Paramount requirement: stop making wars, preparing for wars, cleaning up after wars. Firstly, they keep disuniting both peoples and purpose and secondly, they're monstrously costly. If I were running a world government, that would be my first order of business: put every country on Earth out of the business war. — Vera Mont

Definitely! The business of death taints and poisons everything it touches with its bloody skeleton fingers. Even during ‘peace time’ it hovers over us darkly. I use the term ‘business of death’ too.
Because Death is in business, and business is good. No one ever went broke dealing weapons.

But how to put War out of business? What is the thinking and belief system that fosters warfare?
One answer might be that we live in a culture where warfare is inevitable. That we live in a dominator culture, a culture of oppression at every level.

To which the spokesmen for the status quo would plead that “the law of life is ‘survival of the fittest’, and we modern people follow that perfectly!”

To which I’d say “raspberries!” :razz:

You don't see a logistical problem? https://qz.com/how-much-does-it-cost-to-visit-the-international-space-1850461158 That's just getting one person into orbit, not across the galaxy or over to Andromeda, and does not even include the initial cost of constructing suitable containers. Where is all that metal and fuel supposed to come from?
I begin to suspect that your expectations of the future are less than realistic — Vera Mont

:up: Yes, well put. Many writers have compared our high-tech yet unstable culture with adolescence. Strong and bright but reckless and headstrong. And certain that their elders (indigenous cultures) have absolutely nothing important or helpful to offer.

Even with a stable civilization behind it, space travel requires an enormous amount of everything, as you suggest.

The greatest of all, and the the most damaging of all, is the idea that metaphysical problems are formal dilemmas. — FrancisRay

Interesting! Could you expand on that a little? :smile:

I don’t think it’s a fallacy, but the biggest logical disconnect in politics is when millionaire candidates ask their poor followers for money.

Lewis Carroll would have trouble writing a satire of our times.
Truth became stranger than fiction a long time ago…

common fallacy which occurs too often in Wikipedia and other forums: namely, the assertion that Euclid's Postulate 5 and the parallel postulate are logically synonymous. — alan1000

I hate when people do that! :nerd: (or at least I would if I knew what it meant. Will look it up).
Thanks for your reply! :up:

What do you guys think of the Mexican aliens? — flannel jesus

If the USA wants to keep out absolutely all aliens, a much taller wall is going to be needed. Maybe a dome too. :sparkle:

Warning: if paintings of dogs playing poker disturb you, then this video might give you an anxiety attack lol.

And who are these “right people”? Any examples? Are they ‘true patriots’?
Are you referring to the USA and its upcoming elections, or any country?
Some further description might help.
— 0 thru 9

I think that if you are asking those questions you already have some ideas of your own. I'm not going to name anyone, but yes, I would like a genuine patriot to be in office - even if they have some less than excellent ideas. — ToothyMaw

Thanks for your reply.

I probably have a different sort of ‘patriot’ in mind: Bernie Sanders lol.
Yeah, he lost, he’s too old, he’s not a reeeeal genuwine patriot, etc. (Some may say).

It’s probably just a fantasy, but I enjoy picturing a world where social conditions are not twisted to the extreme like taffy, and citizens are not stuck like flies in the sticky morass.

In that kind of world, I imagine many would do their duties freely and happily from the sheer joy of it.
(Not that he or anyone else could make that happen. Except Jesus on a motorcycle :halo: )

I voted to go on strike.

Now where’s my union strike check? :wink:

But I understand the position and choice of those who cross the picket line.

I will define duty as: a feeling of obligation brought about by expectation that is irreducible; it exists only as a meta-construction - as recursive and a sum of its parts - and yet it is a very basic concept understood by pretty much everybody. What the obligation is, how intense the feelings are, and what expectations give rise to those feelings is variable, but there is what I see as a common thread: proximity to worthy causes and charismatic leaders. — ToothyMaw

I say that the right people in the right positions to lead need to stand up and allow us some redemption. — ToothyMaw

Interesting, but I don’t see why a person’s sense of duty needs to be controlled, redeemed, or influenced by some kind of ideal leader. “the right people in the right position to lead”, as you write.

