The next generation of preachers rely on these primary sources for their own authenticity. Right? — TheMadFool

Can't trust humans, period.

Some humans there at the time didn't go for human Divinity; other humans there at the time did go for human Divinity.

Can't trust humans even if the majority there at the time went against Divinity, no matter if that is one's favored argument.

Three hundred years later, Christianity really caught on. Can't trust humans even if later many went for Divinity, no matter if that is one's favored argument.

all the diverse opinionated preachers (indoctrinators proselytizers) out there, — jorndoe

TV Preachers

I was going through the channels and saw a Catholic priest saying and preaching “If you don’t believe in what we believe then you separate yourself from the holy body and blood and you know what that means. Well, we really don’t like to talk about the consequences of heresy but…”

That was crap.

Here’s a much better preaching idea:

For a good and better life, join the Weed Church:

The Church of the Weed

Weeds are the most energetic and alive things on the planet and therefore we can channel much of this vigor into our own selves. Costly vitamins and energy drinks are no longer needed, weeds being free and abundant. Trust me. Have faith. Weeds have the super power of nuclear energy without any of the explosive side effects.

Some weeds have roots three feet long! Even one molecule left of a pulled weed can regenerate the entire plant. Weeds are of the unlimited power. The weed is the Theory of Everything. This is the greatest discovery of all time.

Our focus is on plain old weeds, but no denomination of weed is excluded, and so the incense smoke spread about would most likely be pot, but I can’t say that here, if it is. This stuff may slightly drain some energy at first, but then the munchies will take over to allow us much and even more ingestion of our special weed salad. However, if anyone turns into a stoned statue that’s really OK since it’s just perfect for a church setting. The social hour and the church hour are exactly the same thing, but we will occasionally say things in honor of weeds and will have all varieties of weed pictures on the wall.

There is a fairly new ‘mile-a-minute’ weed around New York, and so this will be the centerpiece of the altar. Even the pews and chairs will be made out of woven weeds, as a constant reminder of the glory of weeds. The floor will look like the average person’s lawn—mostly weeds and clover and hardly any grass.

The weed salad will be washed down with dandelion wine and will provide such great energy to us all that we will become much more alive and creative, perhaps even posting 20 times a day, never even repeating posts, for our creativity will become unbounded.

The church/social hour would then be the only time that we’d all just be sitting around, instead of, like all day long now for many of the unweeded. The rest of life would become a blur of activity, weeders jumping and sprouting about in all kinds of fun and accomplishments. No one would ever feel bored again.

The weed is the way and the light and the energy.

Weeds entwine all things.

Weeds are our friends.

I can’t just prove all this by words, but if you try hard to think that you know you’re getting energy from weeds, then it will come to you that you know for sure when you try them. Think it and then you will feel it, just like when one watches wrestling shows. Some placebo effects may occur as well.

The Holy Weed Commandments

Thou shalt not step on a weed.
All weeds are to be treated equally.
Thou shalt not kill weeds except to use as food.
Love thy neighbor a whole lot, unless they are a grouch,
But more if they are attractive and you are both single.
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s weeds.

Activities and Outings

Rare and exotic weed expeditions.
Weed planting/harvesting parties.
Place-a-weed-on-every-doorstep program for publicity.
Feed-the-weed product sales for advancing weed growth.
Any questions or suggestions?

And, on others' behalf too, others that supposedly are universal, almighty, etc, yet silent, hidden, apparently indifferent, ... — jorndoe

Yes, humans wrote it all up, having much better penmanship than 'God', I guess.

Some say God is truth
Some say God is false — 3017amen

Would you that spangle of Existence spend
About The Secret—quick about it, Friend!
A Hair perhaps divides the False from True—
And upon what, prithee, may life depend?

