No, fuck the mods, in this instance. i.e. Baden @jamalrob @StreetlightX @Hanover, etc. Fuck them for moving a thread that deals with universal problems to the lounge where no one will see it, and it will happily die. Fuck that shit. — Noble Dust

I mean, why do they get such special treatment....fuck everyone equally. If anything, fuck me most... know what I mean? And fuck "universal problems" most, those create more trouble than they're worth...its masturbation at best.

Not at all; as the mods well know, the lounge is where threads go to die. Hell, everyone knows that. — Noble Dust

Fuck what everyone knows

I'd be happy to hear a "non-cogent" argument if you have one to give. I'd probably respond in a similarly non-cogent manner. Non-cogency is sort of my speciality... — Noble Dust

Now you are putting me in a corner, I feel the pressure of producing a non-cogent argument, so if you insist further I will try my best. Until then, I will say that I look forward to seeing your specialization in the artform of non-cogent argument.

r

Give me a fucking break, who moved this to the lounge? Baden @StreetlightX @jamalrob @Michael @Hanover@fdrake

What a fucking disgrace to philosophy. — Noble Dust

Chill out dude. The lounge is the only place any real philosophy happens on TPF. It's an honor

Yeah, that was not a cogent explanation, so I would need one, in order to respond. — Noble Dust

Well, you did not specify that you required a cogent explanation. And in all reality, I'm really not qualified to offer anything cogent, whatsoever. So sorry.

Dammit, still at it. Yesterday, I went to the trouble of methodically purging all browser history pertaining to Philosophy forum, but old habits die hard. I'll probably get reborn in some cyber-hell comprising constant circular arguments. :confused: — Wayfarer

You are already here, slowly becoming what you are, and slowly becoming aware of where you are...simultaneously. It never ends, know what I mean. :wink:

But, don't quit. Finish the 20,000. And send me some of your philosophy writing rather than deleting it. I always love the Wayfarer wisdom.

Word, I'm cautiously with eternal return in the sense of reincarnation, maybe..?? Not sure what you mean otherwise. At least from what you quoted. — Noble Dust

Eternal return is not necessarily reincarnation. Reincarnation implies some sense of externelly accumulated progress. That would mean each lifetime would be unique unto itself, a butterfly effect, as it were. Eternal return is identical in every aspect, externally speaking...but insofar as the existing one is concerned, internally speaking, that is infinite in all possibility. I can explain more if you need explanation.

I've been quite drawn to Buddhism all my adult life. And contrary to popular opinion Buddhism teaches that there are hells - more than one! - into which beings are reborn due to their karma, where they remain for aeons of kalpas (= a very long time, Indian astronomers conceived of aeons in quite realistic terms).

Actually there are six realms into which beings are (constantly) reborn - hell realms, animal realms, hungry-ghost realms, 'demi-god' realms and heavenly realms. (None of these realms constitute Nirvāṇa which utterly transcends all realms, although in popular religion, Nirvāṇa is frequently imagined to be a kind of heaven.)

So what do I make of this? I don't claim to know, but I have a conviction that 'identity overflows physicality', as it were - that there is both a 'before' and an 'after' of the book-ends of this physical birth. This doesn't mean that the person I am now continues in another life. But whomever or whatever inhabits those other realms, they too are beings and they are born with an inherited past and what they do will propagate states of being into the future. I'm very vague on detail but I think something like Sheldrake's 'morphic resonance' could provide an explanatory medium (see here for example.)

If you read into the early Buddhist texts very little is said about it in detail; it's simply the assumed cultural background and the Buddha is, among other things, 'lokavidu', that is, 'knower of worlds'. This means he is able to foresee where beings are bound, but he too is generally extremely reticent about the details. (Early Buddhism, on the whole, is noticeably lacking in 'believe it or else' kinds of dialogue.)

In later buddhist iconography, the 'six realms' are graphically depicted in for instance the Tibetan Bhavachakra paintings (meaning literally 'wheel of becoming'. In classical Indian culture, travelling panditas would carry one of these with them and then hang them in the hall as the subject for lectures on the fate of the soul.)

As an inhabitant of modern culture, I don't want to interpret myth literally, but I also don't want to relegate it to the domain of 'mere mythology'. I'm sure that heaven and hell are more than 'mere' myth, although again, vague about the details (although also convinced enough to worry about them). But I also understand that rejection of such notions is one of the cardinal beliefs of secular culture, and so this forum is probably not the place to thrash it out. — Wayfarer

Thank god. My favorite living filosofer is back. Did you achieve your goal? 20,000 words was it? In that case, I can leave. If not....

