ignoring the issue. Charitably, I'd like to think it's the latter, but in Israel itself, it's the nettle of the former that has been undoubtedly grasped.

Mmm, the alternatives aren't promising - which is to be expected from a state suffused with racism from top to bottom. But one can have some schadenfreude as a treat. I don't particularly think electoralism will solve this issue. South Africa - which similalrly had 'democratic elections' - is the model that Israel ought to be treated by: made an international pariah, shamed, santioned and embargoed. As befitting an aparthied state. It starts with the entire world recognizing it for what it is, and treating it like the toxic state it currently is.

Hi, this thread should only be for discussion of recent bans. Looks like we forgot to lock the thread! Do you mind either creating a new thread for this, or preferably, posting to this for discussion:

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/30/feature-requests

https://www.smh.com.au/world/middle-east/far-right-party-backs-coalition-against-benjamin-netanyahu-20210531-p57wj3.html

The snake's rein comes to an end. Turns out not even murdering a bunch of Palestinians - a tried and true election strategy - was enough to save his sorry hide. One can't say the same about Israel aparthied policies.

Of all the reasons to excuse the murder of children by Israel, antinatialism is probably my favorite - not only does it make people who defend Israeli actions look more insane than they already are, it shows up antinatalism for the utter trash heap of a notion that it is. Two birds, one stone.

Well America is an incomparably worse nation than Israel so one step at a time.

This is how apartheid begins to end.

He's been surprising on several fronts — Benkei

He approved $700m+ in arms sales to Israel right as it was committing its most publicly visible and remarked upon war crimes. He has not been surprising on this front. An enabler for genocide, nothing more.

In FP of all places, albeit from Stephen Walt, who has always been clear about Israel's pernicious relationship with the US:

https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/05/27/its-time-to-end-the-special-relationship-with-israel/

"Decades of brutal Israeli control have demolished the moral case for unconditional U.S. support. Israeli governments of all stripes have expanded settlements, denied Palestinians legitimate political rights, treated them as second-class citizens within Israel itself, and used Israel’s superior military power to kill and terrorize residents of Gaza, the West Bank, and Lebanon with near impunity...

A more normal relationship—one where U.S. support was conditional rather than automatic—would force Israelis to reconsider their present course and do more to achieve a genuine and lasting peace. In particular, they would have to rethink the belief that Palestinians will simply disappear and begin to consider solutions that would secure the political rights of Jews and Arabs alike... Most important of all, Israel would have to begin dismantling the system of apartheid it has created over the past several decades because even the United States will find it increasingly difficult to sustain a normal relationship if that system remains intact."

Not that any of this will happen under Biden, who is and has been as Israeli bootlicker from day 1.

They had no choice. Poor Israel. Fascist shithole.

There is literal segregation on roads, in schools, in legal systems, housing, access to finance, and so on - if there were no colonial territories - if Palestinian land didn't exist and there was no settler colonialism speak of - Israel would still be among the most racist states on the face of the Earth.

Yep. And the fact that everyone now recognizes the depravity of Israeli settler-apartheid policy can only have one possible outcome for a population as paranoid and unstable as Israel's: a doubling down and a ratcheting up of oppression, justified by the fact 'everyone's out to get it'. A predator increasingly backed into a corner is among the most dangerous of all.

The framing that Israel is 'responding' to anything is rubbish from the get-go. Israel is an settler-occupier state which has been steadily stealing land from a native population which it is subjecting to inhumane conditions. To the degree that Israel ought to 'respond' to anything, it is to cease its own land-grabbing and genocidal policies which condition from top to bottom the violence which it instigates as an agent of aggression.

Israel does not 'retaliate' - it hunts down resistance to its settler schemes with no thought given to who gets hurt in the process: in fact the more hurt the better, so as the break the will of its already devastated victims. This is the only way to explain the cruelty according to which it acts at every point. It is a predator state which cries victim any time its subject population dares show any sign of resistance, all the better to continue the cycles of misery which it deliberately propagates.

Apology is not in his vocabulary. He's Trumpian in that regard.

OK, show's over.

Hi, we don't allow either links or copy and pasted articles. However, if you'd like to use your article and modify it as the basis of a discussion, you are more than welcome to do so. Threads here ought to aim to facilitate discussion. You're welcome to try posting this again with the appropriate edits, or PM a mod to discuss this further.

God's teeth. What a horrible law, or I suppose I should say set of laws, since it appears more than half of the states in our Glorious Union have adopted similar provisions. — Ciceronianus the White

This is what happens when your glorious union is a pair of arms dealers and a hedge fund in a trench coat.

The globetrotter whatabouts again! Russia, the Netherlands - where will he go next that's not Israel? Find out next time on - avoid any discussion of Israel's crimes!

oppressed class to gain equality — BitconnectCarlos

Imagine thinking Palestinians want 'equality' and not Israel to stop their ethnic cleansing and crimes against humanity.

Genocided Palestinians aren't exercises, except for the Israeli air force. Something you indeed 'struggle' to talk about.

And 180 indeed doesn't play identity politics, because he's not a moral black hole.

Anyway, while Bit is playing fantasy imaginarium, perhaps we can talk about how Israel classified all the civilians it killed in its little murder spree as combatants, including the children.

Note the MO btw: East Germany, Japan, Ireland, The US - literally anything to divert attention away from Israel's ethnic cleansing. Don't fall for it. He is incapable of talking about Israel. Because his sophistries simply cannot address the real life genocide at work; they only work - and even then transparently and impotently - in the realm of sheer fantasy and imagined history.