A Hair perhaps divides the False and True;
Yes; and a single Alif were the clue—
Could you but find it—to the Treasure-house,
And peradventure to The Master too;

Whose secret Presence through Creation’s veins
Running Quicksilver-like eludes your pains;
Taking all shapes from Máh to Máhi and
They change and perish all—but He remains;

A moment guessed—then back behind the Fold
Immerst of Darkness round the Drama roll’d
Which, for the Pastime of Eternity,
He doth Himself contrive, enact, behold.

—From FitzGerald's Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam

It’s disappointing, I must say. — Possibility

aspects of reality — Gnomon

To the Quantum Depths of the Poetic Universe

From quantum non-locality and entanglement, we know that information is more primary than distance, and that things don’t have to have the appearance of being near each other to be connected and cause an effect.

Everything connected to everything would seem to be a ‘perception’ as far as one could be had by that network. The all-at-once connections, as like in a hologram, would seem to provide for for the direction of what goes on in the overall information process. I am thus thinking like a yogi and a guru, the entire cosmos situated within me.

Quantum non-locality seems to imply that every region of space is in instant and constant contact with every other, perhaps even in time as well, and so the holistic universe is governed by the property of the solitary whole—and so that could be the underlying guidance principle. An individual particle might ‘know’ something about what to do, acting according to all the others.

Thus both our consciousness and the holistic universe, each having a singular nature, would be the clue. Maybe they are of the same basis of fundamental consciousness, but separate as two manifestations, each controlling a different realm, such as internal and external, our internal consciousness giving us ‘future’, and the external consciousness granting ‘future’ to the universe. I don't know which has the tougher job.

Lee Smolin has it that qualia are intrinsic, as fundamental, and Chalmers has it that information is fundamental and can express itself in two ways, in consciousness and in matter.

Quantum entanglement suggests that each particle has the entire 3-D or 4-D map of the universe, the information ever updated, the universe being as a single entity. While this may not be consciousness at the level we have, it may help the universe accomplish something of the movements of particles and fields in their energy, mass, and momentum, in some global way that ever goes forward overall.

This may not seem to be saying a whole lot, in depth, but since the quantum realm is beneath everything then one would surmise that thee quantum realm must have all to do with everything that goes on.

It is still that the apparent atoms and molecules make the happenings, via physical-chemical reactions; however, this observation cannot be equated to an ‘explanation’, for we must wonder what underlies the chemical mattering and reacting that seems to have some unity of direction to it.

Well, I’d finished with the yogis and the gurus, and the seers and the oracles only know of the future; so, I surmised, to uncover the deepness of the present, for nature and the conscious animates, I must seek out the Grand Poet in her Uni-Verse, in order to fully apprehend the ethereal phantasms of the entangled and enchanted forest of nature, hopefully bringing them into the light.

Fortunately, I was a poet myself, and so I could gain entrance to the elfin dell, as a human, having to first pass through the neophytes, trying to resist their temptations and spells; however, the sensual can indeed take a back seat to the intellectual, although the ecstasy can be similar.

I had been to FairyLande once before, bringing my epic poem, ‘Flora Symbolica’, unto them, and writing up the results in ‘Elfin Legends’, and so they had bid me to return one day when I had a meaningful quest.

Theirs was more of an ethereal world, whereas mine was often clunky, except when I dreamt at night, and so it was time for me to wander again, to ask about and better understand the quantum guidance principle, especially learning this from those closer to nature and the heavens, they being the elven mixture of spirit–angel-beings and humans, and quite aware of the causal nexus.

I flew to England, to the special place, near Gallienne’s old haunts, and waited for the funnel to open up into a tunnel, and then through it I came out into their realm and walked on for a full day, seeing no one straight out yet, just a few sideward waverings, but noting many new colors hereto–fore unknown, as here there were more waves and frequencies.

Here the blesséd and haunted old forest,
Whereat the base of an oak I rest,
While all about lay wondrous deep coverts,
And a green-turfed path that leads o’er a crest.

They all knew what I was after, as evidenced in the first encounter with one of them.

“To pass and learn of the connectedness of all things, you must kiss me, after which I’ll give you your first clue.”

