Do you "agree" with the music I posted? William Orbit is a dude, but I'm getting tired (once again) of these "agree" posts. And I'm not even joking; it truly is a pet peeve. Perhaps I'm just a cranky old man, even though I'm not old. I'm a man of words as well as music, so I guess I would appreciate a more in depth discussion than just whether or not I "agree" with...what?

You for some reason reminded me of this underrated and very unknown English composer of the time:

Nice pick on the Gnossiennes. More romantic and less modern in a weird way, in comparison to the more popular Gymnopedies, which I love as well. Both equally great to my ear.

So soul-crushingly destructive and weepingly gorgeous at the same time:

And an 80's pop band that gets a bad rap as well:

Songwriters often write words that scratch an unconscious itch, but they might not even be able to explain what the words mean themselves; speaking from experience. The meanings of good song lyrics are often left open to debate. I wouldn't hang on a song by the Goo Goo Dolls to tell you something deep about life. The song could do that for you, but that more depends on your own experience of life and your experience of the song.

If you're a Lynch fan, I recommend.

Here's a band that gets a bad rap, if you ask me:

The only reason I like that song is because it was in Twin Peaks: The Return. It reminds me fondly of the fucked up time in my life when I was watching that fucked up show.

Very cool. I don't know Chomsky super well, but I've always been sympathetic. I'll see if I have an intelligent and worthwhile question for him.

Hmm, this important thread has been neglected. I'm not listening to anything at the moment, however, here's a great record I just listened to at work:



1969? Wow.

An incredible film. It's based off of the novel Roadside Picnic by Arkady and Boris Strugatsky. Similar Hamlet-esque character in the novel, although less likeable but with perhaps more pathos, ironically. I like the film better, but I saw it first, and they are very different from one another.

Yes, the Hamlet comparison is apt. I would also throw The Stalker (seen in my profile pic), from Tarkovsky's film Stalker in that mix, although he lacks the social capital. Then again, I don't know if anyone has much social capital in that world.

It's quite good, although I think I might have connected with it more emotionally when I was younger. There are some truly profound insights, however. Worthy of it's own philosophy thread without question.

The thing to frustrates a lot of musicians is not being about to get in the zone. Sometimes it happens and sometimes it doesn't. You can't make it happen, but I think there are ways to allow it to happen more often. — Fooloso4

Sorry to jump in without reading everything, but “in the zone” is something I can hopefully comment on. With us creatives, the Achilles heel is discipline. Picasso said it best: “Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working.” I like this quote because it doesn’t dispel the myth (mythos) of creative inspiration, but it couches the fantastic within the monotonous everyday; that is, if you want to find inspiration, you must work. Hard. “Flow” comes and goes, but does so with the most frequency with those who show up to work.

.

So much pressure. I just started reading Steppenwolf by Herman Hesse. :groan: I needed a break from absurd otherworldliness, and figured existential crisis and spiritual longing and alienation would be the perfect tonic.

In other words, a must-read.

I had to dig, since I enjoyed Roadside Picnic but didn’t respond much to the description of Hard To Be a God, their other most well known novel. Snail is very bizarre and rather hard to follow but I ended up feeling very rewarded. Plus it’s short and moves quickly.

I get what you're saying, but this suggests to me that a purpose is always a conscious decision made, which I disagree with. I could have said "unconscious motivations" rather than "drives". I guess it's a rather Jungian view, which I know can be controversial.

I accept your description of your personal experience in that I trust you're being honest about it. But are you not of the persuasion that there are often unconscious drives that cause us to do or pursue certain things?

I agree. It brings up the psychology of philosophical investigation and self-examination, which, ironically, seems often unexamined. With respect @T Clark, it might not "feel inside" as if you're doing philosophy for any purpose, but that doesn't mean there isn't an underlying purpose or goal.

Maybe the 'spiritual' function of philosophy moved into literature, art, politics. — green flag

Yes indeed.

I agree.

Interesting. I think we have fundamentally different structures of experience. Then again, maybe you're just more well-adjusted while my neuroses dictate my philosophical thinking more than you.

Which is interesting, actually. I wonder to what extent people's interest in self-help correlates to their psychological states or conditions. And whether those interested in philosophy proper are in any better shape.

I just finished The Snail On The Slope by The Strugatsky brothers. I disliked it at first, but found it very rewarding and challenging by the end. Definitely will require a re-read.

I'm not suggesting that philosophy or Taoism be used as self-help, but I think there's an implicit suggestion in the concept of self-examination that suggests a telos of improvement. It doesn't have to be a willful and conscious striving at self-improvement, but the simple fact that someone has decided that self-examination would be a good thing suggests the telos to me. Like you're saying, philosophy can open one's eyes. To what and why? For what purpose?

As I see it, though the former implies the latter, the latter neither presupposes nor implies the former. — 180 Proof

If you mean improvement in the sense of pop self-help books, I agree and I'm not advocating for them. But see above in reply to Clarky.

Why examine oneself if not to improve oneself?

Woah, you read it already? Ok, I’ll see what I can do… I would like to re read it though, especially since I need to gather my thoughts in order to make a decent OP.

I'll need time (including time to re-read it), but I'm serious about a UBIK by Philip K. Dick thread. I don't know if you would enjoy it, Clarky, but it is accessible in the sense that it moves at a dizzying pace and the prose is simple. The contents of the plot, on the other hand...accessible? Uh, no. But I'd love to have you on board.

we haven't really dug into lichicher. — T Clark

Which is ironic, since we've held several short story contests.

But Horselover Fat? Come on, it's silly. — Manuel

Silliness is a PKD hallmark, though. The outfits people wear in UBIK alone are testament to this. I need to re-read VALIS; I wasn't ready for it, I don't think. PKD being a philosophical guy himself makes the semi-autobiographical nature of that one at least theoretically intriguing. But I get that it's polarizing.

Flow My Tears didn't do a lot for me. I found The Penultimate Truth much more compelling.

A Skanner Darkly is also very deep - about identity mostly, but lots of material. Several others, but Ubik can be interpreted in many ways. — Manuel

This is at the top of my PKD to-read list; basically the last "late period" novel for me.

I don't think a thread needs more than 4 or 5 people. And his books are also rather short, can be read in three or four days without much trouble. — Manuel

True. Ok, you've inspired me. Don't expect the thread tomorrow, or possibly even next week, but the seed has been planted. And I follow through. :razz:

Any thoughts on VALIS? :groan:

This will have to be my next PKD :grin: — Jamal

You're a brave man. :grimace:

Yes, theoretically it would be a great thread with a lot of depth and complexity, but the only issue is I don't think enough folks here have read him, or are interested in philosophy of art. That said, I may make one at some point. Or, by all means, go for it. @Jamal has been bugging me about starting a thread.

One that I found even more philosophical, but sort of sickeningly so, was The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch. If the majority of PKD novels feel like weird acid trips, that one was beyond the pale for me. I feel kind of scarred for life on that one, lol.

It’s my favorite PKD novel by a mile. Honestly a substantive philosophy thread could be made about that novel, or a philosophy reading group.

:up:

Ubik by Phillip K. Dick — Baden

:party:

Thoughts?

wrong thread whoops

The Snail On The Slope - Arkady and Boris Strugatsky

Exactly.