Eternal Return. Absolutely!!!

Discovered by Kierkegaard, popularized by Nietzsche.

an above average number of deaths registered in the last official figures in the UK (50% above average) requires some kind of explanation — I like sushi

Only the British can make US bullshit smell like Rose's. :kiss:

The general population’s mistrust of scientists, and politician’s lack of scientific understanding, are the main factors. — I like sushi

Scientist are more full-of-shit than all the politicians and lawyers combined 8-fold. This pandemic has proven that medical science has no clue whatsoever. Otherwise, it would be written... and not a bunch of speculative hype, which you and I are currently guilty of. But I have a good time working out these ideas, and I appreciate you for assisting me in this quest. I hope it is reciprocal.

The Iraq War wasn’t anything to do with science on the scale the pandemic does. People just want to be told when, why and how and certainly don’t like the honest scientific opinion of ‘we can only give you rough estimates, so we err on the side of caution or millions could die’. — I like sushi

"so we err on the side of caution or millions could die"

That's exactly what they said about "weapons of mass destruction"...wmd's mf'er!!!...yellow cake from Nigeria MF'er!!! We all gonna die from the terrorists in the sky.

Baden-Hanover 2020

"All Day Mothafuckaz"

It never ceases to amaze me the lengths people will go to to maintain their chosen narrative. — Isaac

You must be easily amazed.

I should never have started trying to have a reasonable discussion again. — Isaac

That you attempted it amazes me, and I thank you for that.

Go back a few weeks and people in the US were saying ‘no problem here!’ Because once you’re infected you don’t drop dead on the spot. There is a substantial lag between infection and death in most cases - we’re talking in excess of a month in some cases. — I like sushi

And those deaths are very complicated. An overabundance of cases involve preexisting conditions that are exacerbated by covid infection. So, it becomes very difficult to separate the true covid fatalities from the compounded cases. At this point, from the vantage points of bystanders like you and I, until one of us is dead, it is all speculation. I'm unnaturally averse to hype, forgive me, I was heavily impacted by Bush and the Iraq War.

— Andrew M

I fully admit the graph doesn’t tell the story: it just shows that short-term Covid risks are numerically similar to annual risks (on average). So getting Covid might roughly double the risk of dying this year. That’s it.

Interesting. From the statistics I've seen, the global death totals as projected annually for this year do not mark an anomaly.

The brutal fact is: when it's your time to go, it's your time to get going.

You are not allowed to be happy at anytime, only miserable and worried. — Punshhh

:rofl: :groan:

I received this important email about the current pandemic...it drags on a bit too long in my opinion:

Here are the official Coronavirus guidelines:

1. Basically, you can't leave the house for any reason, but if you have to, then you can.

2. Masks are useless, but maybe you have to wear one, it can save you, it is useless, but maybe it is mandatory as well.

3. Stores are closed, except those that are open.

4. You should not go to hospitals unless you have to go there. Same applies to doctors, you should only go there in case of emergency, provided you are not too sick.

5. This virus is deadly but still not too scary, except that sometimes it actually leads to a global disaster.

6. Gloves won't help, but they can still help.

7. Everyone needs to stay HOME, but it's important to GO OUT.

8. There is no shortage of groceries in the supermarket, but there are many things missing when you go there in the evening, but not in the morning. Sometimes.

9. The virus has no affect on children except those it affects.

10. Animals are not affected, but there is still a cat that tested positive in Belgium in February when no one had been tested, plus a few tigers here and there…

11. You will have many symptoms when you are sick, but you can also get sick without symptoms, have symptoms without being sick, or be contagious without having symptoms. Oh, my..

12. In order not to get sick, you have to eat well and exercise, but eat whatever you have on hand and it's better not to go out, well, but no…

13. It's better to get some fresh air, but you get looked at very wrong when you get some fresh air, and most importantly, you don't go to parks or walk. But don’t sit down, except that you can do that now if you are old, but not for too long or if you are pregnant (but not too old).

14. You can't go to retirement homes, but you have to take care of the elderly and bring food and medication.

15. If you are sick, you can't go out, but you can go to the pharmacy.

16. You can get restaurant food delivered to the house, which may have been prepared by people who didn't wear masks or gloves. But you have to have your groceries decontaminated outside for 3 hours. Pizza too?

17. Every disturbing article or disturbing interview starts with " I don't want to trigger panic, but…"

18. You can't see your older mother or grandmother, but you can take a taxi and meet an older taxi driver.

19. You can walk around with a friend but not with your family if they don't live under the same roof.

20. You are safe if you maintain the appropriate social distance, but you can’t go out with friends or strangers at the safe social distance.