And who are these “right people”? Any examples? Are they ‘true patriots’?
Are you referring to the USA and its upcoming elections, or any country?
Some further description might help.

Are there some people out there somewhere beyond the grasp of greed?
The whole system seems to be built on greed, as far as one can tell.

Are the corporations going to work with this leader?
Is he a total revolutionary or will he make minor adjustments to the current system?
And are they willing to serve the greater good? (whatever that is).

Or they just another politician?

Why do I hear marching music in my head when I read this? — Joshs

Yes, it reads quite macho. You can smell the sigma male aftershave. :cool:

Which is fine when counterbalanced by an example of a mother walking through a store trying to shop with one baby in her arms, and two other children causing various levels of mayhem. This after they have fed from her breasts, and squeezed through a painfully small opening in her body, and demand constant attention. She falls asleep worrying about their future.

That’s above and beyond the call of duty, imho. :heart:

I’ve long thought that firing people (or not hiring them at all) for cannabis use is stupid and unfair.
As long as the person shows up for work ready and sober, what’s the problem?
People have been going to work Monday after getting tipsy or drunk on the weekends for over 3,000 years. :lol:

Here’s an article that suggests some overdue changes are beginning to happen.

Thanks! That’s good to hear how well it is working for you. That helps me know I’m not imagining the positive effects because of some pipe dream lol.

I have found the same conclusion that fats really make cannabis absorb better in the body.
I wonder if some CBD gets stored in the fat cells to be used later when needed most?
Like a secret stash. :snicker:

Here’s a YouTube channel with a fusion of indigenous and electronic music.

Some real surprising combinations of sounds. I like. :smile:

:grin: Awesome!
A warning though: listening to Entheogenic (especially with YT video slowed down) while taking entheogens can make one travel to another world… and not want to return to this one lol.

:sparkle: Yes, I’d imagine that is the case.
Luckily however, one spark can cause a large fire :fire: (this time a fire of wisdom, love, and freedom).
And always our inner guru, our own secret shaman is inside our minds advising us.
We can hear the drum he plays when we are quiet.
Ba-bump, ba-bump…
When I’m smart, I listen.

Someone on YouTube combined this song with an unrelated short animated film. It goes together well. :starstruck:

I think the best example of shamanistic behaviors and people in today's world, is the global "techno rave scene", that originally came out of London in the early 90's. These folks gather(ed) specifically for entering states of group trance, sometimes called "oneness". With the DJ acting as a sort of shaman, for the night. — Bret Bernhoft

I certainly hope the spirit of the shaman is strong somewhere in the world. It is a tree and forest that has been cut down. But the roots are deep and alive, and will one day soon be apparent for all to see.

I like psybient music like Shpongle and Entheogenic.

To connect to other lifeforms on Earth than just humans. To share that bond of love with others. To show that we don't have to be afraid of life. — Kevin Tan

:smile: :up: Yes, that would be wonderful. It think the results would blow our minds. Treating the world and its creatures as ‘things’ and ‘its’ instead of ‘you’ is the toxin we swallow everyday.
Thinking itself is the beginning and the destination of technology.

This YouTube channel consistently surprises me with how animals can get along with other animals including humans, when put in the right situation.
Who wouldn’t want to be like Francis of Assisi and have wild birds fly to you, perch on your finger, and sing a song?
https://m.youtube.com/@TheDodo

Thanks for your reply! And for exploring the subject of cannabis from many angles. :smile:

For mental relaxation and health, cannabis seems to help me in several ways.
First is that instant reduction of anxiety, which is amazing.
It takes those thoughts running around my head like chickens, and turns them into mellow doves.

Then the focused feeling that arrives is amazing.
Maybe that is just the brain working without the buzzing of random thoughts?
Or a superpower of pot?
In any case, it’s most helpful psychologically to deal with whatever feelings come up, and process them in a calm positive way.