The kiss vibrated deep within my being, and I felt it to my core, and then she related, “All of life’s entities embrace one another, including cells, organisms, species, and biotope”.

Slumbering in the orient sunbeam,
I soft awoke, as dewdrops all agleam,
Refreshed by the delight of a daydream,
Then rose as mist, carried on the day-beam.

I was on my way again the next morning, the hours having flown by, as when Einstein had sat next to a pretty girl and had noted the much quicker passage of time, over the slower passage when touching a hot stove.

I learned more as I meandered through the labyrinth of the forest.

She said, “Hold me, and I will unveil some of the poetic structure afterward.”

Well, two days went by, someeehow, and she revealed more of my quest, “Living conscious creatures are as a poem, they ever revealing further dimensions and expressing new properties at every level of organization, via strokes, letters, phonemes, words, phrases, and sentences, in and of a [uni]verse of rhythm, reason, rhyme, meter, metric, and melody. This will relate to the quantum All.”

I was hungry for the continuation of life’s quantum poem, and hoped I’d be able to move on more quickly, but her allure was testing my resolve; however, she told me something very soon after we’d rubbed our cheeks together, “Meanings in life are not just discovered or gleaned by mere observation but by understanding through participation, these informationally derived meanings combined to make sense in a non-reductive process, as in the relational reality of life happening at our semantical level of syntactical information exchange, with no breaking of any of the holistic connections, all this as the epic whole of the book of nature.”

It was so still you could hear a nut fall,
And the musical strain of mystic call,
In soft tones flowered upon the silence,
As floating on the surface of the All.

“There is the particle and there is the wave—either one forced on us by our observations, being jointly known as the ‘wavicle’, all three states of which are truly not the actual reality.”

Of man and angel, one yet neither, they came,
To dwell forever, in shadow worlds, between
Form and substance, they, all elfin creatures
And all who float or fly as came from Paradise.

After two weeks with her, I had to survive the passage through the land of skulls and roses.

Finally, I emerged, unscathed, into the Land of Spring, and found out about growth.

“There are no objects that are identical with themselves over time, and the temporal sequence remains open. Nature is a ‘possibility gestalt’, with the world forming anew each moment, from the deeper, enfolded realm which is a unity in the sense of an indivisible ‘potentiality’ which can realize itself in many possible ways, it not being a strict sum of the partial states.”

‘Twas that time of morn when the exiled rise,
Thrown to time’s Earthly bondage through the skies,
Being for an hour their own Heavenly selves,
Their full glory unhidden by disguise.

“It still appears to us, though, that the world consists of parts that have continued from ‘a moment ago’, and thus retain their identity in time; yet, matter really only appears secondarily, as a congealed potentiality.”

These forest fairies, dryads, nymphs, and fauns,
Ever flash their nude blossoms on the lawns.
They beckon me along, for though the air
I pass thoughts of love, verses, and songs.

“In a stable configuration of matter, such as in the inanimate, all the quantum uncertainties are effectively statistically averaged out, this thus ever being deterministic; but in the case of the statically unstable but dynamically stable configurations, the ‘lively’ features of the underlying quantum structure have a chance to surface to the macroscopic level.”

Magical things I saw, that often appear
Elsewhere when one’s eyes close but for a second:
Wingèd ladies, and flowered butterflies,
Whose prints are pressed as dust upon the pansies.

Unicorns and chimeras wandered by,
With nixies, gremlins, and centaur men;
Faeries danced, caught by a believing glance,
As dreamy visions held me sleepy-eyed.

A flush of youth shot through us, as the chain
Of light from angel to faerie added my link,
And my eyes were sparks of bright burning fire,
Sense extended in a new dimension.

And so they told me more, “Physical phenomena are made of information processors that generate overlappings of correlated multi–dimensional wave fields which are propagating through time, as fields of possibility, whose intensity is a measure of the probability of an object-like realization.”