21. The virus remains active on different surfaces for two hours, no, four, no, six, no, we didn't say hours, maybe days? But it takes a damp environment. Oh no, not necessarily.

22. The virus stays in the air - well no, or yes, maybe, especially in a closed room, in one hour a sick person can infect ten, so if it falls, all our children were already infected at school before it was closed. But remember, if you stay at the recommended social distance, however in certain circumstances you should maintain a greater distance, which, studies show, the virus can travel further, maybe.

23. We count the number of deaths but we don't know how many people are infected as we have only tested so far those who were "almost dead" to find out if that's what they will die of…

24. We have no treatment, except that there may be one that apparently is not dangerous unless you take too much (which is the case with all medications).

25. We should stay locked up until the virus disappears, but it will only disappear if we achieve collective immunity, so when it circulates… but we must no longer be locked up for that? — Arnis Frost

Covid-19....what a concept!

Another brief report on the situation and struggles in India:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tpST8TNcAKI — I like sushi

Fuck yeah!!! Good for them. I hope social unrest sweeps the globe. I hope it sweeps the globe faster than the irrational panic over coronavirus.

It's the German name of Dr. Strangelove (from the movie). I also misspelled it, I think its supposed to be "Merkwuerdigichliebe".

When you go out for a run or fast-paced walk or whatever try to avoid being in the slipstream of other runners/walkers — Evil

I heard the same advice after 9-11

This whole "let's take advantage of every crisis in order to advance our political agenda" thing is what I'm objecting to. — Hanover

Let's also not forget that those using the crisis to further their own ends are more than likely to be the very same ones hyping it up and blowing it out of proportion...and they got all the suckers to take a bite. Unfortunately, this is not the first time.

Never have seen such ignorance and panic in all of my 39 years of being on this planet... — BeastdarityBarbarianProphet

Well, you're still relatively young, give it time.

:up:

No one...I think. Not even Jesus, since we're discussing Christianity.

John 16:33
"...In this world ye shall have tribulation..."

But that doesn't answer my question. In what way does "choosing faith" (assuming that's even possible) make life harder? You brought up the idea of easier vs. harder. Not me. — Aussie

Merely to live in the world, one will suffer tribulation, and tribulation means some form of hardship. Worldly tribulation does not cease once a person receives faith, it continues unabated. The only difference, is that the one who lives in faith will find peace amidst the tribulation, whereas the faithless will innanely search the world (the very source of tribulation) for a solution to their tribulations.

I suppose that depends on what you mean. If church is a building then no, Jesus didn't found any of those. If church is a group of individuals assembling together for a common purpose (doctrinal and vocational - which is truer to the word "church" - ekklesia: assembly or group of called out pepole), then the argument seems in favor of him having founded it. — Aussie

how does that remove Jesus from the equation? — Aussie

Good point. It doesn't.

Vocational - a person called to a vocation... I understand this as what is truly Christian, since Christianity is an existence communication (addressed to the individual existing subject, not the congregation), and to be a Christian is pure act. In this way, each Christian is a church in his own right.

Doctrinal, not so much, for Jesus did not appear in the world merely to add another doctrine to history (which people could debate with and subscribe to). I would associate Christian doctrine with the establishment church - qua Chistendom -, and not with Jesus or Christianity.

Of course he wasn't. Christian means a follower of Christ. He would have to be a follower of himself. How would that work? — Aussie

:lol:

It might make sense to you, but for that virus to spread through a nursing home and kill more than a third of the residents in just two weeks time, is quite incredible no matter how you choose to look at it. — Metaphysician Undercover

I agree. It is incredible. There is a lot of incredible fuckery going on in the world right now.

So 13 people have died out of 72 old folks in this one care home.
— unenlightened

26 out of 65 here: — Metaphysician Undercover

we know the overwhelming majority of COVID-19 deaths occur in patients that are already suffering from a number of other conditions. In Italy, for example, data shows 99 percent of COVID-19 deaths occurred in patients who had at least one other condition. More than 48 percent had three other conditions. Similar cases in the US are now likely to be routinely reported simply as COVID-19 cases.

https://mises.org/wire/march-us-deaths-covid-19-totaled-less-2-percent-all-deaths

Makes sense to me.

But in true American form, Americans really don't care what the world thinks about them. — Hanover

Very true...very.

if you can't prove the supernatural is real, why choose faith and make life harder on yourself.
— Gregory

In what way does it make life harder? — Aussie

Who says life is supposed to be easy?