Meditation is very therapeutic, and the right amount of pot can facilitate that, helping to do it longer and deeper.
The physical pain relief encourages meditation so one can focus on thoughts, rather than aches.
And playing music with singing and instruments can be magical when everything lines up.
The right amount for me is a balance of mostly CBD, with a little THC.
I seem to get too edgy or sedated with too much THC, but everyone is different.

I’ve been adding hemp-infused oil to a candle in order to benefit from the fact that heat activates both CBD and THC.
(But there are benefits from the unheated forms of CBDA and THCA).
I grind the hemp flowers into powder and douse that in grapeseed or coconut oil.
Shake it, let it sit, then put some of the green oil in a candle, with some delta-8 THC oil.
Not very smelly like a joint lol, don’t like that heavy smell, and don’t want to inhale lots of smoke.
This seems like a good compromise, in addition to eating a spoonful of the powder and oil.

Thanks for your reply! :smile:

So many of us are trying to find some mental and emotional stability… maybe after years of feeling bipolar, anxious, depressed, and on and on…

As another tangential but important and interrelated issue… sugar / carb addiction.
This is so pervasive in our culture… that strangely it’s almost invisible.
Kids love sugar, and many of them can burn most of the carbs off by activity and by growing taller.

But even this has its limits, as evidenced by surging child diabetes cases.
Anyone who has experienced insulin instability, and the effects on the mind and emotions knows how devastating it is.
Its ups and downs are the beginning of bipolar disorder.

For example… start with a relatively happy and healthy child of ten years or so.
Add some emotional stress like parents divorce or bad grades.
Add high glycemic foods meant to soothe the pain.
Substitute a healthy diet with one loaded with sugar and white flour.
This causes blood sugar bipolar effects and vitamin deficiencies (which effect the brain as well as the body).
Try to go on a ‘low-fat diet’ because ‘fat is bad’ and must be the culprit.
This starves the brain of needed fats (which also stabilize insulin levels) and shifts the diet even more to the sugar and carb roller coaster.

Repeat over and over.

Add in the hormones that show up in puberty, which are almost like drugs in themselves given their powerful effects.
And on top of that, the inevitable rapid weight gain will only worsen the feelings of isolation.
Social media will tend to both magnify and distort these feelings like a stack of Marshall amplifiers in an echo chamber.
By age 16, this young adult has a great likelihood to feel unstable and act very erratically.

Maybe, if they are lucky they can repress all the stress, and achieve a delicate balance.
Maybe they seek psychological help; maybe it is forced on them because of an ‘incident’.
Here comes the drugs.
(Psychological help at one time meant counseling, therapy, etc. Now it equals many powerful psychiatric and often experimental medications).

It all starts so slowly, and gathers speed until the person is a walking car crash.
Everyone feels trapped by the situation: the child, their family, anyone close to them.

Meanwhile, corporations grow fat on the profits of misery with little backlash or protest.
It goes on and on…

:grin: Wow, that’s good to hear! Glad you are feeling good and using CBD happily.
That’s encouraging!

I feel for those people locked into medications, especially psychiatric meds.
Some of those meds (as I understand) make drastic changes in the brain, and must be either taken permanently or tapered off extremely slowly.

For examples of someone trying to unsuccessfully ‘escape medication addiction’, I wonder if public violent meltdowns (and shootings) qualify? (Tangential but important question).

I can’t think of any ‘herbal’ remedies that have this immense drawback.
I wonder if ‘stronger and quicker’ is always better. (Our culture = Bigger! Better! New! More! )
(Probably not… but there’s a buttload of money to be made, and millions of depressed people…
sad to say).

Just wanted to emphasize the possible effects of CBD on medications that have a grapefruit/citrus interaction warning:

Types of medications that commonly have a grapefruit warning
antibiotics and antimicrobials
anticancer medications
antihistamines
antiepileptic drugs (AEDs)
blood pressure medications
blood thinners
cholesterol medications
corticosteroids
erectile disfunction medications
GI medications, such as to treat GERD or nausea
heart rhythm medications
immunosuppressants
mood medications, such as to treat anxiety, depression, or mood disorders
pain medications
prostate medications

From this article. Could possibly effect other medications.