The life of her face is in her deep blue eyes,
Soft-lipped mouth, and the ears that pointed rise,
As the moon and stars reflect in a pool,
Which look as for a lifetime pours surprise.

“So, there is form before substance, relationality before a materiality that is of secondary importance, its information being primary. Impressions of realizations are left in our world by the gestalt that ‘lives’ in the multidimensional spaces of quantum superpositional possibility.”

I dive into her eyes, her soulful gate,
And worship before her heart’s flaming grate,
Midst flowers in the gardens of her dreams,
Then whirl back up through her eyes as her mate.

“There are no point masses then, but only smudged particles, such as we know of in the space-filling representations of the distribution of electrons in the shells of atoms—the ‘cloud’.

“What remains unchanged over time are certain properties that find expression in the laws of conservation of energy, momentum, electrical charge, etc., these necessarily being closer to the basis of all.”

At last, I met the ultimate Poet, the Elfin Queen, who reevealed, “There is a relationship structure that arises not only from the manifold and the complicated interactions of the imagined building blocks of matter, but also one that is substantially more inherent and holistic.”

She continued, “So, then, the weaves of the quantum bits as strokes makes for the letters of the elementals, as the alphabet of the standard model, forming the words as the atoms that go on to form the molecules as the phrases, on into cells as sentences, up to the paragraphs of the organisms, and unto the stories of the species, via the unity of life’s conscious literature as the unified verse in which we live out our poems.”

I’m left with a feeling that’s no mere spell,
But a fact in Heaven that’s fancy in Hell,
Of elemental affinity’s flame,
Deeper than thought, much older than speech can tell.

I headed back home, this taking a few months, never stepping into the same universe twice.

Pictures from my trip:

a nice poem on God, a mottled color of truth — 3017amen

‘God’s image reflects the mottled colors
Painted by human artists upon the air
Where the wormed apple was before the fall
That rotted away truth’s Tree of Knowledge.

the process goes on — Gnomon

Reality/Language analogy:

Capability is the energy/gravity
that papers the covariant quantum fields
that ink the particles of the standard model
that stroke the alphabet letters of the atoms
(as coded in stars)
that word the dictionary molecules
that phrase the biotype DNA cells
that verb the subjects
that sentence the creatures
that paragraph the species
that story the ongoing tree of life
that books the literature of the unified-verse
that libraries the Cosmos.

(something to work on)

the concept of God is: God is a mottled color of truth. — 3017amen

The concept of 'God' is a concept.

the program for our evolving world — Gnomon

The program doesn't do well; there were five near extinctions, with a sixth on the horizon.

cite their sources - holy books and so-called prophets — TheMadFool

Which are still from humans saying something as if it is true.

10. It doesn’t seem like a God’s world, and so fundamentalist literalist Biblical ‘reasons’ cannot apply here, about a ‘fall’, for those already went away. The pride of being special and deserving of reward and avoiding punishment is still a nice wish, though, for us electro-chemical-bio organisms who appear be be as organic as anything else that grows in nature. Hope grants comfort.

11. God’s operations, curiously restricted to be the same as nature’s has us not being able to tell them apart from nature’s, but which is more likely, the natural or the supernatural? Earth is just where it ought to be, in the Goldilocks zone, and not impossibly out near Neptune.

12. And why must there be a truly distinct transcendent, immaterial, intangible, super realm when it would still have to give and take energy in the physical material language, talking its talk and walking its walk? Dubious, plus the speculation of an invisible realm goes nowhere toward it being so, it tending toward making excuses for what ought to be everywhere.

13. So, we can sit on a fence and go to church half the time or estimate the probability either way, but note that there can be no blame for not knowing what can’t be shown for sure. It’s all in what it does for you.

Let us have wine, lovers, song, and laughter—
Water, chastity, prayer the day after.
Such we’ll alternate the rest of our days—
Thus, on the average, we’ll make Hereafter!

spirit — 3017amen

To perk you up and lift your spirit, kind of:

What if its intention — Possibility

Too fundamental for 'intention'. Minds are billions of years into the future.

