You appear to be the Kelley-Ann Conway of talking about relativity. Free speech has its limits, if you're just a troll. Keep trolling and I myself will request you be banned. — tim wood

Real life science demonstrated. This is how it is really done.

So now we have mind without brains and life without physical bodies — prothero

Well, that is pretty silly. As silly as suggesting chemistry comes before mind. No matter that no one ever suggested this.

Time to start observing life as opposed to substituting stories?

biology, chemistry and physics which underlie it, — prothero

There is the point of view that inevitable leads to fantastical conclusions as reached by over zealous readers of Relativity. What started out as some mathematics to explain compare and transform measurements becomes - without even a single breath of reelection - a full blown ontology. Welcome to the world of Sci Fi time travel. The Mind created mathematics, chemistry, physics, and all other sciences, not the other way around.

Duration is what we all experience as life. Forget the clocks. They are limited tools for attempting to establish simultaneity of events. Nothing more. People are so apt to get carried away but a good Sci Fi story. Stories are fun and easily contrived. Understanding life takes - a long, long time.

BTW, science as an industry, is about as far away from objectivity as anything can be. In anyway, case, objectivity if science is just another one of those myths for those who like to believe in objectivity.

In fact my argument is about a discrete movement. — bahman

No such animal in this universe. Inapplicable to the study of nature. It is only a game to pass the time - which is perfectly fine as long as it is recognized as such.

THERE ARE NO STATES in continuous movement. Zeno's paradoxes smartly demonstrate this.

States are a construct of the mind to solve practical problems. It is symbolic. If one substitutes states for the nature of nature, one will get paradoxes. States can be used when appropriate in technological development, not when it comes to a living nature. Philosophers shouldn't use states. The tool doesn't belong because there is nothing static in the universe.

Philosophy is not science. There are huge problems when the tools of one bleed into the other.

generated by my mind — Xav

One has to be cognizant of other minds. We are not alone. There is mind/life everywhere and it would be jumping too far to believe that we are able to observe all possible mind/life forms. We can only proceed from where we are and then move a bit further. Certainly others have reported experiences that I have never had and vice-versa. Part of learning about Life is sharing.

hat scientific observations and physical empirical measurements do not explain everything, they are a good starting point for deeper insights — prothero

About measuring dead things, that is all. Einstein (actually, it was probably his wife) used some crazy mathematics to describe the effects that gravity has on measurements and matter and thanks to some Sci Fi writers, bingo, bango, it becomes a new ontology about the nature time. How's that? It has zero to do with life and duration. Never was meant to, never will be. Time (the time we experience and feel) is not in any equation. That it is, is called flight of fantasy.

Life is the providence of itself, the experience of Life is that if the Observer, and substituting dead things or symbolics for the nature of Life will get someone no where except utter confusion. Zeno demonstrated this in a most amusing way.

If someone is accelerated, the physical life will die and I can only speculate what will happen to the mind. But whatever it does, it certainly will have nothing to do with ticking clocks.

To give it the emphasis it deserves. I use lowercase for things like rocks and particles. Too much religious worship of dead things like computers like Apple and Microsoft, not enough feeling for Life.

What's your purpose for being on this forum? Is it religious in nature? You do have a choice to do otherwise, right?

I don't know how the universe came to be — Xav

Fair enough. Just something to contemplate then.

The only thing I can know is that I exist and I believe I exist as some kind of contextual existence because I am inarguable more than the matter that makes me. — Xav

The "more" can be a continuum of differences. Matter may be just a form of mind as Peirce and Bergson speculated.

you state that every event has a purpose, you are setting forth the basis of religious doctrine. It inserts meaning into life as it indicates higher purpose and a reason for our being in existence. — Hanover

Purpose is the essence of Life. The purpose is to create, observe, learn, and evolve. To have fun.

There is no religion here, just simple observation of Life. I dare say that suggesting there is no purpose, given all the evidence that is easily observed, would be some sort of religion.

We are minds within minds within minds - as there are waves, within waves within waves.

Consciousness and unconsciousness are exactly as they are experienced. It flows in cycles. Memory is embedded in the fabric of mind/universe and it is constantly evolving as it creates and learns. One only needs to observe.

Not that facts, science or even empirical data — prothero

When they accelerate a person to the speed of light, let me know what happens.

What I object to it's flight of fantasies replacing actual observations. You keep substituting clocks for life. Gross misrepresentation of the experience of Life. Duration cases for me when I am unconscious, clocks keep ticking. BIG difference. Clock time is not life (real) time - the time of duration. Why all the substitution? Because science doesn't have the foggiest notion about the nature of Life, so it substitutes dead matter. That will get someone far.

Too much fantasy in science nowadays. Neurons are minds. Time is clocks. Drugs are healthy. What a mess.

d as I said before, no one gives much of a thing for factory workers anyway. — Coldlight

Or the slave labor in Africa, Latin America or Asia.

There are millions of pay gaps but only one counts.

All manufactured political distraction.

Just follow the Pied Piper. You want to talk about pay gaps? Let's talk about the slave black labor in prisons created by the Clintons and their allies or maybe the slave Latino population created by the uber-class. Maybe the slave labor in Asia?