I (not a doctor) personally think cannabis is (or can be) a wonder drug and miracle medication.
Much research and experimenting needed. I volunteer to be a Guinea pig lol.
But of course caution is needed, as in the rest of life. :smile: :flower:

Open question to anyone:

What would the aim/goal of the shamanistic behavior/person be today in the present moment?
(Either one top goal, or many goals. Either specific or general).

:up: Thanks for an interesting thread.
I think humanity as a whole has achieved many wondrous things.
But have we forgotten how to be a creature, a mammal, a living being amongst other different but living beings?
Not completely forgotten, but almost completely gone out of our mind.
Zombies walk the Earth, and they are us.

The Australian Aborigines called the ancient times ‘dreamtime’.
They recreate the distant past and make it come alive in ceremonies.
Speaking of technology, the didgeridoo amazes me.
They originally were made from a fallen branch hollowed out by termites, as I understand.
What would be trash for us was turned into an instrument that sounds like singing thunder or the Earth breathing or something.

I think the word ‘dreamtime’ can give us a clue, if we are open to it.
In our dream imagery, everything can be alive and deeply conscious.
Trees talk to us, the lamp runs across the room screaming, long-deceased people entertain us over coffee and danish.

Somehow, we’ve fractured the wholeness of our minds.
The deeper realms of our souls have broken away and dropped deep under water.
The unconscious mind is locked away in a dark cavern, and when it stirs like an underwater volcano, we clamp down on it so we can just get through the day.

We repeat this over and over, until one day too tired of fighting and denying the deep dark roots of our very being, we look at our forgotten soul in amazement.

To me, transrationalism is sophisticated, educated irrationalism. I mean that in a value-neutral way. Nietzsche's Christ takes 'the inner' to be first. I think we find some of Nietzsche's own 'mysticism' in that description: his sense of being behind words. Or 'under logic.' Schopenhauer celebrates the expressions on characters as present by certain painters. This mute expression also hints at a 'gnosis' that is nonconceptual. I'm strongly incline to interpret all of this in terms of Feeling. In completely nonspooky terms we can say that, obviously, the world is not only given conceptually but sensually and feelingly. Value is largely in the feeling 'dimension' or 'channel' or 'aspect' of this reality --- which makes it no less real. — plaque flag

:up: Yes. Well put.
We as philosophy students rightfully disdain fallacies and faulty logic. They can be actually dangerous in certain circumstances. (Those in the USA get buried with fallacious reasoning every presidential election).

But as you imply, much of life’s experience would be diminished if everything ‘outside of logic and reason’ were ignored or devalued.

Interesting OP, thanks. :up:
A topic that seems on the edge of the fringe of the outlands (so to speak).
But one that has some references (if not possible clues and answers) to some vital questions at the beating heart of philosophical inquiry.
Questions like the nature of being (and the real vs the unreal), knowing / skepticism (gnosis vs agnosis), naturalism / supernaturalism (including that bane of philosophy: religion (lol).

The concept of the ‘transrational’ makes one wonder (according to the etymology of transrational) what actually is beyond the rational?
Which begs the question of what is exactly rational? (Rational defined as ‘based on reason or logic’).
Or more controversially, is there a line dividing rational and irrational?
And where exactly or approximately is it?
Are emotional or instinctive behaviors included or excluded?
(And many such other juicy questions!)

And all this before even attempting to deal with the OP question of whether that which is beyond rational is also beyond proof, and possibly beyond words and description.

(As a welcome escape from this seeming impasse, the Zen master offers meditation. The cosmonaut offers psychedelics and deep music of your choice. The Epicurean offers chocolate cheesecake).

To me, this is somehow related to the transpersonal (as a whole including psychology, studies, and practices). I’ve been chewing on that general topic for awhile. Here’s an essay on the critiques of the movement (if it indeed is still even moving lol).

