I love your constitution — Nosferatu

We generally have a decent constitution in the states, but too many of us are lactose intolerant.

Excuse me? — Nosferatu

Its internet slang that the kids use to mean goodnight, no disrespect meant

Don't underestimate Radder. He has his very own take on reality. Even wrote a book about it. It couldn't prevent his public demise though. — Nosferatu

Give me a link to Radder and I will check it out. I am only joking about the anthrax. I wasn't being disrespectful about any personal issues.

nini

lol. Of course it is. You cannot trust European investgators, they're all on the take, and they're always a'peein. Sorry bad joke

His mortal trip... — Nosferatu

But not his final trip

I heard about those students. Authorities found them dead with egg on their face, little did they know it was anthrax laced cocaina.

But continue gaslighting if you'd like. — Xtrix

Accussations from the one who has been trolling and gaslighting for pages. Resorting to ad hominem, typical of the defeated sophist

I delivered it... — Nosferatu

I hope you used email. Its easier to trace, and you'll more than likely get credit where credit is due

if he contacts me, i will be the happiest lil fella on the globe

It's prominent on my disordered shell. I used the book for my scription: "forms of realism". I was surprised to find it on the table at the professor's (Radder) office. — Nosferatu

Yes, professor Radder. Genius man, gentle soul, loving husband. Too bad what happened, you heard he was poisoned by anthrax in his cocaine, right?

So now you're saying that accusing me of being "partisan" was pertaining to the FACT that these rates are occurring "mostly in states run by Republicans"? — Xtrix

Sorry, I was being facetious. I don't give two shits about political parties. They are the lamest parties ever thrown, and I say fuck off to bothofem. But you started it.

So here we have two sets of facts: (1) vaccination, hospitalization, and death statistics per state and (2) the political affiliation of those states governments. — Xtrix

Again, you are drawing correlations. Prove the causation and you will have ground to stand on. I respect ground standing more the wind walking.

I suppose it's "partisan minded" to link these two sets of facts? An odd thing to say, considering it's very well documented that conservatives are far more likely to refuse the vaccines than other demographics. — Xtrix

There you go again, talking parties. I wish I could take you to one of my parties, you would never be the same again.

One GOD is all that's left. Luckily there are some Aboriginals left. They know. — Nosferatu

That one GOD should create a pantheon and a bunch of imbiciles to believe in it, that way SHE wont get blamed for all the bullshit

This reminds me of Pickering: "Constructing Quarks". — Nosferatu

Thanks :blush: ill take that as a compliment

Not for me. My gods reside outside the universe. Maybe they can interact with us by means of hidden variables (a fact!), but I would be very disappointed if they did! — Nosferatu

So then, do you consider facts, rather, is your critetion of strict fact that it be verifiable in the known universe, preferably via empirical means?

But then fact fights back by declaring all frames to be facts in themselves, and now we are discovering frames as facts. I think Nietzsche called this perspectivism...the M fer

So... A fact is only true when embedded in a frame. Gods frames are absent now. Xenophanes assured that. The MFer... — Nosferatu

Ok, you said it better

Of course not. The Greek gods were once a fact. Not anymore!

Shitty shitty BANG BANG! — Nosferatu

Of course Shitty shitty BANG BANG! Is that not the overarching ethos of the philosophy forum dot com?

But the Greek gods are in fact, still a fact. It is just that we know much less about them today. All knowledge about them, not belief but knowledge, which includes the negative into which us moderns categorize the Greek gods, is fact. We must have a criterion for knowledge, and criterion is what separates knowledge from belief and gives us fact.

For example Zeus is real to me, not as a bearded dude on the throne of mount Olympus, but as a really cool character in the Greek pantheon, and isva metaphor for many things in real life. But fuck metaphors ya know.

It gets tricky because criterion then becomes subject to belief. So it is very easy to dismiss certain categories of fact because we can always relegate a category of fact to a belief by referring to belief in its criterion.

perhaps you are asking when a statement ought be believed. There is no general answer to that question. — Banno

I think being under the threat of great violence is the best time to believe something

Fuck off, sockpuppet — Banno

I love fucking off my sock puppets

Facts are always true. — Banno

This is a fact

I'm realizing that right now. — Xtrix

Which are you, right or left?

So you're suggesting, without evidence, that vaccination rate numbers are wrong -- or that hospitalization rates/death rates are wrong, or both. — Xtrix

Am I suggesting that? By no means am I or would I. I have no issue with any statistics you provide concerning vaccination rate numbers, or hospitalization rates/death rates. Very strange mind you have, in which post of mine did you transmute that I was speaking about vaccination rate numbers, or hospitalization rates/death rates?

If I am suggesting anything, it is that the current vax program, as it stands in the here and now, is impotent and incapable of eradicating covid as a public health concern. And, if I understand correctly, that the goal is to achieve herd immunity, immunity being the operative word..."IMMUNITY"... then we need to vaccinate a suffient percentage of the global population with permanent immunity in order to achieve IT.

It doesn't even have to be permanent, just a long enough duration that it cannot become pandemic.