But it's still a Materialistic Space-Time concept that can't explain its own existence. — Gnomon

No alternative to it.

motivated by the Intention of eternal omnipotential BEING or G*D — Gnomon

Too complex to be fundamental.

In my thesis, the equivalent to your ZPE was eternal Chaos (random potential), which was enformed by Intention into the organization of our Cosmos. — Gnomon

Yes, necessarily random, having no input.

Since, by the law of Logic, no two things in reality can exist in the same space-time, they are necessarily polarized and repel each other. — Gnomon

Perhaps like one is a positive field lump and the other its a negative field lump (trough).

A human programmer — Gnomon

I was a programmer at IBM for 31 years; have now been retired for near 20 years.

attention; will or determination to achieve something — Possibility

Still the same; it's too simple and small.

How might a necessary-fundamental-eternal-capability begin to develop a system of mind? — Possibility

It wouldn't have a little mind from which to intend to develop a larger system of mind.

drawing distinctions between lower life-forms and higher consciousness... . — 3017amen

Great response. Why do we hope, is there survival value to Faith, Hope and Love? — 3017amen

We wish and hope because we want things, such as to ever continue on in an eternal life.

A learned, smart, philosophical person will never attempt either. — god must be atheist

That's what I am saying. The claims can't be preached or taught as if the claims are true; however, this dishonestly is widespread.

What is leap of Faith? — 3017amen

Wishes and hopes.

Christian Existentialist — 3017amen

Still in one of the camps whose 'God' can't be shown, regardless of their claims.

Any takers? — 3017amen

Of course atheism and theism are untenable since their 'truths' can't be shown, and it gets worse, though, than indefensible, in that it is the height of intellectual dishonesty to proclaim them. The same for anything else that can't be shown.

We developed our abilities over a very long time; they weren't just granted to us. I'm not musical, though.

perhaps it was programmed to evolve gradually over eons, via natural processes. — Gnomon

I think the eternal first cause needs to be simple and operate at a tiny level, as near-nothing, to qualify as fundamental, and of course would still be doing its eternal thing now, such as with the quantum fluctuations at the base point energy level. (They actually call it the zero point energy; however, the energy doesn't seem to be zero.)

Virtual particles get produced in pairs, probably because the first cause, not able to halt and be still, has to jiggle/divide something into haves that it then has to put back into the base, and so forth, with these two effects always having to both occur, one ever after the other.

Somehow the pair's virtual particles were driven apart (inflation?) and so became separated and real faster than they could annihilate and return the energy.

The above is sketchy, but once we have some particles persisting a bit, the real 'programming'/'coding' would be done at each new level, such as quarks coding for protons and neutrons, those then coding for atoms, the atoms coding for molecules, molecules for cells, etc.

So, rather than all being coded at once, it occurs in stages, at each stable or semi-stable level.

It's kind of like the way language works. The sentence has its own level of rules and comprehension, as well as still being based on the lower levels of phrases, words, grammar, phonemes, letters, and strokes, and such too for its parts if they need to be attended to at their own level.

Can't really have a full-blown Programmer just sitting around as First, it never having been put together from even more fundamental parts.

I apologize for interrupting your thread — Gnomon

No problem, but, thanks, actually, for it is about the first response addressing a proposition in the OP.

6. Existence/capability has no alternative, given that nonexistence has no being as a source and that there is indeed something, and so existence of something/capability is mandatory, there not being any choice to it. It’s a given; no magic required. Still, it could operate almost as what is called ‘God’, except that it’s not a Mind.

7a. We see that the One of Totality continually transitions/transmutes, never being able to remain as anything particular, which matches its nature supposed due to no information being able to come into the Eternal in the first place that never was, for the One Fundamental Eterne has to be ungenerated and deathless if it is so. But how can there be a finite absolute One with an impossible None outside it?

7b. Or all could be relative if there are no absolutes, for Totality can’t have anything outside it. So then Totality must be relative to itself.