Ah… it seems like more questions than answers are found in heading in this heady but hazy direction.
(Times of doubt and exhaustion from the Apollonian-Dionysian dual may be soothed by the jovial and husky voice and insights of Joseph Campbell, along with some fine brandy).

Does the discovery of many questions mean one is at least heading in an interesting philosophical direction? :zip:

Thanks again! :smile:

haha! We’ll all shed our bodies one day and be free, but who’s in a hurry?

As the saying goes… everyone wants to go to heaven, but no one wants to die. :snicker:

:grin: Ok thanks for the reply! Glad CBD is not keeping you awake at night.

But maybe as you say the dizziness might be an interaction with another medication possibly…

Why is the body so complicated lol. Jerry Seinfeld said if our car needed as much maintenance as our body, we’d get rid of it because of the hassle! :lol:

Here’s an article about how CBD might affect metabolism of medications.

Don’t know if that might be a factor in your situation?

:smile: Hiya! Thanks for the message. Can’t afford an actual summer vacation, so i just fantasize lol.

You’re right… insomnia isn’t a usual CBD side effect. It’s possible for a particular individual I’d assume. It might be activating something in your brain that then causes wakefulness maybe?

But like you said, it could be the heat or something else. Do you still take melatonin?

Hope you get some good sleep! :yawn:

Yes. Analog vs digital collection and processing of information becomes interesting in this respect. Analog collection of information captures an actual "imprint" of the real world. In which sense, there may actually be information captured which is unexpected or unknown. Neural networks are able to exploit such "hidden" information and extrapolate hidden connections. In fact, that is more or less exactly how they work. By contrast, digitization only encodes what it is specifically designed to encode. — Pantagruel

:up: Thanks for your reply. I take it that ‘analog = intuition’ and ‘digital = analytical’?

Yes, it was the "or..." part that always bothered me. Intuition, or whatever you call it, is not something occult or supernatural. — T Clark

:up: Thanks. The “or” isn’t necessarily woo-woo voodoo, but I see your point. The term ‘ESP’ is so loaded with negative connotations that it’s only used now as derogatory. Which is like closing the case before it’s even been examined at all. Kind of like…

Field theory might be relevant here somehow. We are influenced by the waves all around us (water, sound, electromagnetic… )
— 0 thru 9

I don't think there's any need to postulate processes other than mental ones, e.g. the Force or fields, in order to understand intuition. — T Clark

…kind of like you may have done inadvertently here lol.

Seriously though, for us here we could probably skip some ‘tangential’ subjects such as this without any problems.

But if I were a scientist, I most definitely would not! (Especially if I had a big load of grant money.)

There’s the theory of the Noosphere, which is at the very least thought-provoking.

Ponder once more this diagram of electromagnetic spectrum. Information is passed via several frequencies mechanically. I’m not aware of any proof that the human mind / body can ‘pick up’ any info at these frequencies. But I definitely wouldn’t close the book on the entire matter. :nerd:

I would think that there have been ‘schools of thought’ as long as there existed human thought.
Some simple, some complex. Some popular, some obscure. Some that have endured, some not.
And some that died out, and for reasons unknown have returned to become undead zombie ideas… like the flat earth theory lol.

It. conveys a difference between having well trained intuitions and not having well trained intuitions although it frames it in magical terms of using the force. — wonderer1

Yes. One could take the difficult step of recognizing that there just might possibly but not necessarily be more than meets the eye (sensory data) and the intellect (‘splaining all that data).
For those adventurous souls, the question becomes how to enhance this possible source of ‘info’.

It comes down to the individual. Whether they stop at data from the 5 senses alone, or are curious to look for more / other sources.

Our senses take in a huge spectrum of information all the time. We only successfully process a small portion of that spectrum. Increasing our knowledge is one way to increase the portion of the spectrum we process. — Pantagruel

:up:
Yes, we’re only conscious of a tiny bit of each moment’s ‘total data input’ collected by our being.
And of that fraction, an even smaller fraction is able to be rationally thought, named, explained, etc.