I would first question the assumption that this notion of "going to church" is actually authorised and grounded in the Bible or in Jesus' teachings, the founder of Christianity! — Anonymous112

Jesus didn't advocate Christianity, nor was he a Christian. Jesus didn't found Christianty, his followers did. And their followers founded the church.

More or less the same advice today. Old news. Common sense. — jorndoe

Everything except mandated mask wearing. This generation is pitiful.

Cute :wink:
Have fun in your little corner. — Echarmion

social distancing, right? :lol:

Instead of updating your view based on the contrary evidence, you simply incorporate into your view. — Echarmion

How cute, you want me to think like your kind. I'm not flattered, and no thanks.

big dumb conspiracy theory. — Echarmion

It is no conspiracy that the idiotic public has gone mad over a load of inconclusive and suspect information backed independently by sovereign states across the globe. And it's no conspiracy that the idiotic public is willing to invent any reason in order to justify its mass stupidity...
although I admit, it's much too easy to follow the crowd, especially when one is cowardly.

Then I say "what about all the other countries?". This is evidence that contradicts your initial claim. — Echarmion

Evidence? Evidence of what? Obviously evidence that you don't understand what constitutes evidence.

Oh, of course, it's just absurd to think other states than the US would deceive and disinform its public. Yes, it's absolutely impossible.
— Merkwurdichliebe

Ah yes, the classic "they're all in on it" argument. Turning contrary evidence into supporting evidence with just one small leap of irrationality. — Echarmion

What are you blabbering about? Who's all in on it?
Are you referring to the moronic rabble gobbling up the hype? They are definitely "all in on it".

It's weird how often people forget that the world is larger than the US, and the CDC can therefore not fabricate numbers across the globe. — Echarmion

Oh, of course, it's just absurd to think other states than the US would deceive and disinform its public. Yes, it's absolutely impossible.

deadly repercussions — StreetlightX

The bodies — StreetlightX

Seriously?!?!?
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:lol:

But that's just what they want! They're a step ahead of you! — Andrew M

That was meant to be mockingly ironic, given the ridiculous degree of panic that is currently consuming the globe. And the state is a step ahead of everyone, otherwise it couldn't get away with running shit like it does.

The CDC is fabricating statistics to inflate the Covid-19 death toll. It's official, the state is deceiving the public to fuel the hysteria. It's a definite conspiracy...now is the time to begin panicking.

Us deaths from covid-19 totaled less than 2 percent of all deaths in March.

https://mises.org/wire/march-us-deaths-covid-19-totaled-less-2-percent-all-deaths

the CDC is instructing medical staff to report deaths as COVID-19 deaths even when no test has confirmed the presence of the disease. In a Q and A on death certificates published by the CDCon March 24, the agency advises:

"COVID-19 should be reported on the death certificate for all decedents where the disease caused or is assumed to have caused or contributed to death. Certifiers should include as much detail as possible based on their knowledge of the case, medical records, laboratory testing, etc. If the decedent had other chronic conditions such as COPD or asthma that may have also contributed, these conditions can be reported in Part II. [emphasis in original.]"

This is extremely likely to inflate the number of deaths attributed to COVID-19 while pulling down deaths attributed to other influenza-like illnesses and to deaths caused by pneumonia with unspecified origins.  This is especially problematic since we know the overwhelming majority of COVID-19 deaths occur in patients that are already suffering from a number of other conditions. In Italy, for example, data shows 99 percent of COVID-19 deaths occurred in patients who had at least one other condition. More than 48 percent had three other conditions. Similar cases in the US are now likely to be routinely reported simply as COVID-19 cases.

White House COVID-19 task for member Dr. Deborah Birx has confirmed it is now standard practice to count all death of persons "with" COVID-19 as deaths caused by COVID-19. 

We have a much wider milieu now in which our awareness/understanding of reality can unfold. — Pantagruel

Very true

Consciousness is unfolding at an unprecedented rated. — Pantagruel

And yet people are stupider than ever. Go figure.

Maybe we can understand objects because we are so far above them? — Gregory

Objective knowledge amounts to no more than an approximation of the truth since it is always partially created and partially learned. For every object that is known, the human understanding interposes a veil or lense over existence, so that no matter how infinitismal, there remains a human component contaminating all understanding. I might venture to say that in learning (learning as used in the present sense), one is in a direct relation to the object, whereas in creating (creating as used in the present sense) one stands apart from the object, an indirect relation, and may put oneself above it as it were.