There is only one pay-gap.

Keep following the misdirection, I'm sure it will get better for the top 1%.

There is only one type of pay gap, and that is between the top 1% which owns the majority of the world's wealth and the other 99% that are witnessing a slow erosion in their standard of living and fighting work the other ones in the 99% for a share of their overall decreasing wealth. I guess Bitcoins will leave the day.

Never changes, just read history.

Clocks run based on physical principles. In the case of atomic clocks on the emissions of atoms. If the physical process on which the clocks keep time is slowed by gravity there is little reason to think the chemical processes, biochemical processes and other processes of life — prothero

You just made the same error of equivalence between physical process and the process of duration which by nature is continuous and heterogenous. Where in GTR are there explanations for the experience of duration as we are daydreaming or sleeping? The experience of living is not ruled by clock measurements.

This is an example of getting carried away and jumping to all kinds of assumptions. We create clocks to measure simultaneity and then all of a sudden, out of no where, our experience of existing depends on it. Not so fast.

As a matter of observation, the human body which is under constant acceleration, just lives. If placed under extreme forces it will die. As for the Mind, I don't know, but I do speculate.

We are all involved in sharing experiences." are both statements that you believe are true of ALL minds, — Harry Hindu

It is a simple observation. If you noticed any thing that is not changing it any person that is not creating let me know. (There actually is non-duration, but I'll leave that aside for now). All of this subject to change. Everything is evolving. There are no Laws, just some habits.

But minds are not created from nothing, they are a context of the physical world and how was the nature of the cosmos generated? There cannot be an answer. — Xav

Suit yourself. If you wish to believe a god created the Universe instead of Mind, that is your call. The difference being that Mind is there while a god (in any form) is created by the Mind - in this case your Mind.

made of atoms and in turn waves of energy resonating into matter — Xav

No such thing as atoms. Everything is entangled. Academia still teaches 17th century physics because it helps the materialist cause.

Yes something is resonating, but what? Everyone the math equations don't work out, science creates another math, another constant, or another force. It's just like in mythology where new gods are created to explain something new. Now we have dark forces and dark matter, presumably to fit nicely into the Start War sagas.

What is resonating? Mind.

results of evolution and our physical anatomy and the behavioral results of it. — Xav

So it's Evolution that is designing? Just a manufactured placeholder for God. No difference. Making up a new word does not make it any different. All of this should be covered in high school, but it isn't, because if a student challenges the dogma it is a D for sure.

Give me one example of something that has been created from nothing — Xav

The Mind is always there. Sometimes experiencing duration (awake), sometimes not (asleep without dreaming, our unconscious). The impulse of the Mind, which we witness as can heart beat, is always there.

Here is the quantum version of what I just said:

"According to present-day understanding of what is called the vacuum state or the quantum vacuum, it is "by no means a simple empty space".[1][2] According to quantum mechanics, the vacuum state is not truly empty but instead contains fleeting electromagnetic waves and particles that pop into and out of existence.[3][4][5]"

Philosophy can move ahead with quickly once our minds stops denying itself (for fun).

Time dilation is a real observable and measurable phenomena. Time dilation is seen in both special relativity (relative motion) and general relativity (gravity or acceleration) .
In fact the GPS system would be worthless were the effects of time dilation on the clocks in the satellites not taken into account. In this instance general relativity (gravity) effects dominate. — prothero

All this says is that clocks are affected by gravity. I'm not surprised. But this has nothing to do with duration of life. This is what Bergson and others reject, i.e. that clock measurements have anything to do with experiences biological life. To make matters worse for Relativity, STAR head no place in reality and GTR had no place for very time (as we know it). However the kinds of leaps in imagination that science is well-known for. Scientists just get carried away. A few neurons moving and they discovered everything about mind.

I think the idea of creation is an inherently flawed concept — Xav

Creation it's very profound and fundamental. It describes what we (our minds) are doing throughout our lives - forum posts being but one example. The philosophical path is to extend this observation and afternoon to understand life and nature as a cycle of creation (duration) and non-creation (no-duration).

I am confused if you disagree with the fact that we are all bouncy particles, that yes were discovered recently and so what, what do you think we are? — Xav

The concept of bouncing particles, while popular with 17th century materialists, vanished in the early 20th century experiments which eventually led to quantum physics. What do I believe we are? We are observers, explorers, and creators that are evolving along with the rest of the universe as we learn.

As for why we eat big macs despite the repercussions is very simple. Our design .. — Xav

OK. Who's designing? I say our Minds.

What constructs the essence of one's being? — Lone Wolf

Too know thyself, that is the question. We are an observer of ourself as are others. Who am I? It is called process of constant discovery which changes us as we discover. Yesterday I was a student of history and today a meditator. Tomorrow an artist. One cannot grasp change. One can only obseve it as c it changes, and everyone will observe up something different, even as the observer observes itself.

I don't believe that mind can be observed — Janus

It's not that difficult. It's right there.