7c. Of course, either way, the capability remains, as necessity, with no alternative, without needing any cause for it to be. It is the Ground of Determination — G.O.D. It has no opposite and so it is not remarkable.

8. Aside from the trivial definition of free will being that without coercion the will is free to operate, and the useless definition of the harmful random will equaling ‘freedom’, the deeper notion of ‘free’ as being original and free of the brain will is of a currency never being able to be stated and cashed in on, leaving ‘determined’ to continue to be the opposite of ‘undetermined’. This stands against a ‘God’.

While eternalism can’t yet be told apart from presentism, the message from both is of a transient ‘now’, whether pre-determined or determined as it goes along. All hope then, is crushed, both for us and the Great Wheel itself having any potency. This is the great humility; all hubris is gone.

It is enough, then, that we have the benefit of experiencing and living life well, sometimes, much more so given this modern age, although still with sweat, tears, and aversive substrates of emotions that those of the future might consider to be barbaric. The early days of humankind were horrendous.

Please only attend to the OP propositions and their continuations directly.

Late Afternoon at the OK Club — Part 4 — The History of All History

Bodleian 28

Life’s spirit to the causeless was near blind.
Quoth I, “If the Beginning you could find—
The Alif—of word, phrase, and uni-verse,
Thou needs not the alphabet—All’s been mined.”

Night is falling and dinner is on the cusp. We take a break from our game of pool, obtain another drink, Houdini’s Vodka Gimlet, from Martin’s bar, and step outside for a moment, and surprisingly hear the following from the night skies:

“I’m the darkest,” says the Shadow to the Night.
“No,” says Midnight, “compared to me you’re bright.”
“You floodlights!” says Starless Space, “Stop your fight.
The darkest plight is the lack of love’s delight!”

We look at each other. She relates:

Days are the cyclic units of time’s pearls—
Beads worn round in the necklace of the months;
They distance themselves, like night echoes,
Into the rosary of the seasons.

Back inside, Ruby Yacht readies to continues her Cosmic description, naming it ‘The History of All History of Our Universe—From the First Instant Unto the Last.”

Martin braces himself for the shower of cosmology that is about to spew forth to bare the rafters of the universe’s beginning, middle, and end, and so he raises three glasses in Bodleian toasts to all and especially to Ruby:

39
My heart’s blood gleams like a melted ruby,
The wealth of mine—the gem that flows in me;
My goblet enshrines my wounded heart’s tears—
Wine is my soul and the cup my body.

87
Bring thy ruby mined, in a crystal thrust,
The drink that raises one up from the dust,
For who knows what breezes blow into gales.
This world is but a passing whirlwind’s gust.

92
Rubies from the vine’s mines are melted up,
As the moon-veil dissolved in the sun’s sup,
In pearled crystal goblets of the flow;
Oh, sparkle with life’s essence sweet—thy cup!



“The Great Wheel of our universe proceeds very quickly at first. At 1E-36 seconds, in a GUT transition in a hell of a short time, the strong force separates from the electro–weak force, the strong force eventually providing for stability and the weak force for changeability, another great balance. Inflation begins, maybe, as a slow rolling scalar field generates negative pressure, causing an exponential expansion of spacetime. The doubling is of a vacuum energy density of 1E73 tons/cm^3. Quantum fluctuations lock in nearly scale invariant 1E-5 variation in energy density. Here the enigma of the ever immortal is undone and unloosed through its portal.”

“Or at least inflation is proposed, for nothing else makes sense yet. The galaxies would seem to be the quantum fluctuations writ large across the night sky.”

She continues, we alternating, “At 1E-34 seconds, inflation quickly ends, the decay of the scalar inflaton field causing reheating. Is this the ‘let there be light moment’? No, photons don’t exist yet, but other massless vector quanta like left and right weak and B-L particles may exist. Things are not well known about this era. You and I are still but a twinkling in the cosmic eye.”

“What is here now was there in the beginning.”

