So it is understandable that women felt that their very biological nature betrayed them, but I think they, and she, was wrong about that. So all the stuff about liberation from childbirth, I simply reject. — unenlightened
Is this supposed to appeal to me because she's a woman and some feminist? Don't do that.
Drowkin was batshit crazy and most sane people do not care about her except men trying to prove some point, 99% of the time. — Cobra
This post is just a bunch of it's a woman's fault because she has freedom of choice and that men want to rape or kill her and control her body, which is absolutely insane. — Cobra
Especially since you are making the argument these men exist in tangible reality as a commonality and interact with women often.
And this is why Dworkin is batshit crazy, because she attempts to argue that all men are sadists and instills false insecurity and false fears into otherwise, healthy women. — Cobra
Yes, because they are not getting laid and feel entitled to women's bodies. Then they make up a false scenario that women are depriving them intentionally and that men are an oppressed class because sex socialism is not a thing. — Cobra
Women do not dress conservatively to feel safe from men because they are men, they dress conservatively to avoid a specific small group of people that EXCLUSIVELY TARGET women to induce harm and/or unnecessary unwanted attention. — Cobra
When it comes to violence and sexual abuse there is no significant difference between the genders,in that other men, boys and children are also targets, sometimes exclusively, by this very same subset of deranged entitled sadistic men. The rape in male prison is sky high, precisely because this subset of the same men target others to inflict harm through entitlement. — Cobra
We could go into it a bit more if you are interested, but her views are not mine by any means. — unenlightened
A woman choosing to not sleep with you is not an act of revenge; you just feel so because you are drowned in entitlement. — Cobra
Matriarchy is a stage on the way to patriarchy, to man's fullest realization of himself; he goes from worshiping Nature through women to conquering it. Though it's true that woman's lot worsened considerably under patriarchy, she never had it good; for despite all the nostalgia it is not hard to prove that matriarchy was never an answer to women's fundamental oppression. Basically it was no more than a different means of counting lineage and inheritance, one which, though it might have held more advantages for women than the later patriarchy, did not allow women into the society as equals. To be worshiped is not freedom. For worship still takes place in someone else's head, and that head belongs to Man.
The objectification of women isn't solely the fault of men, nor of women, but both. — baker
What is crazy in this story is that men are always talking about their sexual misery, without ever realizing the misery they create in women. What do you think, guys? That we don't want to make love, that we don't want to be carried away by desire? Well, yes, we do! — Olivier5
Another 'theory' is that of Michel Houellebecq in his Elementary Particles: sexual liberation during the 60's and 70's led to high sexual competition between males, and between females, with the most attractive people screwing all their content and less attractive folks living in eternel sexual misery. Freedom leads to inequality between the haves and the haves not, now applied to sex as well.
The tittle of Houellebecq's first book is also about that: Extension of the Competitive Domain ie an extension of competition from the sphere of production and consumption (under capitalism) into the sphere of reproduction. Like an extension of capitalism to sex. — Olivier5
Finding a convincing explanation for the historical rise of fascism is an important task, still unfinished I think. — Olivier5
But women objectify themselves and other women in this same way. Pick up pretty much any "women's" magazine, book, tv show, seminar, webinar, and there it is: "see yourself as a piece of meat to be fucked".
It's a bit of a stretch to say that women do this because they are the poor victims of patriarchy. — baker
Refer to Bill Burr on reasons to hit a woman (comedy but it does highlight a problem). Is it naive to assume it is all about sexual domination as women can, and do, objectify men just as much as men objectify women - physically, dues to social status and intellect too. — I like sushi
It is too common a misconception that a woman chooses (or should choose) her action, clothing, etc as a direct and intentional response to the fears and desires of the men around her. So when a woman acts contrary to his desires, or fails to allay his fears, she presents as a chaotic force to be subdued by his efforts. — Possibility
The fact that a woman may be sufficiently self-aware to NOT feel the need to appear rationally unaffected does not give men permission to do so — Possibility
His inability or unwillingness to reason amidst his own fears or desires has nothing at all to do with women — Possibility
For women, according to the killer/husband, virginity is the highest state, an ideal; and a fall from viriginity is a fall into trivialization, into being used as a thing; one dresses up to be the thing; one does not have a full humanity but must conform to the rituals and conventions of debasement as a sexual object. But the reduction of humanity into being an object for sex carries with it the power to dominate men because men want the object and the sex. The rage against women as a group is particularly located here: women manipulate men by manipulating man's sexual desire; these trivial, mediocre things (women) have real power over men through sex.
[...]
This dominance of men by women is experienced by the men as real - emotionally real, sexually real, psychologically real; it emerges as the reason for the wrath of the misogynist.
[...]
[the killer/husband[ sees that powerlessness generates revenge, and revenge is what women accomplish in the sensuality he experiences as their dominance, his powerlessness.
[...]
'so it is with women: [...] 'Ah, you want us to be merely objects of sensuality - all right, as objects of sensuality we will enslave you.' — Dworkin, "Intercourse"
That assumes a whole lot of intentionality. I doubt such intentionality is there at all. — Tobias
I think the OP accurately tracks the thought process of victim-blaming and justification of rape but seems worryingly uncritical of it. — Cuthbert
Of course, this is usually a narrow view based more on the man themselves than the women. — Philosophim
Heaven would be nice, but I would be happy with oblivion, which would be, as Luther held (until the resurrection) merely as "sleep". — RolandTyme
But I cannot avoid my own death and it will come well before I am even close to "done" exploring life. That cannot be right, can it? Are these philosophies of finitude's bringing purpose/meaning just platitudes or wishful thinking? Isn't terror the natural and most justified human condition? — Yvonne
How are these topics related? — TiredThinker
Is anything ruled out and why? — Andrew4Handel
“But when Israeli apartheid is gone, it will be replaced by Palestinian apartheid. The solution to apartheid is not different apartheid. Until you offer a solution in which apartheid ends in Palestine/Israel entirely, you aren’t actually trying to end apartheid.” — Ennui Elucidator
The advent of agriculture had contributed to the decline in our intelligence. — L'éléphant
I know for a fact that my nonexistence before conception was temporary, otherwise I would have never been conceived. — Paul Michael
Self-actualization vicariously achieved much like how the super-rich in present times finance research (Bill Gates Foundation for example). — Agent Smith