From Peirce's Law of the Mind (note the title of the article):


"I have begun by showing that tychism must give birth to an evolu-
tionary cosmology, in which all the regularities of nature and of
mind are regarded as products of growth, and to a Schelling-fashioned
idealism which holds matter to be mere specialised and partially
deadened mind."

As far case Peirce is concerned, he proposes a Daoist-like Tychism which begats mind, which begats matter as deadened mind.

Bergson adopted some of this in his own view of the Creative Force and Matter.

Take your pick; whatever you choose, you will find plenty of others that disagree. — Janus

I just observe my mind doing its thing. For some reason Descartes gets credit for this observation even though the ancient cultures pretty much observed the same. If someone wishes to make up stories of non-existent particles getting together and playing soccer or talking things over on a forum, that their deal not mine.

As for Pierce, he wrote that Mind came first which is not that much different from Daoism.

There are many discernible states of change within the "one BIG STATE" of change that we call the universe. That is what science studies states of change, rates of change and regularities of change. Do you find a problem with that? — Janus

Everything is continuously changing. Science just approximates. Problems arise when people start substituting approximations (for some practical application) for the actual experience. That's what creates paradoxes, Zeno's being the most famous.

The universe is one gigantic blob that constantly changing and we are changing with it and we (our minds) are causing change. This is real evolution. No need to fabricate some Laws of Nature that naturally loves Big Macs.

Ok. Everything is constantly changing. No need to make it more complicated than that. If you v want to say there is one and only one BIG STATE of change, so that the word state is worked into the sentence, no big deal. We can work in as many scientific words as one wishes.

Sentience most certainly did not create the universe. — Xav

So what did? It just happened? Ok. Everything just happened.

Please someone tell me if I'm making any sense or if I should go see a psychologist. — Xav

No you don't have to go to a psychologist. You just like envisioning yourself as some bouncy particles which actually haven't existed since quantum theory one hundred years ago. Be that as it may, all you have to do now is convince yourself that quantum waves Have a natural, persistence affinity toward eating Big Macs even if it wipes out their natural affinity to create life so that they can play soccer together.

Or, you can just take the position it all just happened - kind of like a Magnificent Miracle.

It has form that is constantly changing. There is no state, ever, there is continuous change.

It's Sunday. Time to go to church and worship the Brain.

Didn't realize your point is that the body is living and is constantly healing itself. It is intelligent. Every single part of the body has intelligence.

"When your brain tries to heal itself, functions that were once held in damaged parts of the brain are then transferred to new, healthy parts of the brain through the process of neuroplasticity. This process is what allows you to regain lost movement, speech function, and other abilities after experiencing a stroke."

The brain is living and tries to heal like every other part of the body.

Can you direct your kindergarten understanding of Life to someone else who can really appreciate it?

So what do you think is best

You can cut off your legs, arms; remove various parts of the body such as the spleen and kidneys; several feet of intestine; you can even gat a machine to do your breathing and pumping blood - all miraculously WITHOUT affecting the functioning of the mind.
If you do ANYTHING to the brain, you change the mind is profound ways. — charleton

If you knock out the main transmission station, things go blank. So? Says nothing. As for your pumping stations, they too will die out. People die.

What do you think it could be? — Harry Hindu

Maybe money? I figure that may be the reason why opioids are still "rationally" being prescribed even though they are killing 10s of thousands of people each year. I suppose there is a rational reason to explain this all.

Yep, I'll put my money in money as the single biggest reason for killing throughout history. I guess for some, this is quite rational.

objective state-of-affairs (laws) — Harry Hindu

There is no objective state of affairs. Everything is in continuous flux. We are all involved and sharing experiences.

And when the heck did I ever use the concept of Laws? Everything is constantly changing. However, habits are formed which appear to be repetitive but are always different.

The fundamental error in all academic and scientific analysis of the universe is replacing symbols (which are static) for flow, which is what we are all experiencing. This is where philosophy can step in and say "what the heck"?. Instead philosophy plays along, even substituting some measurement which science calls time for the real thing.

There are no states. Everything is continuous. This idea of states is a symbolic concept that may be of practical use but does not describe the universe. If you insist on states, then you cannot understand or explain what is transpiring. This is where academia education goes off on it's on track.

My argument has nothing to do with Zeno argument. What I am arguing is that you need a mind with ability to annihilate and create in order to have motion. — bahman

There Mind is creating new forms by use of will and it is recognizing and conceiving forms by use of memory but it is not annihilating. The universe is more like a clay of energy that is constantly being manipulated and changing.

There is no series. The universe is a continuous and entangled. Using symbolics such as words, mathematics, or logic cannot be used to represent a continuous universe in flux. The only b way to understand it is via observation.

Of course there is the laws of nature. We experience it in any moment of our lives. Mind is however dominate to the laws of nature. — bahman

I have no idea what Laws you are experiencing. I am (my mind) is experiencing all kinds of things, but certainly not Laws. The Mind made up the Laws of Nature as it did God. It is a story. A myth. The Mind likes creating myths and stories. It's fun.

There are no Laws of Nature (totally manufactured concept) and life (mind) is continuous.