“At1E-34 to 1E-8 seconds, in the quark era, there is the quark gluon plasma, and then quarks and perhaps super particles dominate matter content. At 1E-17 to 1E-15 seconds, SUSY breaking occurs when proposed super partners acquire mass with the LSP expected to have a mass of about 10 Tev. In induced gravity models, this is where mass energy first generates the induced gravity field; gravity is born, and we are grounded. “At 1E-10 seconds, there comes the electroweak transition, when the electroweak force, under the action of the Higgs mechanism, breaks symmetry. The photon is born. Standard model particles acquire mass.”

“Yeah! The photons guide us, as illumination beside us, while the mind whirls round and round, as the ear draws forth the sound, as the eye sees the light, and of the dark the fright. Fear not the proof—it’s the beauty of the truth.”

(To be continued)

It just depends how you word it. — god must be atheist

It's also whatever people do to weigh the balance either way with their guestimations. I don't think we need to sidetrack into math, set theory, probability theory, and truth tables. We have to estimate about what can't be known for sure.

consciousness — 3017amen

wonderment — 3017amen

We are naturally curious and so we are now in the process of asking nature about this complex feat accomplished over a long time. Once there was little or no consciousness in creatures and now it is full blown in us. Since, as in all developments, it wasn't instant, this stands against an All-Might doing it.

This leaves us but with the prospect of a Deity with only the means to start something going that might be workable, it stuttering along through five near extinctions unto our precarious present condition tottering upon a sixth possible extinction from a four degree centigrade global warming rise projected.

5a. It’s still that the religious might then suppose a ‘God’ Deity who is like a scientist who throws a bunch of stuff together that is balanced and energetically reactive enough, but not too much so that it races along too fast, etc., to make for something livable coming out of it, but, again, really, what is a fully formed person-like being doing sitting around beforehand, this also being all the more of a quandary that ever enlarges the question rather than answering it.

5b. But, if it is supposed that life has to come from a Larger Life, then a regress ensues, making this not to be a good template. As for a Deity trying to put workable stuff together, this is much like the idea of a multiverse. We continue to estimate no 'God'.

trying to disprove an existing God (that's a space for emprical questions and answers) — TheWillowOfDarkness

Time for my new thread showing not a disproof but an unlikeliness of 'God'.

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/6817/an-estimate-for-no-god

'flat earth' nor 'no flat earth' — Banno

Yes, agnostic on this and all else, thus only probability estimates remain, which may be higher for non invisibles.

It is evident that since neither 'God' nor 'no God' can be shown for thee sure satisfaction of all, the positions of both atheism and theism are indefensible and are thus intellectually dishonest as surety claims, leaving all to have to be truly agnostic, with leanings either way based but on observatonal probability.

Religion is a 'philosophy' with all the questions left out.

on the basis that all individual particulars contingent, manifold, and subject to decay. — Wayfarer

That's fine for their temporary existence as penultimates from some Existent capability.

Yes. A God so devoted to watching humanity must be terribly bored, unless peculiarly obsessed by us. In either case, a sad, strange figure. — Ciceronianus the White

We are God's streaming soap opera reality show.

7'th proposition — Wallows

One cannot speak well about ever invisible unknowns, and so it can't amount to anything and rather becomes a waste of silence, but if it grants comfort then it's fine for one's living choice.

higher esoteric realm. — Wallows

Although Existence is necessity and thus natural, requiring no magic for it to be, it's still the eternal basis of our existence and so there is an awe about it, as the source of us and nature.

1. The concept of the trinity is logically impossible — 3017amen

It doesn't matter, really, as it is not surly established and is already once removed from its base upon a 'God' that isn't established either, as an unknown, for then only the idle chatter of nebulous abstracts of word salads pour forth… even from Newton.

2. The nature of our existence remains unexplained — 3017amen

Cosmic and biological evolution noted over 14 billion years satisfies this.