And of that immense amount we are able to ‘collect’, there must be more that is somehow beyond us. Stuff that perhaps animals can detect, or highly sensitive equipment.
(Or better yet… alien cats with high tech tools lol).

Field theory might be relevant here somehow. We are influenced by the waves all around us (water, sound, electromagnetic… )

We humans are like ice skaters flitting over a semi-frozen ocean that is endlessly deep…
… in terms of awareness, one could imagine.

This is more mythic than scientific lol. But what about this scene with Luke and Obi-Wan?
Luck? Chance? Unconscious? Animal instinct? Energy? Intuition? Or… ? :sparkle:

One perhaps envies a child growing up today because of the sheer power and ever-growing number of ‘tools’ for information, communication, expression, experience, creation, learning, etc.
In a nutshell, all the abilities the average smartphone gives one.

What is less likely to be envied is the extreme pressure they must feel, as soon as they become aware of the basics of the situation.
Pressure to be noticed, to be liked, to perform, to achieve, to stand out, to make money (despite still being a child), to gain a following, and so on and on…
Not just compared to the rest of their friends and classmates as has been happening for millennia (and not without its own problems), but compared to the whole freaking world.

Pondering this might raise a headache, along with many questions, including this one:

Question: are there human entities (persons, groups, corporations) that are intentionally trying to make humanity more afraid, more powerless, more unhealthy, and more isolated? In a word, more unhappy?

If so, then who, how, and why?

If not, then are these entities doing so unintentionally or accidentally or because ‘the market’ is forcing them to?

Or… ?

Two things which (I think) are closely related and intertwined with the OP:

1. The body as an object.
It’s fairly well-established that human babies first see their body parts as things that are ‘part of the environment’, so to speak. The realization that the chubby hands and feet are somehow connected to them and controllable takes time.

So perhaps at least the body is viewed from the beginning by the person ‘as an object’, and somewhat remains at least partially an object, in addition to being part of a subject called ‘me’.

2. We are thinking of self as subject, object, both, or some other category (though I’m not sure what that’d be called). Identity is a concept integral with the self viewed from any perspective, I would think.

How does the identity / identities that arise, come and go relate to subjective self and objective self?

This example is not a riddle. (or is it? :chin:)

Kundalini is a prototypical / archetypal spectrum.





(mentioned in another post in relation to awareness and the nondual.)

We would be remiss in a discussion of self and consciousness not to consider the ‘idea(s)’ of
pure consciousness (Shiva / Sakshi).
In many significant ways, we are still trying even today to understand the depths of the knowledge of the mind present in India’s traditions.
(Maybe someone or many people out there understand these theories, but it isn’t me lol.)
Pure awareness is also known as the witness.

(from the Wikipedia link above):

In Hindu philosophy, Sakshi (Sanskrit: साक्षी), also Sākṣī, "witness," refers to the 'pure awareness' that witnesses the world but does not get affected or involved.

Sakshi is beyond time, space and the triad of experiencer, experiencing and experienced; sakshi witnesses all thoughts, words and deeds without interfering with them or being affected by them.

Sakshi or Shiva, along with Shakti (will/energy/motion), represents the Brahman, the totality itself in its most fundamental state, the concept of all mighty, revealed in ancient philosophical texts of Hinduism.


The Sakshi (pure awareness) forms a dynamic dualism (ala Yin and Yang) with Shakti (energy).
Shakti ideas are expressed in kundalini yoga.
This is ‘outside’ in the Cosmos, and within us as energy and consciousness.

Are light, awareness, and energy actually the same ‘thing’, just at different levels?

What if ‘Self as subject’ and ‘Self as object’ were already merged into one with awareness / the Witness?

What if our ‘own awareness’ was somehow not separated from ‘the entire sum of awareness’ everywhere?

What implications would this have?

The search goes on, in science and in meditative thought.