The issue are anti-vaxxers, ignorance, and misinformation — Xtrix

The issue is, the world is full of morons, both left and right

Maps and statistics aren’t partisan. But interesting that you’d take it personally. Pretty revealing. — Xtrix

Really, they aren't? I guess those with fanatical dispositions , political biases or agendas never manufacture statistics and maps. We are all safe to believe all statistics and maps without nonpartisan scrutiny. Very convincing.

Looking closer into the map, the cases spiking right now are among the states with high rates of unvaccinated people— mostly states run by Republicans. — Xtrix

Sounds like you are partisan minded. Just a cop out

Is this a joke? — Xtrix

That's exactly what I'm asking

It’s worked elsewhere, — Xtrix

Where exactly has it worked?

If you have an auto-immune disorder you can go ahead and get your third shot. Otherwise you'll have to wait your turn. — frank

3 shots already and the vax hasn't even reached its first birthday. Jesus Satan Mohamed!!!! One shot is surely reasonble. Two shots is awfully inefficient but tolerable. But requiring three shots is pushing it a little too to far. We already have two failed shots, how about they make it work right third time. How many shots is it gonna take, 20 billion?. . .40 gazzilion?

What’s been studied so far suggests less effectiveness after 6-8 months — Xtrix

If the goal is herd immunity, the only thing that matter is how long individual immunity can be achieved through vaccination. Simply using the vax to reduce severity of infection does not bring us closer to herd immunity. It is common knowledge that vaccine breakthrough infections occur rather frequently with covid, making such a vector far more hazardous than an unvaccinated one.

What is needed is a 99% effective vaccine that immunizes permanently. Until then, it's just thumbs up assholes.

It's true here. I'm in a study now. I was vaccinated in December and my antibodies were gone in August. — frank

Interesting

And the other 35% are vaccinated. The vaccine wears off after a few months. — frank

Then it is probable that amongst that 65% of unvaccinated, a substantial number includes those whose vaccine immunity has expired. Seems hard to keep track of these percentages when a vaccinated person can lose immunity over time and become a vector

I don't think we'll ever have herd immunity for it the way we do with measles. — frank

That's my thought. I'm still trying to find the current level of herd immunity the experts say we're at globally, but no luck yet.

Anybody know?

In the past, pandemic class diseases have been eradicated/defeated with vaccinations that provided permanent immunity to individuals and ultimately prevented transmission and infection. But with Covid, experts are unclear as to the duration of immunity, whether from natural infection or vaccination. They have only determined that immunization, whether natural or synthetic, does not provide permanent immunity to individuals. They also lack sufficient data on how much the vaccine reduces the transmission of covid. This means that even if 70% global vaccination is acheived, future transmission and infection always remain possible. With this in mind, in what way does the current mass vaccination programming make herd immunity a viable reality?

In all, whilst I think vaccination has a few merits as a choice of preventative measure to bolster a flagging health system, it's knocked out of the water by a half dozen other far more suitable candidates, all of which are being ignored solely for ideological reasons — Isaac

For us laymen, could you provide an example of some of those alternative measures?

I guess traffic lights & child-proof caps on medicine bottles make you "ewwww :vomit:" too. — 180 Proof

It depends. Are you specifically referring to traffic light mandates or child-proof cap passports?

Whatever the case, the exclamation:

Bring on the passports & mandates! — 180 Proof

it sounds very soviet, and that is a disgusting idea for me.

Bring on the passports & mandates! :mask: — 180 Proof

Ewwww :vomit:

At older age some are ready to die. They have seen their friends or their loved ones died and have not much to do, especially if they are sick. For many people it's actually a relief. — ssu

Death is preferable to many living conditions, without a doubt. Sickness especially, I once had such painful larengitis that I constantly thought about how death would be a relief. In fact, I will go so far as to say: suicide is absolutely unjustifiable, but I imagine that the best excuse for it would be physical pain.

To digress, I find the contrast between modern euthanasia and ancient/classic euthanasia to be interesting. Modern euthanasia is concerned with averting pain and discomfort, eg. being put to sleep while suffering from terminal cancer. In contrast, the traditional form is concerned with dying in an honorable way, eg. falling in battle for the flag.

In the Phaedo, Socrates says:

the one aim of those who practice philosophy in the proper manner is to practice for dying and death

The difference here is that I acknowledge the experts around me and refer to them to conclude what they are actually knowledgeable about. If I make arguments that refer to source material that they produced, then I'm taking the epistemically responsible path of arguing logic out of that knowledge. The difference between me and you is that you just have opinions, you think you know best, but have little to no foundation for that logic. The same goes for every other person who does the same. Armchair experts are called that based on them thinking they know best. The reasonable thinker, however, never position themselves to know past their own knowledge and instead include the consensus of experts into the arguments. So you are comparing apples to oranges while you don't understand the difference. — Christoffer

Is that what the reasonable thinker does? I am no expert in anything but from what I've seen, its the brainless thinkers that tend to buy into experts' so called expertise. I have also seen many examples of experts getting it wrong and leading the brainless followers into shitty situations, which should make anyone with two shits for brains skeptical about anything any expert might claim. Of course, I didn't get my opinion from an expert, so you will probably reject what I'm saying here.