3. The integer of consciousness and subconsciousness is logically impossible — 3017amen

4. The nature of our consciousness is unexplained — 3017amen

We're not able to inspect the first person private aspect from a public view. Yet, nature made it, as in (2).

HALLEY, NEWTON, AND HOOKE

Halley was a sea captain, a cartographer, a professor
Of geometry, a deputy of the Royal Mint, an astronomer,
And the inventor of the deep-sea diving bell,
And wrote some on magnetism, tides,
Planet motions, and fondly on opium.

He invented the weather map and actuarial table ages,
Even proposed methods to work out the Earth’s old age,
Its distance from the sun, even how to keep fresh fish,
But one thing he didn’t do was to discover Halley’s comet,
For he merely noted that it was yet another return of it.

He made a wager with Robert Hooke, the cell describer,
And with the great and stately Christopher Wren:
They bet upon why the planets’ orbit were ellipses.

Hooke, a known credit-taker,
Claimed he’d solved the problem,
But had to conceal it
So that others could yet know the satisfaction.

Well, Halley became consumed with finding the answer,
So he called upon the Lucasian Mathematics Professor.
Isaac Newton was indeed brilliant beyond measure,
But was solitary, joyless, paranoid—no pleasure.

Once he had inserted a needle in his eye and poked around,
Far inserting the bodkin between the eye and the bone.
Another time, he’d stared at the sun for so very long
That he had to spend many days in a darkened room.

Frustrated by mathematics, Isaac invented the calculus,
And then for twenty-seven years kept it hidden from us.
Likewise, he did the same with the understanding of light
And spectroscopy, keeping it for thirty years in the dark.

For Newton,
Science was but a partial part of his life’s routes,
For much of his time
Was given to alchemy and religious pursuits.

He was wholeheartedly devoted
To the religion of Arianism,
Whose main tenet was
That there could be no Holy Trinity.

Ironically, he worked as a Professor at Trinity College,
The only one there who was not Anglican.

He also spent an inordinate amount of time studying
The floor plan of the lost temple of Solomon the King,
Even learning Hebrew, the better to scan the texts.

Another single minded quest was
To turn base metals into precious ones,
His papers revealing this preoccupation
Over optics and planetary motions and such mentations.

Well, Halley asked Newton what the curve would be
If the planets’ attraction toward the sun was
The reciprocal to the square of their distance from it.
Newton promptly answered, of course, an “ellipse”.

Not finding his calculations of it, Newton not only rewrote it,
But retired for two years to produce his master work,
The Plilosophiae Naturalis Principia Mathematica.

To Halley’s horror,
Newton refused to release the crucial third volume,
Without which the first two would make little sense.
There had been a dispute between Newton and Hooke
Over the priority of the inverse square law in the book.

That solved by Halley’s diplomacy, the Royal Society
Had pulled out from the publication, failing financially,
For, the year before, there had been a very costly flop
Called The History of Fishes; so, Halley himself popped
The funds for the publication out of his own pocket.

Newton contributed nothing,
As usual, and, to make matters worse,
Halley had just taken a position as the society’s clerk,
They failing to pay the promised 50 pounds to his purse,
Paying him only with very many copies of
The History of Fishes!

Anywho, to that end regarding the last point about the mystery of existence — 3017amen

Well, we have to mention the Trinity to stay on topic. Newton spent much of his life railing against the Trinity. Ironically, he worked at Trinity College. OK, that's done.

Existence isn't a mystery, since it has no alternative; it has to be, with no option not to be.

how is it that we are able to produce unresolved paradox's like those 2 statements above. — 3017amen

They misleadingly stated unpredictables as fact.

we don't know why a lot of things in nature exist — 3017amen

Existence had no alternative and so what is here now was inherent.

So in that sense, since we have these unexplained things happening, why is it such a leap to conclude that the supernatural exists? — 3017amen

Because then that answer becomes all the more explained and so then a higher explanation is needed, over the lesser one, and so forth. So, perhaps the simple is First, with complexity becoming later on.